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Best Program in Southern Part of State


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15 hours ago, Screagle said:

Not the 1st time we’ve been told we can’t beat Chatard. We were told in 18 no chance. Our JV played most the 4th quarter. 2019 by far best defense Memorials ever ran onto the field  
 

 

11 hours ago, tango said:

Don't make promises for a team you know nothing about . We aren't glad or sad. It is what it is. We will compete as a school of less than 600 kids in whatever class we are told to play in, whether it's against schools with 600-700 or 1350. We would have enjoyed playing HH in 32 Sectional in 2019, and then Chatard at state. Too many teams down here seem to fear them. 

LOL....Memorial folks themselves said here back in '19 that they were glad they were in 4A or they wouldn't have been celebrating if they were in 3A.  That didn't originate with me, but with Memorial folks.  As for Chatard, some of those folks stated that the '19 team was the best they had had in a decade...again, their words, not mine.  As for me, am I glad that a stellar Memorial team was not in 32 for us to have to get through in addition to a tough GS team?  Like you said, it is what it is.  I believe that P/P should have to play up anyway, but the rules in Indiana are what they are and until they are changed we just have to get bigger, stronger, faster.   Take it from one who is 1 - 6 against Chatard....we don't make excuses when we lose to them (well some 'round here do), we instead have to get back to work and improve until the rules change, which they won't.  I would have rather had this years Chatard team to play than the '19 team, but that is the way it goes.  

The unfortunate fact for those of us in public po dunk is that to win state we need guys named Jay and Brady (with a solid crew around them)--once in a generation for our schools.  We don't get those guys every year, but every now and then,  in a good program you can take a group of skinny, nasty, country boys (and a few big hungry ones) and make a solid run and have your opportunity to play for it all.  

To be honest, in 3 years, I hope our path goes through Memorial and Chatard....I think we may be able to give them both a solid game.

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10 hours ago, HHPatriots said:

 

LOL....Memorial folks themselves said here back in '19 that they were glad they were in 4A or they wouldn't have been celebrating if they were in 3A.  That didn't originate with me, but with Memorial folks.  As for Chatard, some of those folks stated that the '19 team was the best they had had in a decade...again, their words, not mine.  As for me, am I glad that a stellar Memorial team was not in 32 for us to have to get through in addition to a tough GS team?  Like you said, it is what it is.  I believe that P/P should have to play up anyway, but the rules in Indiana are what they are and until they are changed we just have to get bigger, stronger, faster.   Take it from one who is 1 - 6 against Chatard....we don't make excuses when we lose to them (well some 'round here do), we instead have to get back to work and improve until the rules change, which they won't.  I would have rather had this years Chatard team to play than the '19 team, but that is the way it goes.  

The unfortunate fact for those of us in public po dunk is that to win state we need guys named Jay and Brady (with a solid crew around them)--once in a generation for our schools.  We don't get those guys every year, but every now and then,  in a good program you can take a group of skinny, nasty, country boys (and a few big hungry ones) and make a solid run and have your opportunity to play for it all.  

To be honest, in 3 years, I hope our path goes through Memorial and Chatard....I think we may be able to give them both a solid game.

In three years, Hopefully GS is standing in that path....sectional 32 will be exciting. 

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10 hours ago, HHPatriots said:

 

LOL....Memorial folks themselves said here back in '19 that they were glad they were in 4A or they wouldn't have been celebrating if they were in 3A.  That didn't originate with me, but with Memorial folks.  As for Chatard, some of those folks stated that the '19 team was the best they had had in a decade...again, their words, not mine. 

My memory isn't that good, but I would disagree with any Memorial fan who said that. To me it doesn't reflect the mentality of our program.  But everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

As for Jay/Brady, with very few exceptions, most teams need a few extra special players to win at state. Look no further than this year where each of the winning teams seemed to have a guy who was clearly the best player on the field. That's definitely what helped us get as far as did in 2017-2019.  

