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30 minutes ago, BTF said:

I was unaware of the problems Elkhart was facing this year. I hope you are right about the future there. The north needs them. I believe their coach has a good history?

I imagine Carroll and Homestead are already mirroring other successful programs. But something is clearly missing outside of smaller teams they play in the regular season. I won't go as far as to say that they are "throw away" games other than South Side. Concordia, Wayne, North Side, and Northrop all have their moments. 

Concordia has two victories over Carroll and three games against Homestead that were decided by less than a touchdown. 

Northrop has beaten both Carroll and Homestead (once each).

North Side beat Carroll in 2015. But to be fair to your comment, they haven't even ben been remotely close against either program ever since. 

Wayne has a victory over Carroll to their credit. 

After further review, you could probably regard Northrop, North Side, and Wayne as throw away games. But not Concordia. We'll see if Concordia can continue to produce with the new coach. 

 

24 minutes ago, BTF said:

I agree with your post other than this part. Under this scenario, Snider is back to square one. This doesn't do Snider much good for when they get back into 6a. They need the outside competition just as much as Carroll and Homestead. 

If you honestly believe that the Cadets of today are on par or even on a trajectory that would allow them to compete with the HHS/CHS teams of today; Then I have some swamp land in Arizona to sell you.  

Part 2:  Therein lies the other problem.  The inability of the SAC to open themselves up to revising a 'closed conference' system impacts the 5 FWCS schools also.  Snider has a program that athletes/coaches/supporters 'want' to be a part of!  Other public FWCS schools, it seems not so much.  Yes, there are diehards...but no where to the level of support that Snider has garnered through the years.  So, a clean slate with a new perspective of what it is that the 'conference' wants is needed.  

Are they happy with a city-wide closed system? (After the AD votes lately, that answer is YES).  OR, is it now in the best interest of those programs that want 'more' to consider their own fate and look beyond?  Sadly, I can never see the FWCS schools doing the latter.... 

And the beat goes on

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3 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

If you honestly believe that the Cadets of today are on par or even on a trajectory that would allow them to compete with the HHS/CHS teams of today; Then I have some swamp land in Arizona to sell you.  

"Compete with HHS/CHS teams of today"? Last year they lost to Homestead 7-0 and Carroll 24-14. That's competitive in my book. 

It sounds like you are writing off Coach Eshbach after just one season. He has some big shoes to fill after Mannigel departed, but I'd like to see how he does after a couple of years. Concordia has talent in that school.

Not sure how you ended up with swampland in Arizona. Hopefully you inherited it. If not, your credibility as a businessman just went down the toilet. 

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Just now, BTF said:

"Compete with HHS/CHS teams of today"? Last year they lost to Homestead 7-0 and Carroll 24-14. That's competitive in my book. 

It sounds like you are writing off Coach Eshbach after just one season. He has some big shoes to fill after Mannigel departed, but I'd like to see how he does after a couple of years. Concordia has talent in that school.

Not sure how you ended up with swampland in Arizona. Hopefully you inherited it. If not, your credibility as a businessman just went down the toilet. 

History DON'T lie.....  

As for the Swamp Land,  Perhaps I could sell a bridge over the East River instead?  (apparently you don't get the sarcasm).

And as Jay-Z said I am NOT a businessman  I am a BUSINESS, man!    Big difference

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20 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

History DON'T lie.....  

Then why are you discrediting Concordia's history against Homestead and Carroll?

25 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

As for the Swamp Land,  Perhaps I could sell a bridge over the East River instead?  (apparently you don't get the sarcasm).

It was funny, I'll give you that.

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3 hours ago, HHF said:

After watching Westfield toy with Merrillville last night, I have no hope for 6A northern football.  Frankly, the one 6A school in the north that is the most likely to eventually break thru is Elkhart.

Terrifying to see in person from the perspective of 6A northern football. I'm not sure that Elkhart's athletic ceiling is all that different than Merrillville's despite the size disparity between the two schools. I thought Merrillville was athletic enough to be there with Westfield last night.

To your point, though, if a school in the north is going to have a special group come through for a big run, Elkhart is as good a candidate as any other. As it concerns mounting a sustainable challenge to the central powers, I'm not sure how Elkhart's future is any different than any of the other northern Indiana 6As if it stays in the NIC. 

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On 11/14/2021 at 6:19 AM, Mebuck said:

It was voted on and was not passed. 

A PP opinion? 

I wonder who the 3 schools could have possibly been that voted as a block to keep the system in place for the SAC as currently comprised for FB?  

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On 11/19/2021 at 3:55 PM, PDB26 said:

It would be interesting to see when schools first--outside of BD, since their program is rather well known in that regard--started hiring S&C coaches. I think S&C is one of the vital differentiators--it may be the most significant--but the competitive environment is the most significant to me. Why else should schools hire S&C coaches except to gain an advantage in a highly competitive environment?

There's a lot of truth here, especially in that better competition breeds better programs, and that Homestead and Carroll have benefited by playing in the SAC. Your overall point about competition is well taken.

When you look into it more closely, surprisingly, there isn't a ton of crossover between the two leagues. Is it fair to say the MIC has toughened up the HCC, maybe. Avon, Brownsburg, Fishers, and HSE have the most crossover with MIC schools, somewhere between 10-20 games over the past 15-25 years, and Carmel has played Noblesville a lot, which doesn't seem to have toughened up the Millers too much. I think it's more likely the HCC schools are in a similarly ultra-competitive environment to the one that the MIC schools are in, and the schools in HCC, like those in the MIC, aren't--with the exception of Carmel--wildly different in their enrollments. I guess this should be a positive for northern Indiana's 6As; now they just have to find a way to play each other all the time. 

