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Are we in a new 2-year Success Factor window?


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1 hour ago, Indiana Fan said:

IHSAA is taking success factor points from 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 seasons. Baring a miracle, looks like Cathedral will be 6A next year from success factor points.

Where did you hear this?   Success factor is not a rolling two year period.

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I get what you mean now.  It's two years, but not rolling.  Which is the only real issue I have with Success Factor.  NP won 5A in 2018 and 2019, but they were in two different two year cycles, so no bump up to 6A.  Not sure how you fix it though.

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2 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

I get what you mean now.  It's two years, but not rolling.  Which is the only real issue I have with Success Factor.  NP won 5A in 2018 and 2019, but they were in two different two year cycles, so no bump up to 6A.  Not sure how you fix it though.

I agree that success factor two year rolling may seem fair at first glance.   Would be interesting to go back and see what differences would be rolling vs current format.  

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18 hours ago, gonzoron said:

That wasn't a word in his statement. Try again.

 

My comment still stands regardless of "traditionally", "historically", or "traditional rivals".  Thanks for the correction, Mr. English Major.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

My comment still stands regardless of "traditionally", "historically", or "traditional rivals".  Thanks for the correction, Mr. English Major.

 

 

 

I'm no English major. I just make sure if I quote someone, I use the actual words they used. Otherwise it's libel.

I know you have no such standards as evidenced by your past history of twisting the words of others to suit your agenda.

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34 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

I'm no English major. I just make sure if I quote someone, I use the actual words they used. Otherwise it's libel.

Evidently, you’re not much of a lawyer, either. 🤣😂

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56 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

I'm no English major. I just make sure if I quote someone, I use the actual words they used. Otherwise it's libel.

I know you have no such standards as evidenced by your past history of twisting the words of others to suit your agenda.

I love you too.

 

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23 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

IHSAA is taking success factor points from 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 seasons. Baring a miracle, looks like Cathedral will be 6A next year from success factor points.

You might be correct, but that's not what I was told, by someone I believe is a reliable source.  Anyway, we will find out in a couple months.

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1 hour ago, PHJIrish said:

You might be correct, but that's not what I was told, by someone I believe is a reliable source.  Anyway, we will find out in a couple months.

From my understanding, this was an extra year given. An extended year. The new enrollments will be released and new classifications will start. Success factor points will go from last season and this season.

I personally do think what the IHSAA released was a bit confusing, but this is what they said and I also heard from a reliable source this as well.

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18 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

You might be correct, but that's not what I was told, by someone I believe is a reliable source.  Anyway, we will find out in a couple months.

The IHSAA released a memo in April about this.  Not sure why everybody keeps denying it.

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2 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

The IHSAA released a memo in April about this.  Not sure why everybody keeps denying it.

So spent a lot of time reading the memo to make sure I pulled out the right information.   

Here is what I think I know:

1.  The next two year cycle is 2022-23 and 2023-24 school years.

2.  Points earned in 2020-21 and 2021-22 will be applied to  success factor determinations.

Winners:  Evansville Memorial, New Pal as long as they don't win regional, they drop a class

Draw:  Southridge, Pioneer they stay up because of last season.   Were probably staying up anyway.

Going up:  Cathedral, Roncalli, Luers,

South Adams, Danville, and Hobart go up if they go to semistate.

 

 

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1 hour ago, fenderbender said:

So spent a lot of time reading the memo to make sure I pulled out the right information.   

Here is what I think I know:

1.  The next two year cycle is 2022-23 and 2023-24 school years.

2.  Points earned in 2020-21 and 2021-22 will be applied to  success factor determinations.

Winners:  Evansville Memorial, New Pal as long as they don't win regional, they drop a class

Draw:  Southridge, Pioneer they stay up because of last season.   Were probably staying up anyway.

Going up:  Cathedral, Roncalli, Luers,

South Adams, Danville, and Hobart go up if they go to semistate.

 

 

So given this reading, teams that were moved up this year could stay up based on points in previous classes as opposed to new class?

Would LCC also be in that grouping of going down if they don't win a regional?  LCC had 6 points total ... 4 for 1A state in 2019 and 2 for 1A regional in 2020.  They bumped up to 2A this season.  Assuming they don't get out of sectionals, they would have 2 points ... all earned in 1A.  The general ruling for SF is you need 2 or or more to STAY in a class if you were bumped up.  Does that mean that LCC automatically stays in 2A regardless of what they've done in 2A based on the 2 points earned in 1A or is the IHSAA going to say that 2 of LCC's points in the 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons were earned in 1A with none earned in 2A therefore LCC moves back down?  Or stated another way, LCC has to pick up a regional win, 2 points, to stay in 2A?

In the case of SA, Danville, and Hobart they are all playing with "like" class points ... all 1A, all 3A, and all 4A respectively.  Similarly Cathedral is playing with all 5A points, as are Roncalli who is playing with all 4A points, and Luers who is playing with all 2A points.  Memorial is playing with all 4A points and New Pal is playing with all 5A points.  LCC seems to be playing with mixed-class points.

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17 minutes ago, foxbat said:

So given this reading, teams that were moved up this year could stay up based on points in previous classes as opposed to new class?

 

Not sure how to answer that question.   Is LCC the only case where this applies?   

I tend to be very litteral when interpreting the rules.   They don't have two points in their new class, so that seems to imply they would drop.  Probably a scenario the IHSAA did not consider when they made the ruling.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, fenderbender said:

So spent a lot of time reading the memo to make sure I pulled out the right information.   

