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MIC & HCC realignment


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22 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

682? There are 407 IHSAA members and that includes nearly every public high school in the state. While there are a few private schools who are not a member of the IHSAA (yes, LaLumiere, but they're mostly small Christian schools), that number is somewhere around 40-50, not 275. 

Not sure if there are any schools that do sports, but not IHSAA sports that would also not fall under their control.  For example, hockey isn't under IHSAA control/guidance. 

More likely than not is the source of that information which is high-schools.com (https://high-schools.com/directory/in/).   Take a look further at the site and you'll notice that the top five private schools in Indiana, based on their site and counting of schools, include schools that have student-teacher ratios from 3 down to the best which is 1.  Those aren't, even for private schools, realistic as schools that COULD BE under the IHSAA governance.  I mean, even in homeschooling, the ratio in our house is, right now, 3-to-1.  Those top-five schools listed just under that category are unlikely to ever be in a position to do much with IHSAA other than maybe tennis ... and even then, I'm not sure if they would qualify under the membership requirements.        

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10 minutes ago, HHF said:

I think I touched a nerve.  

Please.  Like others here, I'm calling you out on your lack of reality/understanding in your posts and pointing out the flaws or lacking.

Would be nice to see your response to my statements and answering the two examples that I provided as opposed to child's play.  By the way, I also noticed that you didn't respond any to the post about districts when you found out that your assumptions about districts was wrong.  Districts don't make the game not worth playing and doesn't exclude rivalries or prevent them from continuing.  I can tell you that as a student of a district state as well as a follower of teams in a district state.  Now, in the case of a closed conference, yes, that certainly ends rivalries or long-standing games from being played.  As an example, and using the "nomadic" Raiders, Harrison has played Westfield every season for the last 20 years as a member of two different conferences.  If the HCC goes to a 10-team closed conference, that two-decade matchup will go by the wayside.

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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

 

Districts is the Texas model ... among others.  With that said, the reason that Texas has qualifications is not because it has a district model, but because it currently takes until this weekend that Texas will hold its state finals ... and that's WITH only taking the top four teams out of each district.  Some of the Texas districts have 10 teams in them. 

Their post season, after a 10-week season, started November 11.  Could you imagine if they played an all-in tourney?  That would take them in to next year.

Yes and for Texas that makes sense. I still don't see why it couldn't work here. I think there'd still be a fair amount of teams that would play that would have played in conference anyway and if you had a rivalry from a conference, you could keep it if they weren't in your district. 

Indiana could still do districts and not do all in. 

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16 minutes ago, JeffO2 said:

It would be nice to see 6A sectionals made up of teams that didn't play each other during the regular season. 

I’m trying to figure out if this is a serious statement. There’s only 32 teams, so show me a sample schedule that doesn’t involve more than 100 miles of travel.

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5 hours ago, HHF said:

Conference championships are the ceiling for the vast majority of schools in the state.  A small number of schools, both pp and public, dominate the post season year after year.  

Without a conference title to pursue, or without conferences to hold schools together athletically, we lose rivalries and lids lose something to play for.  

You can still win a district championship. It's essentially the same thing without the history of the conference behind it. 

1 minute ago, Staxawax said:

I’m trying to figure out if this is a serious statement. There’s only 32 teams, so show me a sample schedule that doesn’t involve more than 100 miles of travel.

This is a regular thing in other states. I'm not saying it's right or good, but it is typical. 5A/6A squads in western Kentucky have to travel 2+ hours for district games or playoff games. It happens a handful of times a year. 

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3 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Please.  Like others here, I'm calling you out on your lack of reality/understanding in your posts and pointing out the flaws or lacking.

Would be nice to see your response to my statements and answering the two examples that I provided as opposed to child's play.  By the way, I also noticed that you didn't respond any to the post about districts when you found out that your assumptions about districts was wrong.  Districts don't make the game not worth playing and doesn't exclude rivalries or prevent them from continuing.  I can tell you that as a student of a district state as well as a follower of teams in a district state.  Now, in the case of a closed conference, yes, that certainly ends rivalries or long-standing games from being played.  As an example, and using the "nomadic" Raiders, Harrison has played Westfield every season for the last 20 years as a member of two different conferences.  If the HCC goes to a 10-team closed conference, that two-decade matchup will go by the wayside.

I avoided the district explanation for two reasons :

1. Indiana will never go there, so its not applicable.  I prefer to spend my time reading about issues that actually apply to football in this state.

2. I saw how districts screwed things up in Illinois, and how coaches , fans and even media bemoaned the loss of conferences.  Things were never stable, changing from year to year.  No district title will replace a conference championship banner hanging in an Indiana high school gym.  

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21 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Not sure if there are any schools that do sports, but not IHSAA sports that would also not fall under their control.  For example, hockey isn't under IHSAA control/guidance. 

