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State Championship Predictions


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2 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

So for those in the know, what kind of drop off, if any, is expected from Center Grove next season? 

Would still say Center Grove is still the favorite until they otherwise lose, but they aren’t runaway favorites like they were this year. Believe they return a fair amount of starters but obviously don’t have anywhere near the top end talent from this years senior class.

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3 hours ago, temptation said:

This is where I’m at too.  I might have agreed mid-season but the Trojans looked mortal over the last month of the season and Lawrence North and Westfield are nowhere near the greatest over the years.

Still a top 20 outfit nationally.

Yeah, it's kinda tough to look like world-beaters 28 games in a row.  

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3 hours ago, BTF said:

Ben Davis of the 90's. Lawrence Central was pretty good in 2012. Obviously Warren Central in the 2000's. Snider 2004 with a healthy Quale Lewis was pretty solid.

My mind went to the teams that were leading the pack from 1999–2004--just leading into that run of dominance from Warren--that I would like to be in a game with this CG team. Ben Davis, Penn, Snider, Valpo, Warren--obviously--were all physically impressive teams. Ben Davis went three out of four from '99–'02. Incidentally, that same stretch was when Penn was as close as they ever got to playing at Ben Davis's level. A championship loss to Ben Davis in '99, win against CG in '00, and a couple of tough beats at the hands of Valpo in '01 and, especially, '02. That '02 team was ranked in the top ten nationally--after a big win at Ben Davis--and, despite getting eliminated in the Regional, was possibly the best team Penn ever fielded. Valpo had a mini-moment in 2001 and 2002. They were big and ran well with Samardzija leading a trio of guys on the outside. Snider, short of some ball security issues in '03, I think in a year when they had three 1000 yard rushers, was super talented and could just have easily made back to back trips to face Warren that year and in '04.

I think it would be fun to see those teams out there against this CG squad. Who knows what the results would be, but those teams could play today. 

Edited by PDB26
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7 hours ago, PDB26 said:

My mind went to the teams that were leading the pack from 1999–2004--just leading into that run of dominance from Warren--that I would like to be in a game with this CG team. Ben Davis, Penn, Snider, Valpo, Warren--obviously--were all physically impressive teams. Ben Davis went three out of four from '99–'02. Incidentally, that same stretch was when Penn was as close as they ever got to playing at Ben Davis's level. A championship loss to Ben Davis in '99, win against CG in '00, and a couple of tough beats at the hands of Valpo in '01 and, especially, '02. That '02 team was ranked in the top ten nationally--after a big win at Ben Davis--and, despite getting eliminated in the Regional, was possibly the best team Penn ever fielded. Valpo had a mini-moment in 2001 and 2002. They were big and ran well with Samardzija leading a trio of guys on the outside. Snider, short of some ball security issues in '03, I think in a year when they had three 1000 yard rushers, was super talented and could just have easily made back to back trips to face Warren that year and in '04.

I think it would be fun to see those teams out there against this CG squad. Who knows what the results would be, but those teams could play today. 

Under the leadership of Chris Geesman, Penn's run of five state titles definitely puts them up there with the best programs of all time. I'm sure one or more of those teams could be added to the "best of all time" conversation. 

The Snider team that you speak of was '04. Snider's D1 running back sitting out with an ankle injury coupled with a couple of uncharacteristic unforced errors aided Warren Central's 12pt win for the state title. Before Lewis's ankle injury, that was probably Sniders best team of all time. 

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10 hours ago, Grover said:

Yeah, it's kinda tough to look like world-beaters 28 games in a row.  

TV announcers said the prefect thing after they had talked to Coach Moore. Coach Moore stated there was a period in time they were the "Hunters" and now they are the "Hunted" and he feels it is very tough being the "Hunted". What some like Temp don't take into account is what Coaching Staffs endure. when you are winning it is not an easy task to keep teenage boys grounded. By that I mean complacent or overzealous. It is a constant battle for coaches to work on them sticking with the fundamentals even if they have major talent. I think Coach Moore and his staff have done a masterful job doing just that. Congrats to the Trojans Grover, they definitely earned that 28-0 back to back champions.

