Brady Allen: Mr. Football case

[Grover]

I greatly doubt that varsity head coaches are being influenced by sports writers at the star.

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

I think the recent change that allowed all coaches to vote .vs when there were only 10 per class has removed the bias that (may or may not) have existed before.

But the bias wasn't about central Indiana...at least of what I read.  It was about Kizer receiving all 10 votes by 1A and 2A coaches....which is what powered him to his victory.  Voting in 3A and above was more balanced for both he and Bell.  That is what I read that lead to the change.  It was more based on coaches stacking the vote for candidates in certain classes, less about the geographical area.

Perhaps I missed what drove the change....let me know if I missed it.....

[gonzoron]

8 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Kizer

It's Kiser

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Read my most recent post. Coaches outside of Central Indiana aren't going to get to witness players live in Central Indiana, but they're going to get exposure to the best player on the best team in the state due to the IndyStar being the state's largest publication. A coach from Evansville is going to hear much more about a player from Central Indiana due to the Star's coverage than a player who resides up in South Bend or Fort Wayne as the IndyStar is much more polarizing than either of those regional publications. It's very rare for the IndyStar to denote coverage to a player outside Central Indiana.

That's called a bias my friend. 

Your talking about exposure from the state's largest publication.  So you don't think those same coaches read what sportswriters have to say in more regional newspapers in Bloomington, Evansville, Fort Wayne, the region, South Bend, Louisville metro, etc.?  I lived in southern Indiana...if there is bias, it can actually work the other way.  People may not care as much about Indy as you think and in some cases, it may even lead to disdain for the area.  Varsity coaches think for themselves way more than you are giving them credit.  You are merely speculating bias, with zero evidence.  I don't believe coaches that are voting are lazy.  Coaches in all classes voted for Kiser....and I am willing to bet he earned a vote or two across the state, including central Indiana.

I am going to ask you again, although its wasted breath.  Can you name any Mr. Footballs from central Indiana (metro Indpls) that should not have received the award and should have gone to someone outside the Indy metro area??  Just one.  

Its probably easier to rant on and insult...But understand, others see that as intellectually lazy.  Pedantic...nice word...

 

4 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

It's Kiser

thank you for correcting

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Bash Riprock

[Titan32]

12 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

But the bias wasn't about central Indiana...at least of what I read.  It was about Kizer receiving all 10 votes by 1A and 2A coaches....which is what powered him to his victory.  Voting in 3A and above was more balanced for both he and Bell.  That is what I read that lead to the change.  It was more based on coaches stacking the vote for candidates in certain classes, less about the geographical area.

Perhaps I missed what drove the change....let me know if I missed it.....

I have never read what specifically drove the change...but it's certainly going to be an interesting experiment for the next few seasons.

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, Grover said:

I greatly doubt that varsity head coaches are being influenced by sports writers at the star.

But they’re more likely to be exposed to players from Central Indiana due to the Star’s coverage as the largest publication in the state. 
 

Someone in Vincennes is going to be exposed to a player out of Indy before they’re exposed to a player of of the NE part of the state. 

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Your talking about exposure from the state's largest publication.  So you don't think those same coaches read what sportswriters have to say in more regional newspapers in Bloomington, Evansville, Fort Wayne, the region, South Bend, Louisville metro, etc.?  I lived in southern Indiana...if there is bias, it can actually work the other way.  People may not care as much about Indy as you think and in some cases, it may even lead to disdain for the area.  Varsity coaches think for themselves way more than you are giving them credit.  You are merely speculating bias, with zero evidence.  I don't believe coaches that are voting are lazy.  Coaches in all classes voted for Kiser....and I am willing to bet he earned a vote or two across the state, including central Indiana.

I am going to ask you again, although its wasted breath.  Can you name any Mr. Footballs from central Indiana (metro Indpls) that should not have received the award and should have gone to someone outside the Indy metro area??  Just one.  

Its probably easier to rant on and insult...But understand, others see that as intellectually lazy.  Pedantic...nice word...

 

thank you for correcting

 

No I don’t think a coach from Columbus IN is going to have the same access to high school football coverage through the NW Times as he would the Indy Star. Silly analogy.

Again you’re still caught up over one year: 2018. Why? 2018 doesn’t negate the other 30 years worth of winners that show the award has been given to a large class player from Central Indiana more times than not. 2 hours ago you acknowledged that you understood what an outlier meant? Were you lying?

