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MIC & HCC realignment


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3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I don't know about no credibility, but yes, lost a ton of credibility. And yes it's total BS to claim that the MIC isn't athletically motivated. It's an athletic conference for crying out loud, it's why it exists. 

The MIC didn't want to get caught with their pants at their ankles when Carmel and CG inevitably bolted, so they acted and dressed up a bunch of BS to dance around the fact that Carmel and Center Grove were no longer being challenged athletically in their current conference. I don't want to hear this was an academic move either because Carmel and Center Grove (along with North Central) are by far and away the best academic schools in the MIC. 

Unfortunately, the brutal truth about this entire episode is that it is all about race.  "Cultural alignment" is nothing more than a veiled reference to racial differences that have developed between the 2 outbound schools and the 6 carryovers.  The shooting incident at Ben Davis and the Blackface debacle at Center Grove are not merely just coincidental with this seismic move by The MIC.  The two camps have grown apart and a separation was inevitable.  It is what it is.  

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1 minute ago, HHF said:

Unfortunately, the brutal truth about this entire episode is that it is all about race.  "Cultural alignment" is nothing more than a veiled reference to racial differences that have developed between the 2 outbound schools and the 6 carryovers.  The shooting incident at Ben Davis and the Blackface debacle at Center Grove are not merely just coincidental with this seismic move by The MIC.  The two camps have grown apart and a separation was inevitable.  It is what it is.  

But you’ve been saying for over a year it’s about revenue.

Pick a plot line and stick with it dude.

Edited by temptation
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3 minutes ago, temptation said:

But you’ve been saying for over a year it’s about revenue.

Pick a plot line and stick with it dude.

Why cant it be about race, revenue and competition?

All 3 are at play here.  You are not so myopic to believe that this is a single issue decision , I certainly hope.

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22 minutes ago, HHF said:

Unfortunately, the brutal truth about this entire episode is that it is all about race.  "Cultural alignment" is nothing more than a veiled reference to racial differences that have developed between the 2 outbound schools and the 6 carryovers.  The shooting incident at Ben Davis and the Blackface debacle at Center Grove are not merely just coincidental with this seismic move by The MIC.  The two camps have grown apart and a separation was inevitable.  It is what it is.  

Yet you've been shouting from the rooftops for years about this move well before either of these isolated incidents occurred. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the fact that the MIC doesn't pull their weight in regards to offering a competitive product to challenge CG or Carmel.

Nothing more, nothing less.

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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Yet you've been shouting from the rooftops for years about this move well before either of these isolated incidents occurred. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the fact that the MIC doesn't pull their weight in regards to offering a competitive product to challenge CG or Carmel.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Even though the MIC statement clearly alluded to "cultural alignment" issues, you still deny any connection to anything other than competitiveness as the reasons for the moves that have been made?

Thats just flat out tunnel vision.  Im sorry

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10 minutes ago, HHF said:

Unfortunately, the brutal truth about this entire episode is that it is all about race.  "Cultural alignment" is nothing more than a veiled reference to racial differences that have developed between the 2 outbound schools and the 6 carryovers.  The shooting incident at Ben Davis and the Blackface debacle at Center Grove are not merely just coincidental with this seismic move by The MIC.  The two camps have grown apart and a separation was inevitable.  It is what it is.  

More lies. You are trying desperately to stir the pot but you have no credibility so it isn’t working. 

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6 minutes ago, HHF said:

Why cant it be about race, revenue and competition?

All 3 are at play here.  You are not so myopic to believe that this is a single issue decision , I certainly hope.

“Unfortunately, the brutal truth about this entire episode is that it is all about race.”

Umm…

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2 minutes ago, HHF said:

Even though the MIC statement clearly alluded to "cultural alignment" issues, you still deny any connection to anything other than competitiveness as the reasons for the moves that have been made?

Thats just flat out tunnel vision.  Im sorry

The cultural alignment comment was added to get simple minded folks to take their side. 

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5 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Nevertheless, despite living an hour and a half away from MIC territory, I still find this whole situation intriguing. I have no dog in the fight but, as I mentioned in the Hoosier Hills Conference thread, my gut is telling me there’s a chance ripple effects could find their way down to my part of the state. I’m interested to see how the dominos fall.

