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Best Program in Southern Part of State


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Was a little bored last night and I was looking at programs that I generally call "South of the Indy Metro Area".  Bloomington, Columbus, Evansville, Jeffersonville, SE Indiana and all points in between.

On a previous thread there was talk about program strength and tradition.

I decided to take a look and ranked them on State Titles, Runner Ups, Sectionals and I threw in Mr. Footballs as a last tie breaker.

I looked at playoff era only.

I noticed a couple of things:

1.  If Gibson Southern were to win this year, it really speaks to the turn around in the program Nick Hart has done.  All of the other winners from the South have at least 10 sectionals to their credit, indicating consistant winning.  GS only has four and NH has all of them.  I hope they get it.

2.  Long droughts - 27 years since last state title appearance for Castle and 20 for Jasper.  Also Jasper longest sectional title drought for those who have won state titles.

3.  Memorial - The Hurley success has allowed Memorial to really jump to the top.

image.thumb.png.bfcb4c5faa225f9e4f397c2c3b438048.png

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1 hour ago, fenderbender said:

Was a little bored last night and I was looking at programs that I generally call "South of the Indy Metro Area".  Bloomington, Columbus, Evansville, Jeffersonville, SE Indiana and all points in between.

On a previous thread there was talk about program strength and tradition.

I decided to take a look and ranked them on State Titles, Runner Ups, Sectionals and I threw in Mr. Footballs as a last tie breaker.

I looked at playoff era only.

I noticed a couple of things:

1.  If Gibson Southern were to win this year, it really speaks to the turn around in the program Nick Hart has done.  All of the other winners from the South have at least 10 sectionals to their credit, indicating consistant winning.  GS only has four and NH has all of them.  I hope they get it.

2.  Long droughts - 27 years since last state title appearance for Castle and 20 for Jasper.  Also Jasper longest sectional title drought for those who have won state titles.

3.  Memorial - The Hurley success has allowed Memorial to really jump to the top.

image.thumb.png.bfcb4c5faa225f9e4f397c2c3b438048.png

Outside of the 70’s, Lawrenceburg football hasn’t been relevant (until a few years ago).  I am biased but I don’t  think anyone in the SE part of the state looks at them as a “power program”.  I know your numbers support it but top two is far fetched IMO.  The Lburg HC/AD went after the EC HC job a few years ago for a reason 😂.  

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I agree with some of the numbers being skewed to the 70s, but LB did get to the finals once and they are still winning sectionals recently.  I don't think anyone considers their program better than EC.    I thought about looking only at the everyone gets in period starting in 85, but hey, it is something to debate and talk about!

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, fenderbender said:

Was a little bored last night and I was looking at programs that I generally call "South of the Indy Metro Area".  Bloomington, Columbus, Evansville, Jeffersonville, SE Indiana and all points in between.

On a previous thread there was talk about program strength and tradition.

I decided to take a look and ranked them on State Titles, Runner Ups, Sectionals and I threw in Mr. Footballs as a last tie breaker.

I looked at playoff era only.

I noticed a couple of things:

1.  If Gibson Southern were to win this year, it really speaks to the turn around in the program Nick Hart has done.  All of the other winners from the South have at least 10 sectionals to their credit, indicating consistant winning.  GS only has four and NH has all of them.  I hope they get it.

2.  Long droughts - 27 years since last state title appearance for Castle and 20 for Jasper.  Also Jasper longest sectional title drought for those who have won state titles.

3.  Memorial - The Hurley success has allowed Memorial to really jump to the top.

Thanks for taking the time to put this together, it is a very interesting quantification of "hard" numbers.  Our interpretation of the empirical evidence is what will really be the fun part of this conversation starter.  Plus I like spreadsheets and colors.

27 minutes ago, BL1985trojans said:

Outside of the 70’s, Lawrenceburg football hasn’t been relevant (until a few years ago).  I am biased but I don’t  think anyone in the SE part of the state looks at them as a “power program”.  I know your numbers support it but top two is far fetched IMO.  The Lburg HC/AD went after the EC HC job a few years ago for a reason 😂.  

If the numbers support it, how can it not be so?  I'm not a SE Indiana guy, so that is an honest question, not being a smart-gluteus maximus (trying to stay PC here!).

That question asked, I don't know that fenderbender's intention was to use the rankings as a reflection of the contemporary state of the programs listed (although it can be inferred, see fender bender's points #1 and #3 above), but more or a "here's data from the past 50 years, now talk".  (And off we go... 🙂 )

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22 minutes ago, Esso Ayche said:

Thanks for taking the time to put this together, it is a very interesting quantification of "hard" numbers.  Our interpretation of the empirical evidence is what will really be the fun part of this conversation starter.  Plus I like spreadsheets and colors.

If the numbers support it, how can it not be so?  I'm not a SE Indiana guy, so that is an honest question, not being a smart-gluteus maximus (trying to stay PC here!).

That question asked, I don't know that fenderbender's intention was to use the rankings as a reflection of the contemporary state of the programs listed (although it can be inferred, see fender bender's points #1 and #3 above), but more or a "here's data from the past 50 years, now talk".  (And off we go... 🙂 )

Something to talk about.   Slow day yesterday.

I would also say there are flaws in this system.   It shows that sometimes numbers aren't everything.

For example, Mater Dei has won more SIAC titles than Castle.  (Surprisingly!)  Would we say that with SIACs, sectionals and finals appearances that they are a better program.  (Whatever that means.)

 

 

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24 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

I considered for example,  Whiteland, Franklin and Triton Central and the like "Indy Metro" schools.