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On 11/28/2021 at 12:12 AM, Bobref said:

 

Chronic whiner. I don’t suppose there’s a possibility his usual disregard for officials is amplified by the identity of the Referee on this crew? In any event, I left at halftime. But I spoke with 7 other observers who also watched the first half. The overwhelming consensus was that the crew was having a very nice game.

 

I may be a chronic whinner, but, it is because you are the chronic know it all.  Sure, I know several crews.  But, this is one that I have no knowledge of before this game.

 

1) Mouth pieces hanging from the face mask for the majority of the time of several players on the field.  Is this not a flagable offense?  Of course we all want to look like a pro but should we not want our kids to be as safe as possible?

2)  Are the teams to be on the field following halftime once the clock runs out before the extra 3 minutes?  Westfield was not and it took several minutes before they came out.  Should a flag have been thrown?

3) The helmet infraction I think was a poor call.  It looked as if the player put his helmet outside of the body on contact.

4) As for the facemask penalty on the long completion before half on Westfield sideline.  I will give the crew that one as they are only a 5 man crew and could not be in place to see that one. 

 

I know several years ago you said that going from a 5 man crew during the season to a 7 man crew during the month of November would be near impossible.  What are your thoughts today?

 

 

On 11/28/2021 at 12:12 AM, Bobref said:

 

Chronic whiner. I don’t suppose there’s a possibility his usual disregard for officials is amplified by the identity of the Referee on this crew? In any event, I left at halftime. But I spoke with 7 other observers who also watched the first half. The overwhelming consensus was that the crew was having a very nice game.

 

I may be a chronic whinner, but, it is because you are the chronic know it all.  Sure, I know several crews.  But, this is one that I have no knowledge of before this game.

 

1) Mouth pieces hanging from the face mask for the majority of the time of several players on the field.  Is this not a flagable offense?  Of course we all want to look like a pro but should we not want our kids to be as safe as possible?

2)  Are the teams to be on the field following halftime once the clock runs out before the extra 3 minutes?  Westfield was not and it took several minutes before they came out.  Should a flag have been thrown?

3) The helmet infraction I think was a poor call.  It looked as if the player put his helmet outside of the body on contact.

4) As for the facemask penalty on the long completion before half on Westfield sideline.  I will give the crew that one as they are only a 5 man crew and could not be in place to see that one. 

 

I know several years ago you said that going from a 5 man crew during the season to a 7 man crew during the month of November would be near impossible.  What are your thoughts today?

 

 

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On 11/24/2021 at 10:16 AM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Alright - I'm in for these three. @CLKeller16 and @MDAlum82 - for every North champion, you will donate $5. For every South champion, I will donate $10 (one "bet" for the each of you.

@Azi - I accept your caveat! For every 1A-4A and 6A North champion or Cathedral victory, you will donate $5. For every 1A-4A and 6A South champion or Zionsville victory, I will donate $5.

 

Thanks boys! Easy way to raise at least another $90 for the GID!

So with the winners of Lutheran, Andrean, Gibson Southern, Mt Vernon, Cathedral and Center Grove - @CLKeller16 and @MDAlum82 - that is $50 for me to donate to the GID, and $5 each for you thanks to Andrean.

@Azi - with our modified "bet", I have $20 to donate to the GID, and you have $10 to donate.

 

To donate - just click on the 2021-2022 - Budget box at the top of every page. Once you click on that, a box will pop up with how much you want to donate.  Input your amount, then click "Donate". The next page will show you the options of paying by PayPal, Venmo, or check. Depending on what option you select - you will see each of those user names/addresses to send to. I just sent my $70 in via Venmo on top of my original $30 donation earlier in the year. Thanks for "playing"!

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2 hours ago, Major said:

I may be a chronic whinner, but, it is because you are the chronic know it all.  Sure, I know several crews.  But, this is one that I have no knowledge of before this game.

 

1) Mouth pieces hanging from the face mask for the majority of the time of several players on the field.  Is this not a flagable offense?  Of course we all want to look like a pro but should we not want our kids to be as safe as possible?

