Playoff Roster Size Limit Logic

[FCGriz]

Can someone explain the logic of limiting roster size for the playoffs?  This seems to penalize some players who have worked hard all season in a time when football participation is down.  For example, even though Roncalli has its smallest roster size in 20 years (92 players in 10-12), they have to leave 25 or so players at home each playoff game.  Those guys would likely have seen action in the first round or two. 

[BDGiant93]

3 minutes ago, FCGriz said:

Can someone explain the logic of limiting roster size for the playoffs?  This seems to penalize some players who have worked hard all season in a time when football participation is down.  For example, even though Roncalli has its smallest roster size in 20 years (92 players in 10-12), they have to leave 25 or so players at home each playoff game.  Those guys would likely have seen action in the first round or two. 

Exactly for that reason, I gather. 

[oldtimeqb]

I have heard it has to do with the state finals.  As in the IHSAA doesn't want to pay (or has only budgeted) for 75 blue/red medals for each class.  This could just be speculation though.

And you could make the argument for other sports as well.  Many schools have more than 15 basketball players and 22 baseball players (I think those are the limits.)

75 "Varsity" football players, which is what the roster is comprised of, is a good number.  

[Irishman]

They do initially order 75 medals for the finals. Schools can order more though after they have won. It seems at one time, when Bobby Cox was still commissioner, the reasoning was to keep things equal for both teams in a game. The appearance of one team having so many more players than the other, even though they are in the same class, can be "intimidating". I never bought that and think it's time to get past it and just allow full rosters to dress. The single most difficult thing to do as a coach in the playoffs, is to pick kids who should or should not dress for a game. It is absolutely gut wrenching. 

[temptation]

16 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

I have heard it has to do with the state finals.  As in the IHSAA doesn't want to pay (or has only budgeted) for 75 blue/red medals for each class.  This could just be speculation though.

And you could make the argument for other sports as well.  Many schools have more than 15 basketball players and 22 baseball players (I think those are the limits.)

75 "Varsity" football players, which is what the roster is comprised of, is a good number.  

This would not surprise me and I’ve actually heard something similar.  Now I’m pretty sure that the schools can order extra medals out of pocket after the fact, no?

I’d assume that’s what many schools do as many of the mega schools seem to have 25+ coaches.

How about this one?  The boys and girls cross country state finals are this weekend in Terre Haute and each coach is limited to “up to 18 athletes” for its tournament roster (7 actually participate)…

However, the IHSAA only allows 10 per roster to get in with passes.  Any athletes betting that number must pay their way into the event.

[oldtimeqb]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

This would not surprise me and I’ve actually heard something similar.  Now I’m pretty sure that the schools can order extra medals out of pocket after the fact, no?

I’d assume that’s what many schools do as many of the mega schools seem to have 25+ coaches.

How about this one?  The boys and girls cross country state finals are this weekend in Terre Haute and each coach is limited to “up to 18 athletes” for its tournament roster (7 actually participate)…

However, the IHSAA only allows 10 per roster to get in with passes.  Any athletes betting that number must pay their way into the event.

I was aware that the state will allow schools to purchase additional medals out of pocket, after the fact.  Which is kind of my point, that the state wants to plan on a max of 75 per team for postgame ceremony distribution purposes.  It seems game 2 and 3 are always cutting it close to kick-off or a little after - unless Jack Kiser is playing in the 1A game and it's over quickly. LOL 

I'm far from defending the IHSAA on this one.  I'm just saying I can see their argument, even if I don't necessarily agree. 

 

[Bash Riprock]

Is the roster limit the same for 1A through 6A?  If so, that doesn't feel right......

[Irishman]

10 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Is the roster limit the same for 1A through 6A?  If so, that doesn't feel right......

yep....just has a max limit; no adjustment for classes. 

[Bash Riprock]

2 minutes ago, Irishman said:

yep....just has a max limit; no adjustment for classes. 

thanks Irish.  I would hope the ISHAA would look at that.  There is a reason for classes based on enrollment.....My guess is that the state has many schools that don't reach 75 roster max and many schools that have to make tough decisions to reduce their rosters.  I am not advocating for 6 roster sizes...but I bet they could come up with 2 or 3 limits that make a little more sense.

[ragdoll]

bobby cox............ enough said, although a systemic crisis of equal blame I suspect. Infinite wisdom of IHSAA..............

[Olympian06]

Maybe it would really help get this “Quarter Limit” situation under control..  it’s really running out of control at this point 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Trojanmp52]

I know this only effects a small about of teams but I have always hated this rule but it still has to be followed.  Some times you have seniors that do not get to dress on what could be thier last game.