I don't see the IHSAA ever implementing an automatic bump for p/p schools, but I know many have a similar opinion.  Personally, I think both sides can make valid arguments for & against. I wish we were still in 3A, but its only because the post-season rivalries were a whole heck of a lot more fun than in 4A. I doubt we'll ever have the depth to win 4A again, but I think we'll be good enough to earn enough points to stay up. For my money, Sectional 32 from 2013 to 2018 was one of the most exciting in the state.  Good teams with passionate fan bases made for a lot of fun.    

   

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14 hours ago, Titan76 said:

In three years, Hopefully GS is standing in that path....sectional 32 will be exciting. 

Agree...some of my HH friends who super excited about their freshman and 8th and 7th grade classes need to be very worried about the GS kids in those same clases.  Very worried.

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Memorials 3rd grade thru 8th grade went a combined 68-4 this year. Studs at all levels who are can’t miss college bound D1.  😂

Kidding! I honestly couldn’t tell you the record of one team outside of varsity.

I think the 2017 and 2018 group were under 500 every year until sophomore year. 2019 group below average every year until high school. Hope these upcoming groups are just average right now.

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2 minutes ago, Screagle said:

Memorials 3rd grade thru 8th grade went a combined 68-4 this year. Studs at all levels who are can’t miss college bound D1.  😂

Kidding! I honestly couldn’t tell you the record of one team outside of varsity.

I think the 2017 and 2018 group were under 500 every year until sophomore year. 2019 group below average every year until high school. Hope these upcoming groups are just average right now.

I totally get your story and have heard it several times, it can certainly work out that way.  That said, Dave Mosbey has some crazy stats in the PAC regarding the comparison of 8th grade success in our conference (PAC) vs senior year.  It's in the 90's percentile wise if memory serves.  So, although it doesn't matter (and everyone agrees it doesn't), if it were a stock it would be a great way to hedge your bet.

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23 minutes ago, Screagle said:

Memorials 3rd grade thru 8th grade went a combined 68-4 this year. Studs at all levels who are can’t miss college bound D1.  😂

Kidding! I honestly couldn’t tell you the record of one team outside of varsity.

I was about to say, pretty sure our cub/MS teams had some losses. I don't know any of the records either, the only info I usually get is if the teams are doing well. Usually just focus on varsity on more, but the MS teams usually provide a nice indicator on potential success 

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I think it’s more about move-ins or transfers for academic reasons. Maybe we need a high school transfer portal. That way there’s no BS lies from parents and programs about how or why a kid ended up in a new program for their senior season. JMO.  

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10 minutes ago, Screagle said:

I think it’s more about move-ins or transfers for academic reasons. Maybe we need a high school transfer portal. That way there’s no BS lies from parents and programs about how or why a kid ended up in a new program for their senior season. JMO.  

It's not nice to talk about Bosse and Reitz parents like that. LOL

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2 hours ago, TigerFan20 said:

I was about to say, pretty sure our cub/MS teams had some losses. I don't know any of the records either, the only info I usually get is if the teams are doing well. Usually just focus on varsity on more, but the MS teams usually provide a nice indicator on potential success 

On a different topic, CUB is the dumbest and most outdated concept of all times (kinda works for baseball with JV and Varsity CUB or whatever they are calling it).  For football get on a 7th and 8th grade schedule like Castle, North and the rest of the "area" teams (more analogous to basketball).  It would provide more opportunity for everyone.

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48 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

On a different topic, CUB is the dumbest and most outdated concept of all times (kinda works for baseball with JV and Varsity CUB or whatever they are calling it).  For football get on a 7th and 8th grade schedule like Castle, North and the rest of the "area" teams (more analogous to basketball).  It would provide more opportunity for everyone.

I agree.