2)  Are the teams to be on the field following halftime once the clock runs out before the extra 3 minutes?  Westfield was not and it took several minutes before they came out.  Should a flag have been thrown?

3) The helmet infraction I think was a poor call.  It looked as if the player put his helmet outside of the body on contact.

4) As for the facemask penalty on the long completion before half on Westfield sideline.  I will give the crew that one as they are only a 5 man crew and could not be in place to see that one. 

 

I know several years ago you said that going from a 5 man crew during the season to a 7 man crew during the month of November would be near impossible.  What are your thoughts today?

1.) I didn't see egregious players with no mouthpiece in. Are you sure your aren't over exaggerating.

2.) I will have to look into this not sure what you are refering too.

3.) So would you say it was targeting? Honestly we all had benefit of replay. On the field though in live action I would have agreed with helmet call. Sure when you do the replay it may not have been but that wasn't a benefit to the officials during the game in live action and there is no Instant Replay in HS football.

4.) You said it.

My only question for you is if you feel you are so perfect and enjoy calling out officials (some by name) why aren't you a current NFL official (serious question). My personal feeling is you are a current official, you are upset your crew wasn't on the field doing a game. Therefor you are hypercritical of the crews that were selected and pointing out some errors and calling out officials by name with an axe to grind. Perhaps your crew made more errors in other games and that is the reason you were not selected for the State Championship, but perhaps not. I have no idea on that but I think your posts have been in poor taste with an axe to grind and it shows. No offense but an observation from someone who has nothing to do with officiating.

@Bobrefwhile he and I haven't always agreed on everything. He is at least forthcoming and honest. @Yuccaguyclaimed not to be perfect (no crew is) but I thought they did a fantastic job. You seem to want more respect for  your crew (if my hunch is correct), but you are failing miserably in gaining it if that is the case. Be humble and plug away for next year.

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1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

1.) I didn't see egregious players with no mouthpiece in. Are you sure your aren't over exaggerating.

2.) I will have to look into this not sure what you are refering too.

3.) So would you say it was targeting? Honestly we all had benefit of replay. On the field though in live action I would have agreed with helmet call. Sure when you do the replay it may not have been but that wasn't a benefit to the officials during the game in live action and there is no Instant Replay in HS football.

4.) You said it.

My only question for you is if you feel you are so perfect and enjoy calling out officials (some by name) why aren't you a current NFL official (serious question). My personal feeling is you are a current official, you are upset your crew wasn't on the field doing a game. Therefor you are hypercritical of the crews that were selected and pointing out some errors and calling out officials by name with an axe to grind. Perhaps your crew made more errors in other games and that is the reason you were not selected for the State Championship, but perhaps not. I have no idea on that but I think your posts have been in poor taste with an axe to grind and it shows. No offense but an observation from someone who has nothing to do with officiating.

@Bobrefwhile he and I haven't always agreed on everything. He is at least forthcoming and honest. @Yuccaguyclaimed not to be perfect (no crew is) but I thought they did a fantastic job. You seem to want more respect for  your crew (if my hunch is correct), but you are failing miserably in gaining it if that is the case. Be humble and plug away for next year.

 No need for any sort of praise or anything like that.  Those that know me, are well aware that I humble as can be, and always looking to move others forward.

Absolutely looking forward to next year's challenges.

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59 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I know several years ago you said that going from a 5 man crew during the season to a 7 man crew during the month of November would be near impossible.  What are your thoughts today?

I am solidly in favor of going to 7 man crews in the upper levels of the playoffs. You don’t have to go any further than the first half of the 1A game to see an example of the benefit. There was a play that covered about 20 yds. and ended up with the runner diving over the pylon with the ball. The Head Linesman was forced to make a call while he was still running down the sideline trailing the play. Not his fault at all. It’s just a play that’s impossible to cover adequately with a 5 man crew.  With a 7 man crew, there would have been an official stationary on that pylon, letting the play come to him.

The knock against going to 7 is that it introduces some unfamiliar mechanics, and a couple of new faces, to an officiating crew that has demonstrated excellence at 5 man mechanics … and does so at a time when a mistake or miscommunication could cost a team their season.