 

 

I know, and you explained it well, but I didn't read the post well enough before commenting which was clearly stupid on my part.🤪

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12 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

Something to talk about.   Slow day yesterday.

I would also say there are flaws in this system.   It shows that sometimes numbers aren't everything.

For example, Mater Dei has won more SIAC titles than Castle.  (Surprisingly!)  Would we say that with SIACs, sectionals and finals appearances that they are a better program.  (Whatever that means.)

I agree that numbers aren't everything, but they do help to at least begin to quantify some of the anecdotal conversations out there.  AND start new arguments!  I mean, conversations.

Re: MD/Castle, that is an interesting number to consider.  While Castle has the extra state title, the numbers would indicate that MD is, more broadly speaking, a significantly better program over the past ~50 years.  Oh crap... did I just start a P/P v public row?? lol

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3 hours ago, fenderbender said:

Something to talk about.   Slow day yesterday.

I would also say there are flaws in this system.   It shows that sometimes numbers aren't everything.

For example, Mater Dei has won more SIAC titles than Castle.  (Surprisingly!)  Would we say that with SIACs, sectionals and finals appearances that they are a better program.  (Whatever that means.)

Yes, without question MD is the better program. I think you can argue Castle does less with more resources (# of students, weight facilities, program $, etc.) than any of the upper echelon SIAC teams. It's a head scratcher IMO. 

What Mike Goebel has done at MD is amazing.  Prior to him being HC, MD had success, but nothing like what they've had in the 20+ since he's been in charge.

Nick Hart was the final piece of the puzzle.  A lot of GS people had worked for years to build a program starting at the younger ages. So while he deserves credit, so do a lot of people who had already been working for years before he arrived.

 

 

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Any discussion of the best programs in Southern Indiana has to include Memorial.  What Coach Hurley has accomplished in his tenure is unbelievable, esp when you take into account the Tiger's success regardless of playing 2A, 3A, or 4A.  Truly impressive.  Starting with the Rupp teams in 2008/09 to Lindauer/Combs teams of recent years, the Tigers have arguably been on one of the best runs of any high school team from the Evansville area.. EVER.  No mythical unicorns in the Tiger pedigree, just hardware. 

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From SW Indiana it’s simple. 
1. Memorial 

2. Mater Dei 

3. Heritage Hills

4. GS/Southridge 

5. ummm nobody. 
 

biggest factor is tournament success. Regular season records are hard to compare because of how incredibly soft some conferences are. 

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35 minutes ago, Screagle said:

From SW Indiana it’s simple. 
1. Memorial 

2. Mater Dei 

3. Heritage Hills

4. GS/Southridge 

5. ummm nobody. 
 

biggest factor is tournament success. Regular season records are hard to compare because of how incredibly soft some conferences are. 

I don’t know if there is a prefect metric when trying to put together a list like this. Even comparing the # of sectional titles can be skewed as some sectionals are much tougher than others.

I will point out SR has 4 State Tital appearances while HH has 3....and GS has none (to this point- that will change in about 5 hours). 

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On 11/12/2021 at 10:49 AM, DumfriesYMCA said:

Here’s a good place to start

864C229A-1893-4FA1-AFD0-08041E65626C.thumb.jpeg.62a011f84c1890d7819bee02284e5a1c.jpeg
 

B4424855-3FAB-44AB-9837-1D51A953A0EC.thumb.jpeg.4f3ae60df0dfa0ee07bb3e7cd22d2e23.jpeg

 

I think Columbus East probably has all they need to claim they are the best program south of indy  

Rough year for us this year, but the boys got better as the season went on.. Look forward to next season with a ton of starters returning. Columbus East has been very fortunate to have kids buy into the program. A ton of good programs south of Indianapolis. 

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2 hours ago, MDAlum82 said:

Any discussion of the best programs in Southern Indiana has to include Memorial.  What Coach Hurley has accomplished in his tenure is unbelievable, esp when you take into account the Tiger's success regardless of playing 2A, 3A, or 4A.  Truly impressive.  Starting with the Rupp teams in 2008/09 to Lindauer/Combs teams of recent years, the Tigers have arguably been on one of the best runs of any high school team from the Evansville area.. EVER.  No mythical unicorns in the Tiger pedigree, just hardware. 

I agree, I put them up their with Columbus East.. with East and Cathedral being the only 2 schools to bump up 2 classes due to the success factor. Memorial has been right up there with them. 

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On 11/12/2021 at 8:03 AM, fenderbender said:

Was a little bored last night and I was looking at programs that I generally call "South of the Indy Metro Area".  Bloomington, Columbus, Evansville, Jeffersonville, SE Indiana and all points in between.

On a previous thread there was talk about program strength and tradition.

I decided to take a look and ranked them on State Titles, Runner Ups, Sectionals and I threw in Mr. Footballs as a last tie breaker.

I looked at playoff era only.

I noticed a couple of things:

1.  If Gibson Southern were to win this year, it really speaks to the turn around in the program Nick Hart has done.  All of the other winners from the South have at least 10 sectionals to their credit, indicating consistant winning.  GS only has four and NH has all of them.  I hope they get it.

2.  Long droughts - 27 years since last state title appearance for Castle and 20 for Jasper.  Also Jasper longest sectional title drought for those who have won state titles.

3.  Memorial - The Hurley success has allowed Memorial to really jump to the top.

image.thumb.png.bfcb4c5faa225f9e4f397c2c3b438048.png

Just wondering why you didn’t go ahead and count Regionals and Semi-States as well? 

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