To play devil's advocate though, until North was built a few years ago, EVSC high schools did not have Jr Highs associated with an individual high school. Thanks to district lines and bussing (also antiquated, IMO) students who went to Washington MS could end up living within Reitz, North, or Bosse HS districts. 

And don't even get me started on the K-8 structure of the Diocesan schools.  Let's just say there's a reason the word 'parochial' can have a negative connotation in some uses.   

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7 hours ago, Titan32 said:

Agree...some of my HH friends who super excited about their freshman and 8th and 7th grade classes need to be very worried about the GS kids in those same clases.  Very worried.

I don’t know any of them except one.  His older brother was a 4 year starter and just finished up his college career.  Looking forward to seeing what he can do. Kid looks bigger than what I am lol

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I think leaving Jasper out is a mistake. I’d put us above Southridge and behind Heritage Hills. I’d put Memorial at the top and Reitz and MD up there as well. Hopefully the move to the SIAC will help us come tournament time in the future. 

Is there a more accomplished coach in the state than Mike Goebel? I wrestled against those state championship wrestling teams and holy crap. I’d love to have been a fly on the wall during those practices to see exactly how he did it. 

I think leaving Jasper out is a mistake. I’d put us above Southridge and behind Heritage Hills. I’d put Memorial at the top and Reitz and MD up there as well. Hopefully the move to the SIAC will help us come tournament time in the future. 

Is there a more accomplished coach in the state than Mike Goebel? I wrestled against those state championship wrestling teams and holy crap. I’d love to have been a fly on the wall during those practices to see exactly how he did it. 

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On 12/2/2021 at 3:18 PM, jets said:

Quick quiz - since the success factor implementation, which 2A school has been bumped up for tournament success? SR, or MD? Wasn't this thing put in place for the private/parochial schools anyway?!? 

I suspect, with 28 juniors on their roster, MD will be making their SF trip up soon, that is, unless, the IHSAA decides the COVID year really didn't happen? 

Mater Dei faired pretty well in 3A pre success factor. If Mater Dei is coming to 3A, SW Indiana is absolutely loaded in 3A... 

I don't think the IHSAA publicly said the success factor was directed at P/P schools... Whether they were just being PC or ignoring the elephant in the room...who knows.

Believe me, I feel the struggle at Southridge. I would've likely been playing in 4A if the success factor were implemented when I was in school -- that being said there were debates that 3A was better than 4A in the early 2000s, as for example in 2001, Jasper was the 4A state champion and their only loss was to Heritage Hills, which was only beaten by Chatard from 2000-2003...

I haven't been able to follow baseball as closely as I once did in SW Indiana, but with Jasper and Southridge's state championships... what is the forecast for Class 2A and 3A with regular powers like South Spencer, Mater Dei, and Southridge (I think Jasper has proven they can play in any class in Indiana, competitively. There are some great baseball coach bios to be written in SW Indiana, Gobert's in particular.) I've always kind of jokingly referred to Jasper as a semi-P/P. Much like Castle, Carmel, and Center Grove, they as you know, have such dedicated boosters and are able to have nearly 100% autonomy from their youth leagues to the HS ... in addition to "generational success" which I attribute to jobs.

Many of my former teammates are putting roots down in Jasper. I'm sure it's the same for some Raiders, Rangers, Jeeps, and other surrounding schools. Maybe those who are able to work remotely will be able to come back to Spencer County, but if you have a degree or two, often your occupation isn't available in rural SW Indiana. That being said, a number parents of current HH student-athletes make the drive to Evansville, Owensboro, Louisville, or Jasper (or even Crane) -- these are often the legacy families with deep land and familial ties to the rural community. 

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8 hours ago, CombTheHair76 said:

I think leaving Jasper out is a mistake. I’d put us above Southridge and behind Heritage Hills. I’d put Memorial at the top and Reitz and MD up there as well. Hopefully the move to the SIAC will help us come tournament time in the future. 

