foxbat Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 13 hours ago, Bobref said: There are also people who believe the earth is flat. I think many of them post in the Officiating Forum. 😀 Lord, I apologize for that there. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 5 hours ago, BTF said: On a much smaller scale. I've been going to games for a long time. When the two best teams in the sectional meet for the championship, the crowd difference is largely measurable. Your argument just doesn't hold water. LCC and Pioneer are probably the two biggest poster teams for this save for a couple of seasons ... and it doesn't even need to be the sectional championship.. Since 2001, they have ended each others' seasons 10 times in sectionals and twice in the regional. Also realize that, in four of those years between 2001 and now, they couldn't meet because LCC was in 2A when Pioneer was in 1A or Pioneer was in 2A when LCC was in 1A. On at least a couple of those occasions, LCC and Pioneer were ranked #1 and #2 in 1A by AP, Coaches, or both and on many of those, they were Top 10 ranked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XStar Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 3 hours ago, BTF said: I just hope that administrators and IHSAA officials around the state are following this topic so they understand how much revenue they are costing their athletic departments. Perhaps they are the ones that do understand and not you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, XStar said: Perhaps they are the ones that do understand and not you? It occurs to me that we have an awful lot of smart athletic directors in this state. If changing the system by seeding were likely to result in significantly increased revenue, in these times of tight budgets somebody would be out there beating the drum for it. I don’t get that sense. I’m not saying there aren’t changes to be made that would be revenue positive. Just saying it’s apparently not “obvious” to a lot of people who should be paying attention to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, XStar said: Perhaps they are the ones that do understand and not you? Clearly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 36 minutes ago, Bobref said: It occurs to me that we have an awful lot of smart athletic directors in this state. If changing the system by seeding were likely to result in significantly increased revenue, in these times of tight budgets somebody would be out there beating the drum for it. I don’t get that sense. I’m not saying there aren’t changes to be made that would be revenue positive. Just saying it’s apparently not “obvious” to a lot of people who should be paying attention to it. I'm not questioning the intellect of anyone. I just think many are satisfied with the status quo. Why stir the pot when it's easier not to. Some even have the mindset of "let's do what is easiest." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XStar Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, BTF said: I'm not questioning the intellect of anyone. I just think many are satisfied with the status quo. Why stir the pot when it's easier not to. Some even have the mindset of "let's do what is easiest." So now you're questioning their effort rather than their intelligence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, XStar said: So now you're questioning their effort rather than their intelligence? Re-read my last post, think about it, and get back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojanmp52 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 In truth i do not think it lack of effort or intelligence. I just think most people like it the way it is. I have read on here over the years that you need to seed it so 1 and 2 are on the opposite side. And I can understand why that is, but you also have a lot people that like the fact the there 3 and 6 team has a chance against the 1and 8 team and can get one or two more weeks of playing and practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XStar Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, BTF said: Re-read my last post, think about it, and get back to me. Done. So now you're questioning their effort rather than their intelligence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan32 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 On 10/6/2021 at 7:49 PM, XStar said: When Lewis Cass and Pioneer played in the first round of the playoffs in 2019 when they were two of the top teams in all of 2A, the stands weren't exactly empty. If Brebeuf and West Lafayette square off in the first round this year, I'll probably go to that game and then find another good game in other sectionals in northern Indiana in the subsequent rounds of the sectional. In fact, having a blind draw usually generates great games in every round of the sectional instead of clustering them all in one weekend. Big games = big crowds no matter when they are played. So why do you oppose seeding number 1 and 2 on opposite sides of the bracket if you are going to go to the "good" games no matter when they are played? I have to admit I haven't read every post in this thread. Not being cute just trying to understand why that would even matter to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jets Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 What about the fact of adding VALUE to a good regular season?? Shouldn't that at least mean SOMETHING?? