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MIC & HCC realignment


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What if.......Carmel does not join a conference and stays independent? 

Or; maybe people in the SAC can confirm; but I believe Carroll and Homestead are only in the conference for football and basketball. The other sports are independent. I can see something like that happening for Carmel and CG. 

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

How on earth does a state-funded public school become an out of state athletic factory? 

Who on Earth is paying $30k a year to send their kid to a public high school in Indiana?

Do you think before you type?

I mean…Carmel parents might pay for it 😂😂

 

 

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4 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I mean…Carmel parents might pay for it 😂😂

 

 

If any Indiana public school has the hubris and the cash to turn itself into an academy, its Carmel.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Irishman said:

What if.......Carmel does not join a conference and stays independent? 

Or; maybe people in the SAC can confirm; but I believe Carroll and Homestead are only in the conference for football and basketball. The other sports are independent. I can see something like that happening for Carmel and CG. 

Get the darned I69/I65 6A thing going with FB!!!   

There is no need for them to look at the future if they are the "outliers(SAC/MIC)" currently other than this situation.  I totally believe that they could cobble together a 9 game schedule without any issue amongst the current IHSAA 6A schools who want to participate.  

DAC do I hear ya?????

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7 hours ago, Titan32 said:

Ok....I'll be the guy to call out the elephant in the room.  Did the MIC just say....hey CG and Carmel....we hear you guys think you are too "culturally" uppity uppity to play with us?  Does this have racial and socioeconomic overtones....or at least perceived ones that the MIC perceives CG and Carmel have?

I think the shooting at the Carmel/BD game was the straw that broke the Camel's back. Carmel's fans weren't going to put up with that. I heard this rumor immediately  afterwards from credible sources.  

 

Also, FC isn't going to the MIC.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

How on earth does a state-funded public school become an out of state athletic factory? 

Who on Earth is paying $30k a year to send their kid to a public high school in Indiana?

Do you think before you type?

No he doesn't. Having been around the GID for years (even before you became a member) he has always done this (Driven T, DT, HHF) doesn't matter what screen name. Plenty more to the history but not worth going over.

14 hours ago, HHF said:

Oh yes.  Im very sure of it.  Those people in The MIC office are clearly fed up with all the elitist BS they've had to listen to over the past several years.  This was a calculated, gutsy move by an entity that knows it has still has plenty of appeal and lots of options to grow.  

Carmel could be the odd man out, and the most likely to go independent due to its mammoth size.  

CGs back to back championship run is tarnished.

The MIC comes out looking like the spurned spouse, and they will get all the sympathy and the benefit of the doubt.  

CGs run will not last forever.  In fact, we probably just saw the peak.  

How in the world does this "tarnish" Center Grove's back to back State Championship run? They wiped the floor with the MIC the last 2 years, their closest games have come from Westfield, Cathedral, and Lawrence North (only 1 of those was a MIC school and just so happens the HC of that schools was a former assistant to CG's HC). That has to be the most ignorant comment I have seen you type (and there have been plenty over the years). 

 

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16 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

No he doesn't. Having been around the GID for years (even before you became a member) he has always done this (Driven T, DT, HHF) doesn't matter what screen name. Plenty more to the history but not worth going over.

How in the world does this "tarnish" Center Grove's back to back State Championship run? They wiped the floor with the MIC the last 2 years, their closest games have come from Westfield, Cathedral, and Lawrence North (only 1 of those was a MIC school and just so happens the HC of that schools was a former assistant to CG's HC). That has to be the most ignorant comment I have seen you type (and there have been plenty over the years). 

 

CG is being publicly accused of being a disloyal member of its conference. That's an ugly accusation, but unfortunately true.   Its a black mark that stains the shine that has emanated from everything that they have accomplished in building that program.  

BTW - I appreciate the tens of thousands of page views you have contributed to my total over the years.  Ive always known you were one of my biggest readers.

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Back to the topic at hand, all sources say that CG and Carmel are presenting to the HCC powers today.  Pretty high stakes and will be interesting to see how it plays out.

A lot of rumors flying around from both sides (current HCC/MIC members) but most of it pure speculation.  If anyone has inside info or can refute these rumors please feel free.

1.   A 75% vote is required and each school gets one vote.

2.  Most see it as a package deal.  Can't see one getting accepted and the other not.

3.  More principals than AD's are on board with the additions and its hard (assuming each school gets one vote) to see AD's outweighing that.

4.  One MIC source says he's heard Avon and Cathedral have been reached out to.  Another says Lafayette Jeff and Kokomo.

Take it for what its worth.

 

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One thing that I have not seen discussed here is possible scheduling of this new 10 team HCC. In the beginning, it was nine teams, with the current teams minus Franklin Central plus Lafayette Harrison and McCutcheon. Then Lafayette Jeff was added, making it a 10 team league. The football coaches and ADs never liked the fact that playing the other 9 teams meant no non conference games. That, plus the travel involved, eventually ended in the three Lafayette schools out. If that same thinking holds true today, the HCC, if it goes back to 10 schools, would have to either go back to playing no non conference games, or perhaps forming two divisions, five teams each, playing the other four division teams plus a couple from the other division, with the two division winners playing in week 9. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. 