In my opinion, the difficulties in transitioning to a 7 man crew at, for example, the Regional level, are overrated. By that time, you have plenty of good officials available to supplement the 5 man crews. Let the crews choose their own additional officials, but the IHSAA should place stringent requirements to qualify as eligible for selection. In 2017, my last year of officiating on the field, I worked as the back judge on a 7 man crew in the North-South All Star game. I had never worked as a B on this crew, and our deep wings were 2 college guys I met for the first time at the dinner the night before. Some pregame study of the mechanics, and a nice pregame conference, and everything went fine. Is it optimal? Of course not. But the additional coverage is a benefit that far outweighs any transition issues, IMO.

But another benefit that cannot be ignored these days is that expansion of the number of officials who get to work further in the playoffs is a sound retention strategy at a time when officials are leaving for a variety of reasons, one of which is frustration over the inability to advance in the tournament. However, I have not yet been able to convince anyone who matters of the wisdom of my viewpoint.

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2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I am solidly in favor of going to 7 man crews in the upper levels of the playoffs. You don’t have to go any further than the first half of the 1A game to see an example of the benefit. There was a play that covered about 20 yds. and ended up with the runner diving over the pylon with the ball. The Head Linesman was forced to make a call while he was still running down the sideline trailing the play. Not his fault at all. It’s just a play that’s impossible to cover adequately with a 5 man crew.  With a 7 man crew, there would have been an official stationary on that pylon, letting the play come to him.

The knock against going to 7 is that it introduces some unfamiliar mechanics, and a couple of new faces, to an officiating crew that has demonstrated excellence at 5 man mechanics … and does so at a time when a mistake or miscommunication could cost a team their season.

In my opinion, the difficulties in transitioning to a 7 man crew at, for example, the Regional level, are overrated. By that time, you have plenty of good officials available to supplement the 5 man crews. Let the crews choose their own additional officials, but the IHSAA should place stringent requirements to qualify as eligible for selection. In 2017, my last year of officiating on the field, I worked as the back judge on a 7 man crew in the North-South All Star game. I had never worked as a B on this crew, and our deep wings were 2 college guys I met for the first time at the dinner the night before. Some pregame study of the mechanics, and a nice pregame conference, and everything went fine. Is it optimal? Of course not. But the additional coverage is a benefit that far outweighs any transition issues, IMO.

But another benefit that cannot be ignored these days is that expansion of the number of officials who get to work further in the playoffs is a sound retention strategy at a time when officials are leaving for a variety of reasons, one of which is frustration over the inability to advance in the tournament. However, I have not yet been able to convince anyone who matters of the wisdom of my viewpoint.

Did you have the white hat neatly tucked under the black and white "normal" officials hat?  😉

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10 hours ago, BTF said:

The Snider team that you speak of was '04. Snider's D1 running back sitting out with an ankle injury coupled with a couple of uncharacteristic unforced errors aided Warren Central's 12pt win for the state title. Before Lewis's ankle injury, that was probably Sniders best team of all time. 

The '03 team was impressive in its own right I think. Lewis was tough, even as a sophomore, and they had another explosive back that I can't name for the life of me. Justin Wynn was the QB, and the three of them had a ton of yards that year. To your point, the '04 team was great and absolutely took Penn apart in the semi-state. It's a shame Lewis was out for the final that year. 

Edited by PDB26
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13 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

The '03 team was impressive in its own right I think. Lewis was tough, even as a sophomore, and they had another explosive bac'k that I can't name for the life of me. Justin Wynn was the QB, and the three of them had a ton of yards that year. To your point, the '04 team was great and absolutely took Penn apart in the semi-state. It's a shame Lewis was out for the final that year. 

Agree, the '03 team was pretty solid until they hit semi-state. That was a long drive up to Penn for that game to be over after the first quarter.

LCJ Martin is the other running back you were thinking of, he was also a sophomore in '03. They graduated the same year and are ranked 3rd and 6th all time rushing. yards. They are the only two RB's to finish their careers with over nine yards per carry. The offensive line was massive. Justin Wynn went on to play at Michigan. I believe they moved him to defensive back when he got there. One lineman went to Ball State. Another was being recruited by Michigan before he got himself into trouble. 