Edited December 8, 2021 by Footballking16

[IndplsCathedral_Dad]

5 hours ago, Grover said:

Russ Yeast should have won in 2016 but the voters went with the QB instead. 

McCahill was slighted because he only had one year body of work.  Same applied to Russ Yeast obviously.

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

am going to ask you again, although its wasted breath.  Can you name any Mr. Footballs from central Indiana (metro Indpls) that should not have received the award and should have gone to someone outside the Indy metro area??  Just one.

What does it matter what I think? I’m not a voter therefore my opinion is irrelevant. Pick any year between now and 1992 and I’m sure you can make a legitimate case for more than just the actual winner for different players all over the state in that given year.

But that’s my point. When in doubt the award typically goes to large class player that hails from Central Indiana. The data openly suggests and confirms that. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Footballking16

[IndplsCathedral_Dad]

I would be shocked if they went back to back at the same school.  They are trying to level the playing field in the State and I would be very surprised if Allen did not win this award.  You have to keep the ENTIRE state relevant.  Kiser three years ago and before that you had Jaylon Smith.  I don't consider Columbus to be out of the Indy metro area, sorry Markell Jones.

[oldtimeqb]

2 hours ago, gonzoron said:

It's Kiser

Who’s Keyser Soze?

 

[gonzoron]

4 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

Who’s Keyser Soze?

 

I don't know. I'm voting for Woody Allen.

[Grover]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

But they’re more likely to be exposed to players from Central Indiana due to the Star’s coverage as the largest publication in the state. 
 

Someone in Vincennes is going to be exposed to a player out of Indy before they’re exposed to a player of of the NE part of the state. 

Maybe.  I live in the Indy area and don't subscribe to the Star.  Why would a coach in another part of the state given how the Star obviously has it in for the rest of the state?

[Grover]

51 minutes ago, IndplsCathedral_Dad said:

I would be shocked if they went back to back at the same school.  They are trying to level the playing field in the State and I would be very surprised if Allen did not win this award.  You have to keep the ENTIRE state relevant.  Kiser three years ago and before that you had Jaylon Smith.  I don't consider Columbus to be out of the Indy metro area, sorry Markell Jones.

I'd just like to see it go to the best player.  Call me crazy.

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, Grover said:

Maybe.  I live in the Indy area and don't subscribe to the Star.  Why would a coach in another part of the state given how the Star obviously has it in for the rest of the state?

I live in Indy and don’t subscribe to the Star either and every 15th tweet on my Twitter feed is some kind of repost or Star related article. Perks of being the states largest publication I guess 🤷‍♂️

[temptation]

3 minutes ago, Grover said:

I'd just like to see it go to the best player.  Call me crazy.

How do you determine that with all of the different positions on the field?

Recruiting rankings?

[DumfriesYMCA]

Mr football should probably be an award that’s more than just about football…or at least success on the field. 

and imo it should be a longer process.

maybe midseason have teams/coaches make their nominees…they know who the best players/leaders/humans are on their teams…which kids are also doing great academically while maintaining on field success….then by the end of the regular season maybe narrow that list down to 100 or so voted on by head coaches/coordinators (limit 3 to team for safe measures lol) 

then from there let it play out and maybe have a list of 25 semi finalists after sectional championships/before regionals.  

conduct interviews to those 25….get it down to say 10 finalists before the state finals.

get the names out there earlier…make it a process and make it mean something. 

I can argue until I’m blue in the face that Brady is the best player in the state…that’s my opinion…I can argue the stats too for it all day every day…the same can be done by CG fans with Curry or any of the other outstanding players on other teams too

….point is, this award means too much to have the finalists decided after all football is over…and it means too much to have it just voted on without consideration for who these players are off the field and apart from their amazing stats…or what very flawed recruiting system/ranking site says about them. 

[Footballking16]

8 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Mr football should probably be an award that’s more than just about football…or at least success on the field. 

and imo it should be a longer process.

maybe midseason have teams/coaches make their nominees…they know who the best players/leaders/humans are on their teams…which kids are also doing great academically while maintaining on field success….then by the end of the regular season maybe narrow that list down to 100 or so voted on by head coaches/coordinators (limit 3 to team for safe measures lol) 

then from there let it play out and maybe have a list of 25 semi finalists after sectional championships/before regionals.  

conduct interviews to those 25….get it down to say 10 finalists before the state finals.

get the names out there earlier…make it a process and make it mean something. 