Is there a more accomplished coach in the state than Mike Goebel? I wrestled against those state championship wrestling teams and holy crap. I’d love to have been a fly on the wall during those practices to see exactly how he did it. 

I think leaving Jasper out is a mistake. I’d put us above Southridge and behind Heritage Hills. I’d put Memorial at the top and Reitz and MD up there as well. Hopefully the move to the SIAC will help us come tournament time in the future. 

Is there a more accomplished coach in the state than Mike Goebel? I wrestled against those state championship wrestling teams and holy crap. I’d love to have been a fly on the wall during those practices to see exactly how he did it. 

All-time (non-Evansville + Castle):

- Jasper

- Heritage Hills

- Southridge

- Gibson Southern (hard to place as they've had a solid decade of success, but were a C+ program most years -- sometimes better, sometimes worse post consolidation)

- Vincennes Lincoln

- Mount Vernon / Boonville

- Perry Central / South Spencer

- Tell City (gets a boost with the 1980s and early 1990s in the consolidation era)

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17 hours ago, Titan32 said:

On a different topic, CUB is the dumbest and most outdated concept of all times (kinda works for baseball with JV and Varsity CUB or whatever they are calling it).  For football get on a 7th and 8th grade schedule like Castle, North and the rest of the "area" teams (more analogous to basketball).  It would provide more opportunity for everyone.

CUB? Pre-7th grade Castle had the only tackle football leagues for a while, but I don't see why you'd want the AAU basketball or travel baseball (don't get me started unless it's American Legion or American Legion JV) for football. Seems to work better for "individual sports": wrestling, swimming/diving, tennis, golf, running clubs, etc...

Also Jasper's little secret in addition to Coach Gobert is American Legion JV baseball (in addition to a tremendous city/local youth program). I'll never slight Rockport American Legion, but Coach Gobert's approach of using American Legion baseball (not allowing graduates -- they typically play for the Jasper Reds if they're going to college) is genius. He gets his players for 30+ HS games per year and then 30+ Legion games.

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3 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

CUB? Pre-7th grade Castle had the only tackle football leagues for a while, but I don't see why you'd want the AAU basketball or travel baseball (don't get me started unless it's American Legion or American Legion JV) for football. Seems to work better for "individual sports": wrestling, swimming/diving, tennis, golf, running clubs, etc...

Also Jasper's little secret in addition to Coach Gobert is American Legion JV baseball (in addition to a tremendous city/local youth program). I'll never slight Rockport American Legion, but Coach Gobert's approach of using American Legion baseball (not allowing graduates -- they typically play for the Jasper Reds if they're going to college) is genius. He gets his players for 30+ HS games per year and then 30+ Legion games.

Sounds like you aren't familiar with CUB in the EVSC.  My post didn't mention and has nothing to do with AAU.  All the post is saying is that 7th and 8th grade schedules (like Heritage Hill does) for both football (analogous to basketball), is the best model and that if everyone was on the same model that would be beneficial to everyone.

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5 minutes ago, southend said:

So what is the verdict? Best in the southern part of the state?

Imo 

 

Tier 1: Columbus East

Tier 2: Memorial/Mater Dei/Heritage Hills/Reitz

Tier 3: Gibson Southern/Southridge/Linton

 

I’m probably forgetting someone so don’t think I’m trying to disrespect anyone lol. Just the teams that come to my mind and where I have them stacked 

 

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1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Imo 

 

Tier 1: Columbus East

Tier 2: Memorial/Mater Dei/Heritage Hills/Reitz

Tier 3: Gibson Southern/Southridge/Linton

 

I’m probably forgetting someone so don’t think I’m trying to disrespect anyone lol. Just the teams that come to my mind and where I have them stacked 

 

I wouldn’t even be mad if you put Memorial up there with Columbus East in Tier 1, they have had an outstanding run. I would say you are about spot on with this. GS will move up if they can put together another title run or semi state run in the coming years. A ton of well ran programs in Southern Indiana. 

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