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Chatard at Roncalli (Sectional 22 Championship)


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Okay,  first, I'll put it out there.  This is "kind" of a legit game....despite Chatard being a huge underdog (and I think the only distant threat to Roncalli...outside of East Central).  I was reluctant to post it because I generally refuse to call attention to my team of favor (Sorry, Chatard folks are just not like Cathedral fans....we have some modicum of self-awareness and humility...looking forward to the upcoming contretemp that "We are the MOST humble" from Cathedral folks....thinking the subtlety will escape their ego...it's why I love them). 

Still, this, if it goes down like the first game, it's between the number 1 and 3 teams in 4A (per Sags and CalPreps...although I think it's actually between #1 and #2 in 4A).

I consider this the 4A Game of the Week although I also consider Chatard the HUGE underdog in this game.....kind of like last year against Merrillville with their 10+ D1 players.   That said, Roncalli isn't Merrillville.  Roncalli isn't soft (like Merrillville last year) and they know how dangerous Chatard can be.  Roncalli is well coached and simply a BEAST of a team.

Chatard was the last team to beat Roncalli which was last year (28-7....which really didn't reflect the closeness of the game in my opinion).  This year they played Roncalli closer than anyone else has so far.  For anyone who has seen game film, Chatard looks like a Freshman team lining up against the varsity in that game vs. Roncalli (which says a lot more about the HUGE size of Roncalli than the size of Chatard).

I'm hoping this game is as good as it can be but it is clearly Roncalli's game to lose.  In my opinion, they are literally a Top 5 team All Classes this year.  I would have loved to have seen them play some of the teams Chatard did this year like Warren Central and Cathedral.  I think it would have secured their spot in the Top 5 if they had.

Also, as an aside, to address some of the recent posts I have seen on other threads.  The 2019 Chatard team was a Top 5 team All Classes (CalPreps had them as #3 All Classes/Sagarin Predictor had them as #5 All Classes).  The 2020 team wasn't a Top 5 team in my opinion but certainly Top 10 All Classes  (CalPreps had them as #6 All Classes/#9 Sagarin Predictor/#6 Sagarin Golden Mean).  

I’m hoping it is as good a game as it can be.  Honestly, I think it’s the State Championship…outside of East Central.  We’ll see.  

Go Trojans.

 

Edited by Lysander
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Big factor for Roncalli:  Tyson Garrett did not play in the first game due to contact tracing.

He is getting some looks by colleges and is a big factor on the defense.   His speed at this size is a difference maker. (6'1" 222)

Carter St. John scares me to death.   He is so quick and shifty when he rolls out or on designed runs out of the QB spot.  He is a player! 

 

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4 hours ago, Lysander said:

Okay,  first, I'll put it out there.  This is "kind" of a legit game....despite Chatard being a huge underdog (and I think the only distant threat to Roncalli...outside of East Central).  I was reluctant to post it because I generally refuse to call attention to my team of favor (Sorry, Chatard folks are just not like Cathedral fans....we have some modicum of self-awareness and humility...looking forward to the upcoming contretemp that "We are the MOST humble" from Cathedral folks....thinking the subtlety will escape their ego...it's why I love them). 

Still, this, if it goes down like the first game, it's between the number 1 and 3 teams in 4A (per Sags and CalPreps...although I think it's actually between #1 and #2 in 4A).

I consider this the 4A Game of the Week although I also consider Chatard the HUGE underdog in this game.....kind of like last year against Merrillville with their 10+ D1 players.   That said, Roncalli isn't Merrillville.  Roncalli isn't soft (like Merrillville last year) and they know how dangerous Chatard can be.  Roncalli is well coached and simply a BEAST of a team.

Chatard was the last team to beat Roncalli which was last year (28-7....which really didn't reflect the closeness of the game in my opinion).  This year they played Roncalli closer than anyone else has so far.  For anyone who has seen game film, Chatard looks like a Freshman team lining up against the varsity in that game vs. Roncalli (which says a lot more about the HUGE size of Roncalli than the size of Chatard).

I'm hoping this game is as good as it can be but it is clearly Roncalli's game to lose.  In my opinion, they are literally a Top 5 team All Classes this year.  I would have loved to have seen them play some of the teams Chatard did this year like Warren Central and Cathedral.  I think it would have secured their spot in the Top 5 if they had.