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11 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

You seem to want more respect for  your crew (if my hunch is correct), but you are failing miserably in gaining it if that is the case. Be humble and plug away for next year.

Thank you...  I thought this was directed at our "crew"...  Obviously @Majorwho proclaims to be a both a Coach and and Unbiased Official is a total poser.  Perhaps he could DM and reveal his identity....though I already know it!   😂   

C.S.   No need to say the entire thing  (Mr. Winning Sales)  Is that enough for you?  

Edited by Yuccaguy
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9 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Thank you...  I thought this was directed at our "crew"...  Obviously @Majorwho proclaims to be a both a Coach and and Unbiased Official is a total poser.  Perhaps he could DM and reveal his identity....though I already know it!   😂   

C.S.   No need to say the entire thing  (Mr. Winning Sales)  Is that enough for you?  

I thought your crew did fine. Re-reading my post I can see where you would think that. I was more calling out the person who was calling out officials by name. You and your crew have earned my respect. You have always given good insight and I appreciate that.

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16 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Thank you...  I thought this was directed at our "crew"...  Obviously @Majorwho proclaims to be a both a Coach and and Unbiased Official is a total poser.  Perhaps he could DM and reveal his identity....though I already know it!   😂   

C.S.   No need to say the entire thing  (Mr. Winning Sales)  Is that enough for you?  

Don’t do it. I can 100% let you know, if you reveal someone’s identity you do in fact get a 30 day ban 😂. I had to make an extra account off a different IP Address during that time lol 

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3 hours ago, Olympian06 said:

Don’t do it. I can 100% let you know, if you reveal someone’s identity you do in fact get a 30 day ban 😂. I had to make an extra account off a different IP Address during that time lol 

Thank you my friend.  I just am tired of the "bitching season" that comes after EVERY sport where an official/crew just KNOWS exactly what 'they' would have done, or how to do it...  But when you offer suggestive tips on how to "get better"...Goes in one ear and out the other.

And so it goes.  This will reoccur next year in conjunction with the State Finals, I guarantee it!  

Edited by Yuccaguy
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On 11/27/2021 at 9:10 PM, Major said:

To bad the third team on the field is not up to this games standards. 

 

On 11/27/2021 at 9:23 PM, Major said:

No flag on long completion from south to north on Westfield sideline for facemask. Several Centergrove players without mouthpiece in during play. Westfield not being on the field as time expired of the halftime clock. Let’s go on and on. 

 

On 11/27/2021 at 9:47 PM, Major said:

Helmet contact was a bad call. 20 put his helmet outside the body of the ball carrier. 

Perhaps if you were an IFOA Member @Major you would have seen the HISTORY of this crew.   Since you knew NOTHING about them....

A 5A State Championship Assignment, (2) 6A State Championship Games.....ranked in the Top 5 often (#1 Multiple times)  ...  State Finals appearances among the crew in multiple sports (at least 27 amongst the crew members). 

So here's my final response to your idiotic commentary/evaluation!       

 

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1 hour ago, Yuccaguy said:

 

 

Perhaps if you were an IFOA Member @Major you would have seen the HISTORY of this crew.   Since you knew NOTHING about them....

A 5A State Championship Assignment, (2) 6A State Championship Games.....ranked in the Top 5 often (#1 Multiple times)  ...  State Finals appearances among the crew in multiple sports (at least 27 amongst the crew members). 

So here's my final response to your idiotic commentary/evaluation!       

 

Wow!  That is amazing work by 5 outstanding officials. Thanks for the further information. Well deserved pal. 

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On 11/30/2021 at 8:49 PM, Yuccaguy said:

 

 

Perhaps if you were an IFOA Member @Major you would have seen the HISTORY of this crew.   Since you knew NOTHING about them....

A 5A State Championship Assignment, (2) 6A State Championship Games.....ranked in the Top 5 often (#1 Multiple times)  ...  State Finals appearances among the crew in multiple sports (at least 27 amongst the crew members). 

So here's my final response to your idiotic commentary/evaluation!       

 

YUCA---do you officiate any college or just high school?

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