I agree about the ripple effect.....I think that effect will be much bigger if Carmel ends up being independent. It may motivate other schools to do the same. It may be more work in the short term for AD's, but could pay off in many ways down the road. 

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4 hours ago, Grover said:

The cultural alignment comment was added to get simple minded folks to take their side. 

Great that you have such incredible insight into what they were thinking when they wrote the release.  I'm impressed.

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19 hours ago, HHF said:

My sense here is that any sympathetic public opinion regarding this situation will fall on the the side of The MIC.  

There will be some (mostly people with vested interest in the remaining 6 MIC schools). Far more others will see beyond the BS like "academics vs athletics" when it concerns Center Grove and Carmel. I would bet that IDOE would agree that Center Grove along with Carmel were tops in the MIC in academics along with North Central. Which is why many will see right through the nifty PR public statement.

15 hours ago, HHF said:

This is all about semantics.  We just disagree on how this is being perceived by people on the outside.  Thats Ok and frankly very healthy.  

So you are saying the folks behind the MIC public statement have no credibility and are full of BS? 

You don't speak for people on the outside, only for yourself. Not all people on the outside view it the same as you do "Throw darts at the wall and see if it sticks, 90% of the time the dart doesn't even hit the target".

Great Darts gifs on PandaGif | Best Darts gifs

The "folks" behind the MIC public statement used what they could PR department to save face and try to make themselves look good. There are likely several that see right through the BS PR statement. You're not one of them (talk about myopic).

15 hours ago, HHF said:

Why cant it be about race, revenue and competition?

All 3 are at play here.  You are not so myopic to believe that this is a single issue decision , I certainly hope.

Race was an easy PR move to save face with recent events. It is obvious this was a possible move by Center Grove and Carmel Looooong before the shooting and the blackface. Heck even you have been bringing up gate revenue dating back several years.

Edited by FastpacedO
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16 hours ago, HHF said:

Unfortunately, the brutal truth about this entire episode is that it is all about race.  "Cultural alignment" is nothing more than a veiled reference to racial differences that have developed between the 2 outbound schools and the 6 carryovers.  The shooting incident at Ben Davis and the Blackface debacle at Center Grove are not merely just coincidental with this seismic move by The MIC.  The two camps have grown apart and a separation was inevitable.  It is what it is.  

I disagree completely 

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Again, from some inside sources that are very credible, CG and Carmel originally reached out to the MIC schools in hopes to combine with the HCC. This would have made a mega conference. MIC did not want that. So to me, the BS about the academics and everything else was just something for them to fall back on.

However, I have also heard that a decent amount of the HCC schools want NO part in allowing CG and Carmel in.

It will definitely be interesting how this all shakes out in a couple of weeks.

Cg and Carmel may have to start persuading teams into creating a new conference... 

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17 hours ago, HHF said:

Unfortunately, the brutal truth about this entire episode is that it is all about race.  "Cultural alignment" is nothing more than a veiled reference to racial differences that have developed between the 2 outbound schools and the 6 carryovers.  The shooting incident at Ben Davis and the Blackface debacle at Center Grove are not merely just coincidental with this seismic move by The MIC.  The two camps have grown apart and a separation was inevitable.  It is what it is.  

Disagree completely... Had zero to do with Race...  it had everything to do with competition and $.  

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I hear people keep saying it isn't about "demographics" do Carmel or Center Grove make fans pass through metal detectors before games? How can this seriously not be a factor? Do any of the HCC schools require fans to pass through metal detectors?

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1 hour ago, Indiana Fan said:

However, I have also heard that a decent amount of the HCC schools want NO part in allowing CG and Carmel in.

I can verify first hand that this number is higher than many people outside would expect. For a wide variety of reasons (from competitive balance to travel time, and others).  And in a wide variety of sports.  I have no crystal ball that I can look into and predict what would happen, but anyone that thinks this is a "for sure" deal is mistaken.  My personal feelings are that I WANT CG and C to play HCC teams in regular season play....it would be great football.  Whether that is in a conference structure or not is for others to decide.