Here is what I think I know:

1.  The next two year cycle is 2022-23 and 2023-24 school years.

2.  Points earned in 2020-21 and 2021-22 will be applied to  success factor determinations.

Winners:  Evansville Memorial, New Pal as long as they don't win regional, they drop a class

Draw:  Southridge, Pioneer they stay up because of last season.   Were probably staying up anyway.

Going up:  Cathedral, Roncalli, Luers,

South Adams, Danville, and Hobart go up if they go to semistate.

 

 

I could be wrong but I think EVERYONE is at 0 points at this stage.  This year is Year 1 of the 2 Year Success Factor Cycle.

Again, could be wrong, but otherwise we are in the midst of rolling cycles - which we have never had (although I think we should be using rolling cycles).  Unless the IHSAA is now saying we have switched to rolling cycles.

Maybe they are…..I remain……confused.

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8 minutes ago, Lysander said:

I could be wrong but I think EVERYONE is at 0 points at this stage.  This year is Year 1 of the 2 Year Success Factor Cycle.

Again, could be wrong, but otherwise we are in the midst of rolling cycles - which we have never had (although I think we should be using rolling cycles).  Unless the IHSAA is now saying we have switched to rolling cycles.

Maybe they are…..I remain……confused.

I was on board with you, but that is not what this says:

 

image.png.ca0bbdba44671a674b9405eb0a371969.png

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34 minutes ago, Lysander said:

I could be wrong but I think EVERYONE is at 0 points at this stage.  This year is Year 1 of the 2 Year Success Factor Cycle.

Again, could be wrong, but otherwise we are in the midst of rolling cycles - which we have never had (although I think we should be using rolling cycles).  Unless the IHSAA is now saying we have switched to rolling cycles.

Maybe they are…..I remain……confused.

And I have no idea what this means for LCC and Chatard.

 

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31 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

And I have no idea what this means for LCC and Chatard.

I think this addition to the SF rule may have been done to address the issue...

2-5 Reclassification of Schools in Team Sports Due to Previous Tournament Series Success In Team Sports, when Schools are subject to reclassification, a School’s reclassification shall be dependent on the School’s previous tournament series success; the Commissioner may, however, determine that a School’s previous tournament series success should be applied more often, or less often. 

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52 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

I was on board with you, but that is not what this says:

 

image.png.ca0bbdba44671a674b9405eb0a371969.png

Copy that.  It appears I’m wrong but, that being the case, it would appear that schools like Cathedral, Roncalli and Luers will still need to acquire enough points this year to total 6 before they move up.  

Basically, it IS rolling for this year and last year….not sure about afterwards.  Still, makes me wonder if the IHSAA has fully thought through the ramifications.  I’m betting not all the schools are clear on this.  I’m certainly not.

 

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20 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Copy that.  It appears I’m wrong but, that being the case, it would appear that schools like Cathedral, Roncalli and Luers will still need to acquire enough points this year to total 6 before they move up.  

Basically, it IS rolling for this year and last year….not sure about afterwards.  Still, makes me wonder if the IHSAA has fully thought through the ramifications.  I’m betting not all the schools are clear on this.  I’m certainly not.

 

And this was really buried under the headline of enrollment based reclassification freeze.

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2 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

And this was really buried under the headline of enrollment reclassification freeze.

Yeah….I just don’t think everyone realizes what appears to be happening.  

To me, this ought to be a question that the media needs to fairly quickly address with the Commissioner….and to explore it in some depth.  A good many sports at a good many schools are going to be significantly touched by it….and it’s still less than clear.

You mentioned the situation with Chatard which implies that if Chatard somehow won a Regional in 4A (admittedly, unlikely this year) that it’s now in 5A because it acquired 4 pts last year and would get 2 points for a Regional win…resulting in a total of 6 points.  As much as I might think that would be cool,  I can’t imagine that that is the intent (but technically that appears to be what it says).
 

 

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On 10/20/2021 at 2:13 PM, fenderbender said:

And I have no idea what this means for LCC and Chatard.

 

Here's the way I understand it. 

2020-21 and 2021-22 are the two-year cycle. So points earned last year and this will count toward reclassification for hte next two years. In summer 2022, all points reset to zero and a new cycle begins. 

The sticky wicket is LCC & Chatard. Teams that got bumped this year, I think, only accumulate SF points in their current class (so, for example, if LCC or Chatard wins a regional, they'll stay up, but they can't get the 6 points necessary to bump up to 3A/5A).

I'm not sure what happens if they *don't* get the two points necessary, but I assume they'll go back to their natural enrollment classes. Curious if they win a sectional and the IHSAA decides to keep them up for the next two years saying that would be similar to winning two sectional titles in the old system. 

COVID has created a lot of really weird dynamics and extending the cycle by one extra year (while also bumping teams due to SF without a reclassification) is one of them. It's also led to a three-team sectional in 6A, which means someone is going to play Nov. 5 after *two* weeks off. But once we get through this year, everything should go back to normal next summer. 

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I like to think of myself as fairly educated- I read this whole thread and still have no clue what is going on?!?! 

Last year, we won a sectional and regional so we were told we acquired enough points to stay in 3A for another 2 years (stupid) 

But at the end of this year- they are wiping the slate clean and just going by enrollment?? 

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