I can argue until I’m blue in the face that Brady is the best player in the state…that’s my opinion…I can argue the stats too for it all day every day…the same can be done by CG fans with Curry or any of the other outstanding players on other teams too

….point is, this award means too much to have the finalists decided after all football is over…and it means too much to have it just voted on without consideration for who these players are off the field and apart from their amazing stats…or what very flawed recruiting system/ranking site says about them. 

Honestly if it’s going to be a true best player award, need to scratch the idea that the best player is automatically a senior. If Mr. Football is truly designed to crown the best football player, it needs to be an open award.

Honestly, I’m pretty anti-participation award but I wouldn’t necessarily mind them giving out a POY award to all classes. At the very worst a big class (4A-6A) and small class (1A-3A) award. 

[DumfriesYMCA]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Honestly if it’s going to be a true best player award, need to scratch the idea that the best player is automatically a senior. If Mr. Football is truly designed to crown the best football player, it needs to be an open award.

Honestly, I’m pretty anti-participation award but I wouldn’t necessarily mind them giving out a POY award to all classes. At the very worst a big class (4A-6A) and small class (1A-3A) award. 

I think best player is too biased.

The best player in the state a few years ago by far and away was GK3…and I don’t even think he was a finalist….and he didn’t even get his 5 Star bump until January after he early enrolled.  I don’t care what anyone says…we all seen his Junior film shared on here and followed him for his senior year.  But everyone wants to talk about kiser vs bell as being the best. 

there is a definite divide between “Best for winning this award” and “best damn football player in Indiana period”…that’s not to say I think this year there is that though lol

 

I definitely think Brady is a top 25 prospect in the country and a 5 star prospect and if anyone wants to argue…

 

http://www.hudl.com/v/2GBzfm

 

40 seconds in.  State finals game. Takes snap, surveys, evades blitz, runs to his left….while running to his left he throws a ball from the 27 yard line to the opposing 26 yard line…that’s where the ball was caught (47/48ish air yards).  Absolute dime only where Rory could catch it… in stride too.  Made the throw while a LB was coming at him. That’s a 50 yard bomb, with precision made live in game in a clutch moment while running to his left throwing across his body. 5 star arm talent no doubt and then some imo  

[Footballking16]

32 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I think best player is too biased.

The best player in the state a few years ago by far and away was GK3…and I don’t even think he was a finalist….and he didn’t even get his 5 Star bump until January after he early enrolled.  I don’t care what anyone says…we all seen his Junior film shared on here and followed him for his senior year.  But everyone wants to talk about kiser vs bell as being the best. 

there is a definite divide between “Best for winning this award” and “best damn football player in Indiana period”…that’s not to say I think this year there is that though lol

 

I definitely think Brady is a top 25 prospect in the country and a 5 star prospect and if anyone wants to argue…

 

http://www.hudl.com/v/2GBzfm

 

40 seconds in.  State finals game. Takes snap, surveys, evades blitz, runs to his left….while running to his left he throws a ball from the 27 yard line to the opposing 26 yard line…that’s where the ball was caught (47/48ish air yards).  Absolute dime only where Rory could catch it… in stride too.  Made the throw while a LB was coming at him. That’s a 50 yard bomb, with precision made live in game in a clutch moment while running to his left throwing across his body. 5 star arm talent no doubt and then some imo  

Drayk Bowen, a Junior, just won Indiana Gatorade Player of the Year. Have no qualms with it either. He wasn’t eligible for Mr. Football. I think if you really want Mr. Football to be associated with any kind of best player award, it needs to be open to all classes.

[FastpacedO]

8 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

The best player in the state a few years ago by far and away was GK3…and I don’t even think he was a finalist….and he didn’t even get his 5 Star bump until January after he early enrolled.  I don’t care what anyone says…we all seen his Junior film shared on here and followed him for his senior year.  But everyone wants to talk about kiser vs bell as being the best. 