My only prediction would be that any of the following are real possibilities:

  1. HCC adds C & CG and goes to a closed 10 team conference
  2. HCC adds C & CG and goes to a 2 division schedule that would allow for non-conference games and some cross over play
  3. HCC adds one of the above and not the other.
  4. HCC declines both and a "new conference" is formed with C, CG, and one or some HCC members that break off.

The last one is the real monkey wrench that would cause a lot of dominoes to fall.  My gut tells me this is the least likely, but I really don't know.

Of course if we are still in the "Trust Tree", I would admit that it could be something else too....something really cool....that I don't even know about 🤪

Edited by US31
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8 minutes ago, US31 said:

I can verify first hand that this number is higher than many people outside would expect. For a wide variety of reasons (from competitive balance to travel time, and others).  And in a wide variety of sports.  I have no crystal ball that I can look into and predict what would happen, but anyone that thinks this is a "for sure" deal is mistaken.  My personal feelings are that I WANT CG and C to play HCC teams in regular season play....it would be great football.  Whether that is in a conference structure or not is for others to decide.

My only prediction would be that any of the following are real possibilities:

  1. HCC adds C & CG and goes to a closed 10 team conference
  2. HCC adds C & CG and goes to a 2 division schedule that would allow for non-conference games and some cross over play
  3. HCC adds one of the above and not the other.
  4. HCC declines both and a "new conference" is formed with C, CG, and one or some HCC members that break off.

The last one is the real monkey wrench that would cause a lot of dominoes to fall.  My gut tells me this is the least likely, but I really don't know.

Of course if we are still in the "Trust Tree", I would admit that it could be something else too....something really cool....that I don't even know about 🤪

I am with ya on this. I do not see a reason why HCC would not add them. In football, I think the best would be a 7 game conference schedule that rotates every year. I do not see them adding just 1 of the 2. I believe it is all or none.

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6 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

I am with ya on this. I do not see a reason why HCC would not add them. In football, I think the best would be a 7 game conference schedule that rotates every year. I do not see them adding just 1 of the 2. I believe it is all or none.

It’s already a grind in the HCC in nearly every sport (even more so than the MIC).

In a few of the country club sports ALL EIGHT HCC schools are ranked in the top 25 in the state…and that’s WITHOUT Carmel or CG.

I have a theory that coaches at places like HSE/Fishers sometimes get shorter leashes because of a lack of postseason success…due in large part to having to go through Carmel in every thing.

Now you are gonna throw the Hounds in their conference too?  That’d be a tough sell for me.

In most circles, regardless of geography, it’s “Carmel vs the World.”  We could see that play out here now that the leverage is on the other side.

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7 minutes ago, temptation said:

It’s already a grind in the HCC in nearly every sport (even more so than the MIC).

In a few of the country club sports ALL EIGHT HCC schools are ranked in the top 25 in the state…and that’s WITHOUT Carmel or CG.

I have a theory that coaches at places like HSE/Fishers sometimes get shorter leashes because of a lack of postseason success…due in large part to having to go through Carmel in every thing.

Now you are gonna throw the Hounds in their conference too?  That’d be a tough sell for me.

In most circles, regardless of geography, it’s “Carmel vs the World.”  We could see that play out here now that the leverage is on the other side.

Adding just CG puts the HCC at 9 members.  A conference opener in week 1 with a non con in week 2 and then 7 weeks of conf play is a very workable schedule.  

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7 minutes ago, HHF said:

Adding just CG puts the HCC at 9 members.  A conference opener in week 1 with a non con in week 2 and then 7 weeks of conf play is a very workable schedule.  

All depends if Carmel/CG are a package deal.  I don't think they are but those I have spoken to seem to be of the mindset its both or neither.

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4 minutes ago, boilerfan87 said:

I say this is another great opportunity to abolish conferences and go with districts based on enrollment. That setup can be half of your schedule and then the rest can be scheduled to fit your program. 

Thats for states that have qualification based playoffs.  Thats not the Indiana model

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