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 8 hours ago, jets said: What about the fact of adding VALUE to a good regular season?? Shouldn't that at least mean SOMETHING?? " An excellent point that many gloss over. Seeding not only makes the tournament better, but it’s primary value is in making the 9 week exhibition season relevant to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XStar Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Titan32 said: So why do you oppose seeding number 1 and 2 on opposite sides of the bracket if you are going to go to the "good" games no matter when they are played? I have to admit I haven't read every post in this thread. Not being cute just trying to understand why that would even matter to you. It doesn't change who gets the trophy and the current way allows for there to be 1 v 2 games in every round of the sectional as opposed to just the last one which I like better as a fan. Also let me clarify, it's not as much that I'm opposed to seeding it as I don't think there's a great way to do it and it also doesn't solve the much bigger problem when there are two top teams in the same sectional. So we're worried about the West Lafayette and Brebeuf playing 1 or 2 weeks too early as opposed to 4-5 weeks too early. Edited October 8, 2021 by XStar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XStar Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Bobref said: An excellent point that many gloss over. Seeding not only makes the tournament better, but it’s primary value is in making the 9 week exhibition season relevant to the playoffs. Depends on how the seeding is determined. If all we get is teams trying to schedule as easily as possible because all 9-0's are better than 8-1's or 7-2's then seeding would do a disservice to the regular season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan32 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, XStar said: It doesn't change who gets the trophy and the current way allows for there to be 1 v 2 games in every round of the sectional as opposed to just the last one which I like better as a fan. Also let me clarify, it's not as much that I'm opposed to seeding it as I don't think there's a great way to do it and it also doesn't solve the much bigger problem when there are two top teams in the same sectional. So we're worried about the West Lafayette and Brebeuf playing 1 or 2 weeks too early as opposed to 4-5 weeks too early. I just think it is a travesty for the second best team in a sectional to only get to play 10 games that season. I have seen it too many times. It is simply heartbreaking for those kids. It is such an easy fix to eliminate that one issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, Titan32 said: I just think it is a travesty for the second best team in a sectional to only get to play 10 games that season. I have seen it too many times. It is simply heartbreaking for those kids. It is such an easy fix to eliminate that one issue. You hit the nail on the head. If you're the second best team in the sectional, you've more than likely put in the work to get yourself there. It should be rewarded. Instead, the two worst teams in the sectional match up against one another and one earns the right to move on while a program that worked harder packs their equipment and calls it a season. Now, there's certain someone who'll come on here and accuse me of questioning the work ethic of certain high school football programs. It's like anything else in life and it's a lesson learned. The harder you work, the higher the performance. That's true with anything in life, sports or otherwise. There should always be a reward for performance, but the IHSAA doesn't see it that way with the blind draw. My guess is it's just "easier" to pull names out of a hat than it is to determine a seeding method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XStar Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 25 minutes ago, Titan32 said: I just think it is a travesty for the second best team in a sectional to only get to play 10 games that season. I have seen it too many times. It is simply heartbreaking for those kids. It is such an easy fix to eliminate that one issue. And I don't think it's that big of a deal at all. If we're not even worried about a team getting robbed out an opportunity to win sectional/regional/semistate trophies because they aren't being seeded across the entire class, then I'm certainly not concerned about a team possibly losing just an extra game or two. At the end of the day, it's a high school sporting event. I can think of many things more worthy of the "travesty" label than a team getting 10 games instead of 11 or 12 (which goes to other teams instead) based on preconceived notions regarding the ability of those teams before a tournament designed expressly to reflect just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XStar Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, BTF said: Now, there's certain someone who'll come on here and accuse me of questioning the work ethic of certain high school football programs. It's like anything else in life and it's a lesson learned. The harder you work, the higher the performance. That's true with anything in life, sports or otherwise. There should always be a reward for performance, but the IHSAA doesn't see it that way with the blind draw. My guess is it's just "easier" to pull names out of a hat than it is to determine a seeding method. No. You questioned the work ethic of high school AD's for not adopting your bad idea because you think they are simply settling for what's