More likely than not is the source of that information which is high-schools.com (https://high-schools.com/directory/in/).   Take a look further at the site and you'll notice that the top five private schools in Indiana, based on their site and counting of schools, include schools that have student-teacher ratios from 3 down to the best which is 1.  Those aren't, even for private schools, realistic as schools that COULD BE under the IHSAA governance.  I mean, even in homeschooling, the ratio in our house is, right now, 3-to-1.  Those top-five schools listed just under that category are unlikely to ever be in a position to do much with IHSAA other than maybe tennis ... and even then, I'm not sure if they would qualify under the membership requirements.        

The point is, Texas ratio of high schools to Indiana is about 5 or 6 to 1

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21 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

I’m trying to figure out if this is a serious statement. There’s only 32 teams, so show me a sample schedule that doesn’t involve more than 100 miles of travel.

There were 2 sectionals where all the teams were from the same conference and they're all from around Indy. They could have been split up. I'm not saying there has to be zero repeat games, but it can be reduced.  Lafayette Jeff as in the same sectional as Merrillville. It's doable.

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1 minute ago, HHF said:

The point is, Texas ratio of high schools to Indiana is about 5 or 6 to 1

Again, not sure how this is applicable to my post in response to @crimsonace1.  He was trying to figure out where the extra schools came from in your post.  I pointed out to him that the problem is likely in the source that you used.  The fact that the source was showing schools in Indiana with a 1:1 ration for students means that the 6xx number that they stated doesn't really indicate schools in the mix for IHSAA consideration at any time.  

Incidentally, Texas vs. Indiana football is slightly less than 4-to-1 team ratio with football including P/P.

 

47 minutes ago, JeffO2 said:

There were 2 sectionals where all the teams were from the same conference and they're all from around Indy. They could have been split up. I'm not saying there has to be zero repeat games, but it can be reduced.  Lafayette Jeff as in the same sectional as Merrillville. It's doable.

Harrison's going to be coming into 6A most likely as it just surpassed Jeff in size, so they have to take that into account in splitting up Jeff and Harrison.

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8 hours ago, boilerfan87 said:

I say this is another great opportunity to abolish conferences and go with districts based on enrollment. That setup can be half of your schedule and then the rest can be scheduled to fit your program. 

Conferences are a confederation of schools. The IHSAA has no role in the creation of or regulation of conferences. Plus, almost every school in the HCC or the MIC is in either one of the two largest football classes and the largest class in other classed sports. Why use what's happening between these two leagues as an excuse to breakdown the rest of the state's conferences? You think a team of mostly Class A schools cares about the MIC or HCC?

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1 minute ago, BDGiant93 said:

LOL. Ben Davis is about to have more pros in the league than it's ever had before at the same time, dude. Gosh, you really should pay attention.

How do you account for that awful record this year?

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13 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

LOL. Ben Davis is about to have more pros in the league than it's ever had before at the same time, dude. Gosh, you really should pay attention.

He’s speaking currently.  Pros in the league in 2021 is reflective of the “talent” from the Allen/Kirschner years.

Hell, even the 2017 Mr. Football winner hit the transfer portal today because he is struggling to see the field/stay healthy at a 2 win Big Ten team.

IU wasted no time on this one:

https://iuhoosiers.com/404-1.aspx?url=%2froster.aspx%3frp_id%3d16301%26

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1 hour ago, BDGiant93 said:

Conferences are a confederation of schools. The IHSAA has no role in the creation of or regulation of conferences. Plus, almost every school in the HCC or the MIC is in either one of the two largest football classes and the largest class in other classed sports. Why use what's happening between these two leagues as an excuse to breakdown the rest of the state's conferences? You think a team of mostly Class A schools cares about the MIC or HCC?

I say it for 3 reasons. 

1 - The potential ripple effect this could have. It could lead to a scramble of conference moves and changes from the 4a-6a level. That would impact nearly half the schools in the state as is. I'm not saying it will happen to that extent, but it is likely to effect more than just the MIC and the HCC. 

2 - Conferences have been altered around the state over the last several years with schools moving in and out of conferences in order to be more competitive (from 1A-6A). Schools could stop seeking so many different moves if the state made a move to districts. It would level the playing field to a certain extent. You would only be required to the play the schools in your district that would have a similar enrollment. Then you could schedule games out of district that fit the competitive status of your school. You could redraw districts every 2-3 years and that would take into account changes in enrollment. 

3 - It would give an objective measure to seed the playoffs. How'd you finish in your district? That determines your seed in the playoffs. I am not saying a qualifying playoff, you could still do all-in with this. 

My disclaimer as always - I don't actually think it would happen. It's too much change. But I do think it makes a lot of sense. 

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

He’s speaking currently.  Pros in the league in 2021 is reflective of the “talent” from the Allen/Kirschner years.