Also, as an aside, to address some of the recent posts I have seen on other threads.  The 2019 Chatard team was a Top 5 team All Classes (CalPreps had them as #3 All Classes/Sagarin Predictor had them as #5 All Classes).  The 2020 team wasn't a Top 5 team in my opinion but certainly Top 10 All Classes  (CalPreps had them as #6 All Classes/#9 Sagarin Predictor/#6 Sagarin Golden Mean).  

I’m hoping it is as good a game as it can be.  Honestly, I think it’s the State Championship…outside of East Central.  We’ll see.  

Go Trojans.

 

Agree on all points.

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15 minutes ago, Dave007 said:

Chatard is playing their best football of the year right now...I imagine the same can be said for Roncalli but I am pulling for the upset.

 

Chatard 24

Roncalli 21

I agree Chatard is playing better, but the record of the teams on their 7 game winning streak is 22-45.  That includes a 7-2 Bloomington South team.

I would say that Chatard has beaten the teams they should have and also lost to the teams that they should have.  (Brebeuf could be argued, but I think they are probably the better team this year.  The TO's in that game made the difference.)

Looking forward to this game.

 

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5 hours ago, Lysander said:

Okay,  first, I'll put it out there.  This is "kind" of a legit game....despite Chatard being a huge underdog (and I think the only distant threat to Roncalli...outside of East Central).  I was reluctant to post it because I generally refuse to call attention to my team of favor (Sorry, Chatard folks are just not like Cathedral fans....we have some modicum of self-awareness and humility...looking forward to the upcoming contretemp that "We are the MOST humble" from Cathedral folks....thinking the subtlety will escape their ego...it's why I love them). 

Still, this, if it goes down like the first game, it's between the number 1 and 3 teams in 4A (per Sags and CalPreps...although I think it's actually between #1 and #2 in 4A).

I consider this the 4A Game of the Week although I also consider Chatard the HUGE underdog in this game.....kind of like last year against Merrillville with their 10+ D1 players.   That said, Roncalli isn't Merrillville.  Roncalli isn't soft (like Merrillville last year) and they know how dangerous Chatard can be.  Roncalli is well coached and simply a BEAST of a team.

Chatard was the last team to beat Roncalli which was last year (28-7....which really didn't reflect the closeness of the game in my opinion).  This year they played Roncalli closer than anyone else has so far.  For anyone who has seen game film, Chatard looks like a Freshman team lining up against the varsity in that game vs. Roncalli (which says a lot more about the HUGE size of Roncalli than the size of Chatard).

I'm hoping this game is as good as it can be but it is clearly Roncalli's game to lose.  In my opinion, they are literally a Top 5 team All Classes this year.  I would have loved to have seen them play some of the teams Chatard did this year like Warren Central and Cathedral.  I think it would have secured their spot in the Top 5 if they had.

Also, as an aside, to address some of the recent posts I have seen on other threads.  The 2019 Chatard team was a Top 5 team All Classes (CalPreps had them as #3 All Classes/Sagarin Predictor had them as #5 All Classes).  The 2020 team wasn't a Top 5 team in my opinion but certainly Top 10 All Classes  (CalPreps had them as #6 All Classes/#9 Sagarin Predictor/#6 Sagarin Golden Mean).  

I’m hoping it is as good a game as it can be.  Honestly, I think it’s the State Championship…outside of East Central.  We’ll see.  

Go Trojans.

 

This is going to be a hell of a game.....I am pulling for the Trojans in an upset but I kind of agree, its Roncalli's game to lose.

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I’m hoping it’s a “helluva” game but am more than worried that Chatard is in the crosshairs of a Roncalli team committed to two consecutive dominating State Championship runs.  Roncalli has been a special group these last two years faltering only to Chatard last year.  That said, most everyone is back at Roncalli….and older, bigger and more physical.  Is there any way I can make a Chatard more of an underdog?

Regardless how this game plays out, I think it’s interesting to look at the coaches.  For those unaware, Roncalli’s head coach, John Rodenberg, now has State Championship rings in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana….which is amazing.  There is no coach in Indiana with those credentials.  Actually, there is likely no coach in the country with those credentials.

Chatard’s head coach is Rob Doyle.  He inherited a program from the legendary Vince Lorenzano who won 7 State Championships at Chatard.  Coach Doyle was for many years a CYO and later a Freshman Coach at Chatard.  Prior to that, he was a quarterback who ended up in both the Andrean HS and Depauw University Hall of Fame.  He is also a partner in a law firm that features his name.  He has won 2 State Championships in 4 years so far at the helm of Chatard and totally converted the Trojans to a team that will attack you both from the ground and the air.

