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The Gridiron Digest

Are we in a new 2-year Success Factor window?


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3 hours ago, XStar said:

South is the way to go in 2A.  No Luers.  No Andrean.  No Eastbrook.  No Pioneer.  No RC or Lewis Cass.  No Tipton.  No Bremen. 

What's left in the south now?  Mater Dei?  Triton Central?  Heritage Christian?  Scecina?  

Although I think the last 6 titles were won by the team from the south, I think the last 5 of those are in 3A now in Western Boone, Southridge, and Ritter.  And Monrovia has gone to 3A and come back to 2A since then.

So 2A south has been dominate... despite the yearly chant of how good the north is.... seems to me if u throw out Luers.... 2A is pretty much a free 4 all statewide..... i agree w foxy that Lcc will b favored in sec 37 this yr ..... but r not goin to State this yr.... as they only go to State in yrs they win it.... 😆

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1 hour ago, BendNotBreak said:

So 2A south has been dominate... despite the yearly chant of how good the north is.... seems to me if u throw out Luers.... 2A is pretty much a free 4 all statewide..... i agree w foxy that Lcc will b favored in sec 37 this yr ..... but r not goin to State this yr.... as they only go to State in yrs they win it.... 😆

The reasons the south has won ............are all sitting in 3A right now...........don't like my analysis.......just look at the rankings

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6 minutes ago, XStar said:

The reasons the south has won ............are all sitting in 3A right now...........don't like my analysis.......just look at the rankings

Jus questioning the rankings... wasnt WeBo n Soutridge the dog? Ritter is 3A by enrollment now? Cant remember abt Monrovia....  Has Eastbrook Tipton Cass ever won State? RC had that magnificent Team.... jus sayin... -Luers ... whos to say MD Lipton or HC wouldnt win it this yr?  Jus dont c another dominate team in the North this yr is all im sayin.....

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1 hour ago, BendNotBreak said:

Jus questioning the rankings... wasnt WeBo n Soutridge the dog? Ritter is 3A by enrollment now? Cant remember abt Monrovia....  Has Eastbrook Tipton Cass ever won State? RC had that magnificent Team.... jus sayin... -Luers ... whos to say MD Lipton or HC wouldnt win it this yr?  Jus dont c another dominate team in the North this yr is all im sayin.....

Cass is a bridesmaid, Tipton is a three-time bridesmaid, and Eastbrook is a four-time bridesmaid.  Monrovia has been bride and bridesmaid.

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21 hours ago, fenderbender said:

It is baffling to me why they put them in the same sectional.   If one wanted to guarantee Chatard to stay in 4A forever, they would put them in another one.  (Though there is every chance they could beat Roncalli two years in a row and stay up.)  Or maybe they think Roncalli will move up to 5A and then Chatard wins that sectional every year and stays up.

 

They are in the same county. Generally, traditional rivals and schools within a county are grouped together in a sectional. 

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21 hours ago, Lysander said:

I said the same thing last year.  Still, the instinct to knock a perennial Catholic power out in a Sectional is just too strong to resist for the IHSAA versus taking the long view.

It wouldn’t (or won’t) be any different if Roncalli and Cathedral were in the same class….in fact we saw it just a few years ago. Roncalli and Cathedral were paired in Sectional and New Pal (who is literally next door to Roncalli) was sent North. 

New Pal is not "literally next door to Roncalli." It's a good 15-20-minute drive between the schools. And more importantly, they are in different counties. Roncalli's sectional included the two other 5A Marion County schools - Cathedral and Decatur Central. New Palestine's sectional included Greenfield-Central (a conference and county rival), plus Anderson and Muncie Central - the only two other 5A schools east of Indianapolis that didn't fit neatly into any other field. Those four schools are in contiguous counties and also currently in the same basketball sectional. You had to put four teams together and those four made perfect geographic sense. Zionsville was also moved into that sectional despite being not really a geographic fit. 

Understanding how the IHSAA has historically grouped sectionals going back 100 years helps. They almost *never* split up county rivals or traditional rivals unless there's an issue where there's 9 teams in one natural grouping and 7 in another (or 5/3 in 5A/6A). 

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1 hour ago, crimsonace1 said:

New Pal is not "literally next door to Roncalli." It's a good 15-20-minute drive between the schools. And more importantly, they are in different counties. Roncalli's sectional included the two other 5A Marion County schools - Cathedral and Decatur Central. New Palestine's sectional included Greenfield-Central (a conference and county rival), plus Anderson and Muncie Central - the only two other 5A schools east of Indianapolis that didn't fit neatly into any other field. Those four schools are in contiguous counties and also currently in the same basketball sectional. You had to put four teams together and those four made perfect geographic sense. Zionsville was also moved into that sectional despite being not really a geographic fit. 

Understanding how the IHSAA has historically grouped sectionals going back 100 years helps. They almost *never* split up county rivals or traditional rivals unless there's an issue where there's 9 teams in one natural grouping and 7 in another (or 5/3 in 5A/6A). 

You’re a good dude.  Heard this “blah…blah” legalistic stuff before….sorry.  

Still….not buying.  Even 30 some odd years post law school I can still flog most any position enthusiastically.   Still, some things are to obvious to ignore….and, yet, someone will always validate them.

Sectional 28 ALONE tells me everything I EVER needed to know as regards the IHSAA and fairness (specifically as regards Catholic schools) in Sectional pairings.