You can say that for yourself. However while you say that, there is a reason David Bell is entering the NFL draft just like George Karlaftis so he must have been (still is) pretty darn good. Jack Kiser winning it as a QB has been a pretty darn good LB for Notre Dame (his 66 yd pick 6 was pretty awesome against Wisconsin). So I don't think it was a far stretch for people mentioning Bell and Kiser. GK should have been included in discussions but I wouldn't say "far and away" as all 3 have performed very well at the college level (2 of them Bell and GK leaving early for NFL draft) and I think you will see all 3 in the NFL.

 

That being said former Mr. Football Terry McLaurin was spectacular his JR and SR year. He won the award and was a no brainer. Went to Ohio State and was pretty much a utility WR, did all the little things like blocking etc while being overshadowed by WR's like Paris Campbell. He hits the NFL and shows what he was capable of all along even though OSU didn't utilize him in that manner as much. While Campbell was drafted ahead of McLaurin, Terry has been on a roll in the NFL doing things we watched him do in HS.

[DE]

The state finals was the first time I was able to watch Brady Allen and GS play. 
 

I was very impressed, as I was with all 12 teams. Allen, and maybe it was because of his #, immediately reminded me of a young Peyton Manning. 
 

Whomever wins Mr. Football, is very well deserving.  Best wishes to all. 

[DE]

47 minutes ago, DE said:

The state finals was the first time I was able to watch Brady Allen and GS play. 
 

I was very impressed, as I was with all 12 18 teams (officiating crews added).  Allen, and maybe it was because of his #, immediately reminded me of a young Peyton Manning. 
 

Whomever wins Mr. Football, is very well deserving.  Best wishes to all. 

***Edit***

[DumfriesYMCA]

2 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

You can say that for yourself. However while you say that, there is a reason David Bell is entering the NFL draft just like George Karlaftis so he must have been (still is) pretty darn good. Jack Kiser winning it as a QB has been a pretty darn good LB for Notre Dame (his 66 yd pick 6 was pretty awesome against Wisconsin). So I don't think it was a far stretch for people mentioning Bell and Kiser. GK should have been included in discussions but I wouldn't say "far and away" as all 3 have performed very well at the college level (2 of them Bell and GK leaving early for NFL draft) and I think you will see all 3 in the NFL.

 

That being said former Mr. Football Terry McLaurin was spectacular his JR and SR year. He won the award and was a no brainer. Went to Ohio State and was pretty much a utility WR, did all the little things like blocking etc while being overshadowed by WR's like Paris Campbell. He hits the NFL and shows what he was capable of all along even though OSU didn't utilize him in that manner as much. While Campbell was drafted ahead of McLaurin, Terry has been on a roll in the NFL doing things we watched him do in HS.

I’m a huge David bell fan and think he is the best WR in this class…but GK3 was just different.  He was throwing players 5 yards with ease….no matter how many double/triple teams he got or chip blocks….the QB was immediately trying to evade him.  I’ve never seen anything like it….and his film is probably top 10 for me in terms of pure dominance that I’ve seen from a HS player.  (Derrick henry #1 of course) 

It is just my opinion though, you’re right….I just know that I like David bell a lot…but still remember that nobody could stop GK3 and even carried over into his college career where he still was a menace against some of the best OL in the country.  B1G is known for elite OL…and GK3 still wrecked them as a freshman 

 

GK3 just reminds me so much of JJ Watt.  Everything about him and I think that comparison is deserved 

[Bash Riprock]

17 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

No I don’t think a coach from Columbus IN is going to have the same access to high school football coverage through the NW Times as he would the Indy Star. Silly analogy.

Again you’re still caught up over one year: 2018. Why? 2018 doesn’t negate the other 30 years worth of winners that show the award has been given to a large class player from Central Indiana more times than not. 2 hours ago you acknowledged that you understood what an outlier meant? Were you lying?

I think coaches with the responsibility to vote will do their due diligence.  You can make the same statement from a coach that fancies the FW publication over the IndyStar.  I think there is always the potential for some regional bias...not just central Indiana.  Stop it with the outlier stuff....You have no idea what I do for a living and how statistical principles play a part.  I hate to break it to you, but you are not always the smartest guy in the room...and no level of snarkiness and insults will cover up that fact.

When it comes to outliers, I have challenged you to provide an example...just one...where an Indy metro player was awarded Mr. Football over a more deserving non-Indy metro player.  While doing so doesn't automatically validate the causal factor is coach voting bias, it would at least strengthen your argument.  You have provided nothing other than your constant hot air.  You have NOTHING.