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29 minutes ago, HHF said:

CG is being publicly accused of being a disloyal member of its conference. That's an ugly accusation, but unfortunately true.   Its a black mark that stains the shine that has emanated from everything that they have accomplished in building that program.  

BTW - I appreciate the tens of thousands of page views you have contributed to my total over the years.  Ive always known you were one of my biggest readers.

I don't know that this is 100% accurate.  CG (and Carmel) needs to do what's best for them first and foremost.  The frustration of having small gates for the "money maker sports" because the MIC fans do not travel well isn't a secret to anyone on this board.  And though the MIC and the 6 Township schools can send out their statement about being "athletics should not drive a decision" is actually about the $.

That said, when Colleges go through a Conference re-alignment typically it is around $.  B1G bringing in Rutgers (so they can tap into the NY/NJ/East coast market), OK/TX going to SEC, etc.  What does Carmel/CG bring to the HCC?  Carmel dominates the country club sports, CG has dominated football the last 2 years, and both are pretty good at basketball.  It's not like either bring significant $ (like colleges with TV contracts) so what would be the reason to allow both into the conference?  Seems like it benefits CG/Carmel but not necessarily benefits most of the HCC Schools... A bigger gate (though most HCC schools travel pretty well), is that the draw to the HCC?  

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4 minutes ago, 1st_and_10 said:

I don't know that this is 100% accurate.  CG (and Carmel) needs to do what's best for them first and foremost.  The frustration of having small gates for the "money maker sports" because the MIC fans do not travel well isn't a secret to anyone on this board.  And though the MIC and the 6 Township schools can send out their statement about being "athletics should not drive a decision" is actually about the $.

That said, when Colleges go through a Conference re-alignment typically it is around $.  B1G bringing in Rutgers (so they can tap into the NY/NJ/East coast market), OK/TX going to SEC, etc.  What does Carmel/CG bring to the HCC?  Carmel dominates the country club sports, CG has dominated football the last 2 years, and both are pretty good at basketball.  It's not like either bring significant $ (like colleges with TV contracts) so what would be the reason to allow both into the conference?  A bigger gate?  

I'm not sure which statement from that release was more amusing, the one regarding "athletics not driving decisions" or the "culture alignment" one.

Athletics HAVE driven decisions at these schools for over two decades and its a true arms race.  Does the MIC network broadcast marching band, choir and chess club contests?  Come on.  The remaining 6 MIC schools did not want to get stuck with egg on their face so they broke up with Carmel and CG prior to allowing CG and Carmel to do the same to them, controlling the narrative and painting CG and Carmel as the "bad guys" in the process.

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2 minutes ago, 1st_and_10 said:

I don't know that this is 100% accurate.  CG (and Carmel) needs to do what's best for them first and foremost.  The frustration of having small gates for the "money maker sports" because the MIC fans do not travel well isn't a secret to anyone on this board.  And though the MIC and the 6 Township schools can send out their statement about being "athletics should not drive a decision" is actually about the $.

That said, when Colleges go through a Conference re-alignment typically it is around $.  B1G bringing in Rutgers (so they can tap into the NY/NJ/East coast market), OK/TX going to SEC, etc.  What does Carmel/CG bring to the HCC?  Carmel dominates the country club sports, CG has dominated football the last 2 years, and both are pretty good at basketball.  It's not like either bring significant $ (like colleges with TV contracts) so what would be the reason to allow both into the conference?  A bigger gate?  

There has been a very public arms race between the two conferences over the past 5 seasons about which one is the stronger league.  The MIC has always come out on top because thay always win the 6A championship, which is the ultimate prize.  From the HCC POV, this is about prestige.  They can now take the mantle of Indiana strongest football conference, which apparently does mean something to them.  They have been chasing The MIC for years, and this coup culminates that chase.  If you to put an opoen market value on both CG and CA, it would be higher than any other existing HCC school.  So how can they possibly pass that up?  As I said earlier, I believe CG is a perfect fit.  carmel will present a lot of problems for the HCC down the road due to their complete dominance in several sports.  HCC needs to decide if it wants that headache.  I actually think Carmel is extremely well positioned to go independent.  

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17 minutes ago, temptation said:

Back to the topic at hand, all sources say that CG and Carmel are presenting to the HCC powers today.  Pretty high stakes and will be interesting to see how it plays out.

A lot of rumors flying around from both sides (current HCC/MIC members) but most of it pure speculation.  If anyone has inside info or can refute these rumors please feel free.

1.   A 75% vote is required and each school gets one vote.

2.  Most see it as a package deal.  Can't see one getting accepted and the other not.

3.  More principals than AD's are on board with the additions and its hard (assuming each school gets one vote) to see AD's outweighing that.