After that, everything else is smoke, mirrors and ABSOLUTE BS.

Not that Bobby Cox has anything to do with things these days but I shared a Butler U track locker room with him roughly 40 years ago.  No way he is drilling down the way you just did.

Again…Sectional 28 says it all.

In Indy, Chatard, Cathedral and Roncalli will be paired whenever and wherever possible….PERIOD.  

We accept it….but we expect folks to not blow smoke up our posteriors and tell us it’s somehow fair.

 

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15 hours ago, foxbat said:

Cass is a bridesmaid, Tipton is a three-time bridesmaid, and Eastbrook is a four-time bridesmaid.  Monrovia has been bride and bridesmaid.

Yep.... i went bac 21yrs..  Luers 7 the North 3 .... 2A south 11...  of those 7 Luers wins.. im sure all would hav been won by the North runner up... cough cough.... Ther is a bias toward the North... always been that way... the further North u live the better u r.... everyone knows Ky peeps r better than TN ... n IN better than KY peeps.... n MI peeps better than IN.... 😆

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1 hour ago, BendNotBreak said:

Yep.... i went bac 21yrs..  Luers 7 the North 3 .... 2A south 11...  of those 7 Luers wins.. im sure all would hav been won by the North runner up... cough cough.... Ther is a bias toward the North... always been that way... the further North u live the better u r.... everyone knows Ky peeps r better than TN ... n IN better than KY peeps.... n MI peeps better than IN.... 😆

2014 would have been won by the North runner-up. 😉

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On 10/8/2021 at 11:41 AM, Lysander said:

In Indy, Chatard, Cathedral and Roncalli will be paired whenever and wherever possible….PERIOD.  

We accept it….but we expect folks to not blow smoke up our posteriors and tell us it’s somehow fair.

 

Yes, they will be. Get out a map of the state and it's pretty easy to tell why. 

Again, the IHSAA almost never splits up traditional rivals and especially schools from the same county. There is no "parochial school exemption." 

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On 10/9/2021 at 12:55 PM, WestfieldRocks said:

So Cathedral bumps back to 4A, their enrollment class? That would be a joke.

Oh I completely agree with you.  I was simply poking fun at the Pioneer Individual who suggested bumping everyone to their enrollment class.  Considering Pioneer should have been in the 2A State Finals last year I think it's comical to suggest that they move back to 1A

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14 hours ago, Redsfan35 said:

So in a nutshell, should Roncalli win state this year, will they move up a class for two years?

My understanding is no.  First title was in another classification period.

Win state and regional next year and they move up.

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1 hour ago, fenderbender said:

My understanding is no.  First title was in another classification period.

Win state and regional next year and they move up.

That’s certainly my take…and would be the normal result.

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On 10/8/2021 at 10:30 AM, crimsonace1 said:

New Pal is not "literally next door to Roncalli." It's a good 15-20-minute drive between the schools. And more importantly, they are in different counties. Roncalli's sectional included the two other 5A Marion County schools - Cathedral and Decatur Central. New Palestine's sectional included Greenfield-Central (a conference and county rival), plus Anderson and Muncie Central - the only two other 5A schools east of Indianapolis that didn't fit neatly into any other field. Those four schools are in contiguous counties and also currently in the same basketball sectional. You had to put four teams together and those four made perfect geographic sense. Zionsville was also moved into that sectional despite being not really a geographic fit. 

Understanding how the IHSAA has historically grouped sectionals going back 100 years helps. They almost *never* split up county rivals or traditional rivals unless there's an issue where there's 9 teams in one natural grouping and 7 in another (or 5/3 in 5A/6A). 

Wow 15-20 minutes? Do they hit the rest park to whiz on the way?

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8 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

I was told at the end  of last year, by someone I consider a credible source, that Cathedral would be in 5A for two more years.  You can take that for what's it's worth.

That seems to support the classification periods as I understand them.  I think the hold in enrollment based classification changes has everyone a little unsure of what will happen.

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2 hours ago, fenderbender said:

That seems to support the classification periods as I understand them.  I think the hold in enrollment based classification changes has everyone a little unsure of what will happen.

I really don't pay much attention to the classification until the next season begins after what Bobby Cox pulled on Cathedral a couple of years ago.  A team can go up or down on a moment's notice, or so it seems.

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On 10/8/2021 at 12:03 PM, gonzoron said:

No they aren't.

 

Key word in Crimson Ace's statement was "traditionally".  And in the days of pre-class basketball it was certainly true.  It's how the likes of Kokomo (who had every other small Howard county school in it's sectional along with the likes of Maconaquah)  and Vincennes Lincoln (similar demographic as Kokomo) are up there as the all time leaders in pre-class sectional championships.

 

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3 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Key word in Crimson Ace's statement was "traditionally".

That wasn't a word in his statement. Try again.

On 10/8/2021 at 10:24 AM, crimsonace1 said:

traditional rivals and schools within a county are grouped together

 

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On 10/14/2021 at 10:10 PM, PHJIrish said:

I was told at the end  of last year, by someone I consider a credible source, that Cathedral would be in 5A for two more years.  You can take that for what's it's worth.

IHSAA is taking success factor points from 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 seasons. Baring a miracle, looks like Cathedral will be 6A next year from success factor points.

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