Maybe Snider & Dwenger have suffered with Homestead and Carroll additional then, taking away the chance for 2 OOC games ???

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12 hours ago, HHF said:

After watching Westfield toy with Merrillville last night, I have no hope for 6A northern football.  Frankly, the one 6A school in the north that is the most likely to eventually break thru is Elkhart.  They have the best combination of enrollment (3000) and access to athletic talent to compete with the Indy megas.  Last night was the end of the story for Merrillville in 6A.  They will reclass to 5A and become a 5A state power.  The school is looking forward to moving to 5A, based on comments made by the coach back in July.  

I'm doubting M-ville will be a 5A power. Maybe good, but let's not put the bar that high yet. 

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12 hours ago, psaboy said:

Maybe Snider & Dwenger have suffered with Homestead and Carroll additional then, taking away the chance for 2 OOC games ???

In the general sense, losing the ability to schedule some games of your choice is likely bad--especially when it requires you to play games against some inferior opponents--but I probably disagree that playing Homestead and Carroll affects Snider or Dwenger negatively. Homestead and Carroll would be two reasonable programs to add in an OOC scenario if they weren't already required to play them. 

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9 hours ago, PDB26 said:

In the general sense, losing the ability to schedule some games of your choice is likely bad--especially when it requires you to play games against some inferior opponents--but I probably disagree that playing Homestead and Carroll affects Snider or Dwenger negatively. Homestead and Carroll would be two reasonable programs to add in an OOC scenario if they weren't already required to play them. 

I agree. And ten years ago this schedule would more than prepare SAC 6A teams for the tournament. There was always that one team in Indy that was a roadblock. Out of all their mega schools, at least one would put together a team that was untouchable. Ten years later, and now you have 4 or 5 teams of that same quality making the challenge even more difficult. The key now to deep tournament runs for the big schools of the SAC is the ability to schedule a couple of non-conference foes. Heck, I'd settle for one at this point. 

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41 minutes ago, BTF said:

I agree. And ten years ago this schedule would more than prepare SAC 6A teams for the tournament. There was always that one team in Indy that was a roadblock. Out of all their mega schools, at least one would put together a team that was untouchable. Ten years later, and now you have 4 or 5 teams of that same quality making the challenge even more difficult. The key now to deep tournament runs for the big schools of the SAC is the ability to schedule a couple of non-conference foes. Heck, I'd settle for one at this point. 

I said that 2 days ago!  Thanks for reading and then re-posting what I said back then......🤣

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On 11/20/2021 at 8:12 PM, Yuccaguy said:

A PP opinion? 

I wonder who the 3 schools could have possibly been that voted as a block to keep the system in place for the SAC as currently comprised for FB?  

From what I understand it has to be  Unanimous. Honestly it is a scheduling nightmare. No school that's good wants to pick up schools like south side, Wayne or even North.

People also need to keep in mind, it's high school football. The majority of the the fans move on after their child graduates. Only some of us high school football junkies are screaming for change.

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2 minutes ago, Mebuck said:

From what I understand it has to be  Unanimous. Honestly it is a scheduling nightmare. No school that's good wants to pick up schools like south side, Wayne or even North.

People also need to keep in mind, it's high school football. The majority of the the fans move on after their child graduates. Only some of us high school football junkies are screaming for change.

It was NOT unanimous!! 

And there have been and will be schools that would pick up the "middling schools" of the SAC...Did before and MORE SO now!   

You that are PP supporters (moniker) are the people that are in line with the current system, IMO....its to your benefit.   And conversely, the FWCS Schools are fine with the system in place....   Notice the vote total?  

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

No clue what you said two days ago and certainly not enough time to search. 

Perhaps you should read the thread! 

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On 11/21/2021 at 9:12 PM, Yuccaguy said:

It was NOT unanimous!! 

And there have been and will be schools that would pick up the "middling schools" of the SAC...Did before and MORE SO now!   

You that are PP supporters (moniker) are the people that are in line with the current system, IMO....its to your benefit.   And conversely, the FWCS Schools are fine with the system in place....   Notice the vote total?  

Perhaps you should read the thread! 

I didn't say it was unanimous, 

I said it has to be unanimous, as in unanimous to pass. 

Honestly I really don't give a flying #$%@. Just tired of hearing people talk about it over and over.. I honestly don't care who Dwenger plays I will be there. I am done till July. Happy Holidays and Happy new year. 

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8 minutes ago, Mebuck said:

I didn't say it was unanimous, 

I said it has to be unanimous, as in unanimous to pass. 

Honestly I really don't give a flying #$%@. Just tired of hearing people talk about it over and over.. I honestly don't care who Dwenger plays I will be there. I am done till July. Happy Holidays and Happy new year. 

Because it doesn't affect Dwenger as much as it does Snider, Homestead, and Carroll. Dwenger will drop back down to 4a and get their state title. 

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23 minutes ago, BTF said:

Because it doesn't affect Dwenger as much as it does Snider, Homestead, and Carroll. Dwenger will drop back down to 4a and get their state title. 

If I’m either one of the Catholic schools in the SAC I tell the IHSAA we volunteer to stay in 5A or 6A. I wonder if there is such a thing as a volunteer bump up? 🤷🏻‍♂️

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