Aside from the game, I simply can’t imagine two coaching staffs that quite match these two teams.

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1 minute ago, Lysander said:

Is there any way I can make a Chatard more of an underdog?

You aren't wrong.  I watched the first game, and Roncalli is just flat out better individually at almost every position.  Add to it that they are well coached and are a very experienced group, and I just don't see how Chatard wins this one.  The game stats from the first game paint a better picture of how that game actually transpired.  That probably should have been something closer to 35-14.  @fenderbender I know the outcome of this season will affect this answer, but assuming they run the table as expected, where would you rank this Roncalli team among their all time teams?  The offense at least has to be up there one would think?

 

33 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Aside from the game, I simply can’t imagine two coaching staffs that quite match these two teams.

This is what gives me hope.  Two great coaching staffs, but I think Coach Doyle and staff have done an unbelievable job developing players and adjusting their scheme based on the personnel they have over the last several years.  This isn't the first game where they've been outmatched talent-wise.  Hoping they've made some adjustments to keep this game entertaining, and maybe even pull off the upset.

 

10 hours ago, Lysander said:

Honestly, I think it’s the State Championship…outside of East Central.

East Central has definitely proven to be the biggest contender to Roncalli's repeat, but I keep saying don't sleep on Memorial.  I remember reading that they have something like 18 starters returning from last year's team.  They also have an exceptional coaching staff, so I expect them to be a handful for whoever they play.

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1 minute ago, TheDoctor22 said:

You aren't wrong.  I watched the first game, and Roncalli is just flat out better individually at almost every position.  Add to it that they are well coached and are a very experienced group, and I just don't see how Chatard wins this one.  The game stats from the first game paint a better picture of how that game actually transpired.  That probably should have been something closer to 35-14.  @fenderbender I know the outcome of this season will affect this answer, but assuming they run the table as expected, where would you rank this Roncalli team among their all time teams?  The offense at least has to be up there one would think?

 

This is what gives me hope.  Two great coaching staffs, but I think Coach Doyle and staff have done an unbelievable job developing players and adjusting their scheme based on the personnel they have over the last several years.  This isn't the first game where they've been outmatched talent-wise.  Hoping they've made some adjustments to keep this game entertaining, and maybe even pull off the upset.

 

East Central has definitely proven to be the biggest contender to Roncalli's repeat, but I keep saying don't sleep on Memorial.  I remember reading that they have something like 18 starters returning from last year's team.  They also have an exceptional coaching staff, so I expect them to be a handful for whoever they play.

I am not a life long southsider, so I can only understand what I read in the media guides and spending hours looking at John Harrells page.

However, none of their previous state title runs had margins as large as last year.   No one played withing three touchdowns of them.  (I think a COVID free EC might have had a chance, but we will never know.)

The 3 titles and four consecutive appearances looked like good teams, but one of those started the season with 4 straight losses before winning the next 10 and a title.  Lost to Chatard 3/4 of those seasons.    Did beat Cathedral the three times they met in the playoffs.

The 99 team beat Moeller, ran the table and had pretty good margins.

The 2016 almost lost to Southport in regular season and  Lebanon in sectionals, but just had a way to win games.

I know some will argue that this group did not beat Cathedral, but you can only beat who you play.

They are going to have a couple of carreer records for the WR and QB that will never be broken.

If they win out, I don't know how you could argue against them.

 

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15 minutes ago, TheDoctor22 said:

East Central has definitely proven to be the biggest contender to Roncalli's repeat, but I keep saying don't sleep on Memorial.  I remember reading that they have something like 18 starters returning from last year's team.  They also have an exceptional coaching staff, so I expect them to be a handful for whoever they play.

We had 20 starters returning from last years 8-4, sectional runner up team. But we are more concerned with Northview right now, as the team shouldn't be focused looking ahead. But if its a EC-Memorial regional (would be an home game for Memorial, assuming both teams win), that would be such an exciting game. Also don't count Mt.Vernon in the Regional too, they are having a better season after their loss to Noblesville, winning 10 straight

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15 minutes ago, TheDoctor22 said:

You aren't wrong.  I watched the first game, and Roncalli is just flat out better individually at almost every position.  Add to it that they are well coached and are a very experienced group, and I just don't see how Chatard wins this one.  The game stats from the first game paint a better picture of how that game actually transpired.  That probably should have been something closer to 35-14.  @fenderbender I know the outcome of this season will affect this answer, but assuming they run the table as expected, where would you rank this Roncalli team among their all time teams?  The offense at least has to be up there one would think?