4.  One MIC source says he's heard Avon and Cathedral have been reached out to.  Another says Lafayette Jeff and Kokomo.

Take it for what its worth.

 

Whiteland is approaching 6A status.  May be a darkhorse

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18 minutes ago, temptation said:

4  One MIC source says he's heard Avon and Cathedral have been reached out to.  Another says Lafayette Jeff and Kokomo.

 

Believe Decatur Central should be added to that list as well. They run tight with the 6 MIC Township schools in admin decisions. 

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3 minutes ago, HHF said:

There has been a very public arms race between the two conferences over the past 5 seasons about which one is the stronger league.  The MIC has always come out on top because thay always win the 6A championship, which is the ultimate prize.  From the HCC POV, this is about prestige.  They can now take the mantle of Indiana strongest football conference, which apparently does mean something to them.  They have been chasing The MIC for years, and this coup culminates that chase.  If you to put an opoen market value on both CG and CA, it would be higher than any other existing HCC school.  So how can they possibly pass that up?  As I said earlier, I believe CG is a perfect fit.  carmel will present a lot of problems for the HCC down the road due to their complete dominance in several sports.  HCC needs to decide if it wants that headache.  I actually think Carmel is extremely well positioned to go independent.  

From an outsider that all makes sense... Unless I am an AD/Coach at an HCC School in which it will become much more difficult to win a conference championship in football, country club sports, and even basketball.  Fans and parents can discuss how the HCC is the strongest conference in Indiana or even the MW, but there is literally no value in that.  Neither are bringing TV money... Other than an arguable comment about being the best conference, what is the actual value to HCC member schools?

Again, it makes complete sense for both CG & Carmel to want to join... 

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45 minutes ago, HHF said:

CG is being publicly accused of being a disloyal member of its conference. That's an ugly accusation, but unfortunately true.   Its a black mark that stains the shine that has emanated from everything that they have accomplished in building that program.  

BTW - I appreciate the tens of thousands of page views you have contributed to my total over the years.  Ive always known you were one of my biggest readers.

I think that is hyperbole. No one really thinks that. 2 seperate things. 

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If I were Franklin Central, I would be looking over my shoulder right now.  Ive always thought they were an odd fit since they joined the conference.  Technically, they are a better fit in The MIC minus CG and CA.  The HCC has a history of removing schools that it is not happy with.  FC might be in a position to control its own destiny.  Jason West, ex Warren Central and Lawrence Central Head Coach is the HC at FC.  FC is a township school like all the others in The New MIC.  

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11 minutes ago, MICFan34 said:

Believe Decatur Central should be added to that list as well. They run tight with the 6 MIC Township schools in admin decisions. 

Does DC want to be in a conference with BD and WC?  HUGE enrollment discrepency.  The Hawks like winning conference championship in The Mid State.  I dont see them leaving to play schools twice their size every week.  

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10 minutes ago, MarshallCounty said:

I think that is hyperbole. No one really thinks that. 2 seperate things. 

Ill bet the CG Superintendent is giving his principal and athletic director a serious     chewing this morning due to the embarrassment this has caused the school and the community.  Teflon Carmel flies above the radar and gets off easy.  CG takes the PR hit.  

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The article was misleading. The only reasons for leaving are because of money and competition. The 6 remaining MIC schools bring no crowds and their sports besides football and basketball are not competitive whatsoever. This has been in the works for 3 years or so. Its a money and competition thing and nothing else. The MIC will probably try and make them look bad for leaving and that is why the article said what it said.

The HCC will need to have 5 of 8 vote yes to allow Carmel and CG in. If this does not happen, CG and Carmel will be in some serious trouble for football scheduling. However, I am not sure why the HCC would turn this down. The money and competition is too good.

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21 minutes ago, HHF said:

Does DC want to be in a conference with BD and WC?  HUGE enrollment discrepency.  The Hawks like winning conference championship in The Mid State.  I dont see them leaving to play schools twice their size every week.  

Not sure but DC essentially plays all 6 of the MIC schools in every sport so it wouldn't be a foreign concept for them. 

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59 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

One thing that I have not seen discussed here is possible scheduling of this new 10 team HCC. In the beginning, it was nine teams, with the current teams minus Franklin Central plus Lafayette Harrison and McCutcheon. Then Lafayette Jeff was added, making it a 10 team league. The football coaches and ADs never liked the fact that playing the other 9 teams meant no non conference games. That, plus the travel involved, eventually ended in the three Lafayette schools out. If that same thinking holds true today, the HCC, if it goes back to 10 schools, would have to either go back to playing no non conference games, or perhaps forming two divisions, five teams each, playing the other four division teams plus a couple from the other division, with the two division winners playing in week 9. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. 

This is how the 10-team Hoosier Conference works.  Two 5-team divisions.  You play four games against the others in your division, two against teams from the other division in a rotating fashion over the seasons, and then a crossover game in Week 9 ... 1st East vs. 1st West, 2nd East vs. 2nd West, etc.  Two games left over to schedule at will against traditional rivals or anyone else.

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