Hell, even the 2017 Mr. Football winner hit the transfer portal today because he is struggling to see the field/stay healthy at a 2 win Big Ten team.

IU wasted no time on this one:

https://iuhoosiers.com/404-1.aspx?url=%2froster.aspx%3frp_id%3d16301%26

He's consistently bashing Warren Central and Ben Davis...like always.

Fact is Ben Davis has had Corey Harris, Morten Andersen, Tandon Doss, Asmar Bilal, MarQuies Gray and Chris Evans and that's it in the NFL. The Giants are soon to have a certain Ohio State tackle joining Evans in the league. BD has Aaron Henry in the NBA pipeline with Philadelphia. There are several D-1 players at major conference schools as well as others who aren't. Dillon Moore just signed with Western Michigan. More commits to come too.

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’ve got 4…North Central, bye, Southport, Tech.

You're leaving one out. Right after Tech. I know, it doesn't fit your narrative though.

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5 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

He's consistently bashing Warren Central and Ben Davis...like always.

Fact is Ben Davis has had Corey Harris, Morten Andersen, Tandon Doss, Asmar Bilal, MarQuies Gray and Chris Evans and that's it in the NFL. The Giants are soon to have a certain Ohio State tackle joining Evans in the league. BD has Aaron Henry in the NBA pipeline with Philadelphia. There are several D-1 players at major conference schools as well as others who aren't. Dillon Moore just signed with Western Michigan. More commits to come too.

You're leaving one out. Right after Tech. I know, it doesn't fit your narrative though.

A month to prepare…congrats.

What in the hell does Aaron Henry have to do with BD football?

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1 minute ago, temptation said:

A month to prepare…congrats.

What in the hell does Aaron Henry have to do with BD football?

I threw him in for good measure. We've had a pretty good run of athletes on the Westside. This idea that the Westside or the Eastside haven't produced athletes is poppycock.

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1 minute ago, BDGiant93 said:

I threw him in for good measure. We've had a pretty good run of athletes on the Westside. This idea that the Westside or the Eastside haven't produced athletes is poppycock.

Not what he said.

You gonna toss in the girls basketball players next?

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

The recruiting rankings don’t lie.  He’s right.

Yet Brownsburg had a few more players in those rankings and still lost, albeit with a "month to prep". WC has a monster freshman class coming in and they'll be top dogs soon enough in the new MIC. 

WC, BD, LC (Mickens, plus others), and LN(just sent three to FBS programs), will be just fine. Even Pike and NC are sending players to higher levels in the '23 class. 

Can we stop with the "MIC is dead" narrative. They'll still be high caliber players and programs in the conference and they'll battle with the same programs they've battled with the past 25 years.

We have no idea what the next 20 years will look like, the projections and guesses crack me up. 

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22 minutes ago, MICFan34 said:

Yet Brownsburg had a few more players in those rankings and still lost, albeit with a "month to prep". WC has a monster freshman class coming in and they'll be top dogs soon enough in the new MIC. 

WC, BD, LC (Mickens, plus others), and LN(just sent three to FBS programs), will be just fine. Even Pike and NC are sending players to higher levels in the '23 class. 

Can we stop with the "MIC is dead" narrative. They'll still be high caliber players and programs in the conference and they'll battle with the same programs they've battled with the past 25 years.

We have no idea what the next 20 years will look like, the projections and guesses crack me up. 

We are taking about BEN DAVIS and WARREN CENTRAL.  Two schools near/above 4000 students who eat, sleep, and breathe football and have for 4 decades often at the expense of other sports and programs.

Center Grove and Carmel are sending double figure kids to the next level annually while BD/Warren are sending a handful combined.  
 

Save the “monster freshman class” nonsense for a couple of years.  So many variables to consider before taking that comment seriously.

Its not hard to see where things are trending and save me the “it’s cyclical” argument.  BD and Warren will continue to compete and dominate “the new MIC” solely based on enrollment advantages. 
 

As recently as 20-25 years ago, IPS schools were competitive in multiple sports on a state wide level and now they are an afterthought.  Marion County schools have now taken on that moniker in most sports due to simple socioeconomic shifts and urban sprawl.

Money talks and the suburbs have it.  I walk the front lines daily and can tell you that by the time many kids at most Marion County schools reach the practice field at 3pm, they have already fought multiple battles that most suburban kids don’t have to.  It’s a much steeper climb.

Why don’t schools like Warren and BD compete for state titles in sports like golf, tennis and swimming?  Shouldn’t they be able to?  They have 4000 kids!  Are their coaches not trying hard enough?

I encourage anyone to job shadow me and see the trauma that many kids in the city experience on a daily basis.  It’d blow your mind and you have to see it to believe it.

Do some quick research on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.  It’ll do you some good.

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