[FCGriz]

I know that Roncalli coaches hate this rule since they have to decide who will sit out each game.  For the Royals game last week, they sat the "higher numbered sophomores".  Tonight against Lebanon they will sit the "lower numbered sophomores".  I do know that Roncalli purchases extra medals and championship rings for the entire 10-12 roster.  

[CaptainHook]

I was under the impression teams must submit 75 players that will dress for the playoffs.  You don't get to submit a new 75 each week.

 

I have heard the reason for this is to prevent a "move-in" once the playoffs begin?

[Irishman]

11 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

I was under the impression teams must submit 75 players that will dress for the playoffs.  You don't get to submit a new 75 each week.

 

I have heard the reason for this is to prevent a "move-in" once the playoffs begin?

That is correct...roster adjustments after the sectional roster is submitted is about a  $200 "fine" per move I believe. 

[FCGriz]

1 hour ago, CaptainHook said:

I was under the impression teams must submit 75 players that will dress for the playoffs.  You don't get to submit a new 75 each week.

 

I have heard the reason for this is to prevent a "move-in" once the playoffs begin?

Must be expensive for Roncalli since they rotate sophomores each game.  They sit a different 25 players each playoff game.  First game it was high numbered sophs then this week it was low numbered sophomores.  

[FCGriz]

1 hour ago, CaptainHook said:

I was under the impression teams must submit 75 players that will dress for the playoffs.  You don't get to submit a new 75 each week.

 

I have heard the reason for this is to prevent a "move-in" once the playoffs begin?

I am sure that Roncalli submitted the full varsity roster of 92 players and they can pick the 65 that they want to dress for each game, as long as they do not dress someone who is not on the full roster of 92.

 

[Grover]

I have yet to hear a good reason for the rule.

[CaptainHook]

1 hour ago, FCGriz said:

I am sure that Roncalli submitted the full varsity roster of 92 players and they can pick the 65 that they want to dress for each game, as long as they do not dress someone who is not on the full roster of 92.

 

I have been told it is not supposed to work that way. Fine per player to make changes.

 

I find it hard to believe anybody is paying those fines. Just rotating players. Maybe I’m wrong.

[Whiting89]

32 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

I have been told it is not supposed to work that way. Fine per player to make changes.

 

I find it hard to believe anybody is paying those fines. Just rotating players. Maybe I’m wrong.

Maybe they have a tuition surcharge for underclass football players?

[sr1]

3 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

I was under the impression teams must submit 75 players that will dress for the playoffs.  You don't get to submit a new 75 each week.

 

I have heard the reason for this is to prevent a "move-in" once the playoffs begin?

You were both right and wrong. The part you got right was "I was under the impression" everything after that is wrong. Here is the rule from the IHSAA fall bulletin:

"IX Entry List A.  A school must certify all players on the sectional entry list but dress only 75 eligible players at each level of tourney" and "J. Entry List Changes Between Tourneys No changes are permitted. A school may dress any 75 eligible players from its entry list of players."

 

[sr1]

1 hour ago, CaptainHook said:

I have been told it is not supposed to work that way. Fine per player to make changes.

 

I find it hard to believe anybody is paying those fines. Just rotating players. Maybe I’m wrong.

The IHSAA fall bulletin is available to anyone at https://www.ihsaa.org/Sports/Boys/Football. If you read it you won't have to rely on people who don't know what they are talking about for your rules knowledge. 

[sr1]

3 hours ago, Irishman said:

That is correct...roster adjustments after the sectional roster is submitted is about a  $200 "fine" per move I believe. 

Almost. Here is how it works. From the IHSAA fall bulletin:

"C. Late Entries – accepted if accompanied by a check for the following amount:

1. Within 24 hours after deadline: $50.00

2. Within 48 hours after deadline: $100.00

3. Over 48 hours: may not enter tournament.

D. Changes Prior to Deadline

1. Schools retain the ability to change their entry list at any time prior to the deadline by re-entering www.ihsaa.net and modifying their entry as prescribed in the instructions.

E. Changes After Deadline

1. Corrections/Additions/Errors — prior to opening day of your respective sectional a. accepted with $100 fine

2. Corrections/Additions/Errors — on starting day of your respective sectional or thereafter a. accepted with $200 fine."

 

[CaptainHook]

21 hours ago, sr1 said:

The IHSAA fall bulletin is available to anyone at https://www.ihsaa.org/Sports/Boys/Football. If you read it you won't have to rely on people who don't know what they are talking about for your rules knowledge. 

Thanks!  I have never seen that in writing before.  A lot of rumors about the 75 man roster limit.

[BDGiant93]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:14 PM, temptation said:

Now I’m pretty sure that the schools can order extra medals out of pocket after the fact, no?

Yes. That is a fact.