 

In addition to the TO advantage by Chatard, I think there were a few crucial penalties that really helped Chatard by extending their drives and others by forcing Roncalli punts.   I would say 2-3 times.  One of these goes the other way and it ends up 35-14 like you mentioned.

Not that they were bad calls, but they just seemed to have a big impact when they were thrown.

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29 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

I am not a life long southsider, so I can only understand what I read in the media guides and spending hours looking at John Harrells page.

However, none of their previous state title runs had margins as large as last year.   No one played withing three touchdowns of them.  (I think a COVID free EC might have had a chance, but we will never know.)

The 3 titles and four consecutive appearances looked like good teams, but one of those started the season with 4 straight losses before winning the next 10 and a title.  Lost to Chatard 3/4 of those seasons.    Did beat Cathedral the three times they met in the playoffs.

The 99 team beat Moeller, ran the table and had pretty good margins.

The 2016 almost lost to Southport in regular season and  Lebanon in sectionals, but just had a way to win games.

I know some will argue that this group did not beat Cathedral, but you can only beat who you play.

They are going to have a couple of carreer records for the WR and QB that will never be broken.

If they win out, I don't know how you could argue against them.

 

Roncalli used to always play a fairly tough schedule. Aside from playing Cathedral and Chatard, they always used to open up with Center Grove and got Franklin Central week 2. Played their fair share of schools from OH as well if I can recall.  

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43 minutes ago, TheDoctor22 said:

I know the outcome of this season will affect this answer, but assuming they run the table as expected, where would you rank this Roncalli team among their all time teams?  The offense at least has to be up there one would think?

The 04 Roncalli team was very good. Jason Werner was Mr. Football and starred at Purdue and Pat Kuntz started a couple years at Notre Dame. Also had Tim Sergi who went to IU on a scholarship but missed most of the season due to an injury. They weren't fancy back then, didn't need to be. They ran all of 3 or 4 plays and you couldn't stop them. Also believe 4A was much stronger back then when it was 5 classes compared to what 4A is now. 

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3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

The 04 Roncalli team was very good. Jason Werner was Mr. Football and starred at Purdue and Pat Kuntz started a couple years at Notre Dame. Also had Tim Sergi who went to IU on a scholarship but missed most of the season due to an injury. They weren't fancy back then, didn't need to be. They ran all of 3 or 4 plays and you couldn't stop them. Also believe 4A was much stronger back then when it was 5 classes compared to what 4A is now. 

All good points and they avenged their 2 regular season losses in the playoffs.

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11 hours ago, Lysander said:

Okay,  first, I'll put it out there.  This is "kind" of a legit game....despite Chatard being a huge underdog (and I think the only distant threat to Roncalli...outside of East Central).  I was reluctant to post it because I generally refuse to call attention to my team of favor (Sorry, Chatard folks are just not like Cathedral fans....we have some modicum of self-awareness and humility...looking forward to the upcoming contretemp that "We are the MOST humble" from Cathedral folks....thinking the subtlety will escape their ego...it's why I love them).

Passive aggressive much, Lysander. You are the most gushing, obnoxious Chatard apologist on the board. Evidenced by your 6 paragraph post on how good Chatard and Doyle is. Funny.
 

Pound sand. You'll always be Cathedral's little red-headed step child. Roncalli wins by 2 TDs. Roncalli running game rolls. 

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2 hours ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Passive aggressive much, Lysander. You are the most gushing, obnoxious Chatard apologist on the board. Evidenced by your 6 paragraph post on how good Chatard and Doyle is. Funny.
 

Pound sand. You'll always be Cathedral's little red-headed step child. Roncalli wins by 2 TDs. Roncalli running game rolls. 

1. Errr….thinking you already own “obnoxious” here.  
2. I’d add “loathsome” if it wasn’t already reserved for Cathedral simply in general.
3. “Gushing” clearly belongs to PBJ.  But he’s a bit elderly and I’m down with that. 

A Cathedral trifecta.  Good for you guys.  

I’m an import to Indy post college and law school, btw.  Growing up poor but honest I refused to allow my kids to be exposed to Cathedral.  

Chatard was an easy call.

Do you really want to do this?   Seriously, you tried to ban “Temptation”….are you misguided enough to actually believe the rest of us don’t detest you and Cathedral in general far more than any threat you would impose on “Temptation”.  

We tolerate you simply based on manners….but we all know you break every rule and flaunt it.  What makes the rest of the Catholic schools most angry is that we get associated with it.
 

 

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