easiest because you can't fathom why people think this isn't the big deal you think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan32 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, XStar said: And I don't think it's that big of a deal at all. If we're not even worried about a team getting robbed out an opportunity to win sectional/regional/semistate trophies because they aren't being seeded across the entire class, then I'm certainly not concerned about a team possibly losing just an extra game or two. At the end of the day, it's a high school sporting event. I can think of many things more worthy of the "travesty" label than a team getting 10 games instead of 11 or 12 (which goes to other teams instead) based on preconceived notions regarding the ability of those teams before a tournament designed expressly to reflect just that. I understand some sectionals are their own travesty (I get the feeling that is what bugs you the most), that is a separate issue. Let's fix this easy one...then move on to that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jets Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Titan32 said: I understand some sectionals are their own travesty (I get the feeling that is what bugs you the most), that is a separate issue. Let's fix this easy one...then move on to that one. 100% - we get it Mr. X - some sectionals are loaded while others are not. We have that issue down here as well believe it or not (here's looking at you Sectional 30) ...but like 32 said, let's just fix the most simple one first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 2 hours ago, XStar said: No. You questioned the work ethic of high school AD's for not adopting your bad idea because you think they are simply settling for what's easiest because you can't fathom why people think this isn't the big deal you think it is. Presenting ideas to increase the overall revenue of high school athletics is never a bad idea. Shame on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miner_Pride Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 I hate this non-seeding crap. I lost count of how many times we (Linton) would be 9-0 or 8-1 or 7-2 and would draw Perry Central at either 9-0, 8-1 0r 7-2 in round 1 class a sect 40. and then the other dark horse.. usually N Daviess at 7-2 or 6-3 or 8-1 would be the other game in the same bracket... meanwhile the other bracket loaded with 1-8, 2-7, 3-6 and 0-9 team... Yeah I get that you gotta beat the best to get further, but in terms of the kids themselves they get rewarded for a great season (and yes I get that teams can schedule weakly aiming for a higher seed.... so no... I don't think Won-Loss necessarily means higher seed.. i.e.. .Mater Dei in Sect 40 2A)... but these kids can be eliminated in round 1 and sit while the weak teams delay themselves the inevitable meeting with the powerhouse... and yep..there is always a chance to pull the upset... but why not have that chance in round 1.... There can be no argument that in terms of gate... the ihsaa misses out where they blow these monster matchups in round 1 or round 2... I mean.. in our neck of the woods.. usually only 1 area team is still battling... and when you bring in a big sectional final it attracts everyone from every corner out to see it in person. Nobody cares if 11-1 North Smith County is facing 2-10 West Pancake County for a sectional crown... unless WPC has knocked off 9-2 perennial secional winner St. Robert Catholic in the prevous round.... i hate non seeding.. and I know it will have flaws but over all it is a better thing for the players and the fans and the ihsaa... Mater Dei will be the Sectional 40 2A Favorites no matter what anybody else does in that sectional may.. may be 9-0 going into it... (South Putnam is gonna be a big game next week)... I don't care if MD loses 4 or 5 regular season games... they will be favorite. So Sagarin number will change those feelings for most people. Linton does not play Evansville Central or North or Reitz, Memorial or Castle.... If we did.. we'd have lost many more games. It just is what it is. Sectional 40 would be a good example of the odd seeding because based on WL or Sagarin.. MD wouldn't be a top seed... but in reality they are the top seed. Maybe some years they wouldn't be... but clearly.. they are this year. How to work around that? I just hate to see the top two teams in any sectional...especially when they are clearly the top two.... get stuck in the opening round... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XStar Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, BTF said: Presenting ideas to increase the overall revenue of high school athletics is never a bad idea. Shame on you. High school athletics is not a for-profit function. Always consider the best interest of the kids above all else. Shame ON YOU. Edited October 8, 2021 by XStar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinePrint Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 If the ultimate goal is to increase revenues, then stagger the games so everyone could attend all sectional games. Play one on Thursday night, one on Friday night and two on Saturday (afternoon and evening). Then people could attend ALL the sectional games and the revenue would increase significantly. Right? And you also solve the officiating shortage by making it possible for crews to work multiple games. There you go. Revenue problem solved! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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