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MIC & HCC realignment


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37 minutes ago, temptation said:

All depends if Carmel/CG are a package deal.  I don't think they are but those I have spoken to seem to be of the mindset its both or neither.

Any idea on schools that are most resistant to adding Carmel/Center Grove? Purely from a fan standpoint I'd love to see a conference shake up between the HCC and MIC establishing new members as such:

New HCC

Carmel

Center Grove

Westfield

Zionsville

Fishers 

HSE

Noblesville

New MIC

Warren

Ben Davis

Brownsburg

Avon

Franklin Central

Pike

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

 

HCC could leave a spot open to potentially add an 8th member in Mt Vernon assuming they continue their rapid growth. 

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2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Any idea on schools that are most resistant to adding Carmel/Center Grove? Purely from a fan standpoint I'd love to see a conference shake up between the HCC and MIC establishing new members as such:

New HCC

Carmel

Center Grove

Westfield

Zionsville

Fishers 

HSE

Noblesville

New MIC

Warren

Ben Davis

Brownsburg

Avon

Franklin Central

Pike

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

 

HCC could leave a spot open to potentially add an 8th member in Mt Vernon assuming they continue their rapid growth. 

PM me.

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18 minutes ago, HHF said:

Thats for states that have qualification based playoffs.  Thats not the Indiana model

But why does it have to be? A district set up gives teams a much more flexible scheduling model. If everyone makes the playoffs, why does it matter how your regular season is configured? But if we do move to a "top 2 are seeded" type of look that has been proposed, such a setup would lend itself to an easier way to do that. 

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5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Any idea on schools that are most resistant to adding Carmel/Center Grove? Purely from a fan standpoint I'd love to see a conference shake up between the HCC and MIC establishing new members as such:

New HCC

Carmel

Center Grove

Westfield

Zionsville

Fishers 

HSE

Noblesville

New MIC

Warren

Ben Davis

Brownsburg

Avon

Franklin Central

Pike

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

 

HCC could leave a spot open to potentially add an 8th member in Mt Vernon assuming they continue their rapid growth. 

To heck with North Central?🤣

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2 minutes ago, boilerfan87 said:

But why does it have to be? A district set up gives teams a much more flexible scheduling model. If everyone makes the playoffs, why does it matter how your regular season is configured? But if we do move to a "top 2 are seeded" type of look that has been proposed, such a setup would lend itself to an easier way to do that. 

Conference championships are the ceiling for the vast majority of schools in the state.  A small number of schools, both pp and public, dominate the post season year after year.  

Without a conference title to pursue, or without conferences to hold schools together athletically, we lose rivalries and lids lose something to play for.  

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1 hour ago, US31 said:

For a wide variety of reasons (from competitive balance to travel time, and others).  And in a wide variety of sports.  I have no crystal ball that I can look into and pr

I don't disagree with anything you have stated. However I don't get the travel time.  How would any HCC teams have more travel time to Carmel than any of their other members? Carmel is right there with several members (Westfield, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville). Why would travel with Center Grove be an issue to not accept them yet Franklin Central isn't (for some of the members Center Grove would be closer than Franklin Central). To me Travel Time would be a scape goat excuse (don't get me wrong not throwing that on you just something that baffles me).

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9 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I don't disagree with anything you have stated. However I don't get the travel time.  How would any HCC teams have more travel time to Carmel than any of their other members? Carmel is right there with several members (Westfield, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville). Why would travel with Center Grove be an issue to not accept them yet Franklin Central isn't (for some of the members Center Grove would be closer than Franklin Central). To me Travel Time would be a scape goat excuse (don't get me wrong not throwing that on you just something that baffles me).

Obviously its not Carmel they are talking about....and to be clear, I'm just relaying what I'm hearing from other coaches (and not a few parents).  One of them is that travel time to CG is not what north side schools are looking forward to.

Football isn't the issue (IMO)...since HCC football is a Friday night and Saturday deal.  But week night events in other sports are were it grinds some people.

A lot of HCC schools complained about the Lafayette schools back in the day.  Some complain about FC now. 

The common follow up is why are we driving all the way to "School X", when we could be playing/competing against "School Y" that is much closer.

Edited by US31
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6 minutes ago, US31 said:

Obviously its not Carmel they are talking about....and to be clear, I'm just relaying what I'm hearing from other coaches (and not a few parents).  One of them is that travel time to CG is not what north side schools are looking forward to.

Football isn't the issue (IMO)...since HCC football is a Friday night and Saturday deal.  But week night events in other sports are were it grinds some people.

A lot of HCC schools complained about the Lafayette schools back in the day.  Some complain about FC now. 

The common follow up is why are we driving all the way to "School X", when we could be playing/competing against "School Y" that is much closer.

Yeah I didn't want to so call kill the messenger. I just wanted to point out the not much difference with CG and FC and Carmel is pretty much in their backyard. That is why I definitely stated I didn"t want it directed towards you just general questions

 

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1 hour ago, US31 said:

Obviously its not Carmel they are talking about....and to be clear, I'm just relaying what I'm hearing from other coaches (and not a few parents).  One of them is that travel time to CG is not what north side schools are looking forward to.

Football isn't the issue (IMO)...since HCC football is a Friday night and Saturday deal.  But week night events in other sports are were it grinds some people.

A lot of HCC schools complained about the Lafayette schools back in the day.  Some complain about FC now. 

The common follow up is why are we driving all the way to "School X", when we could be playing/competing against "School Y" that is much closer.

Meh these HCC schools are whiners.  Just try that Logansport to Richmond drive in the NCC for example.  It's brutal.

 

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2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Any idea on schools that are most resistant to adding Carmel/Center Grove? Purely from a fan standpoint I'd love to see a conference shake up between the HCC and MIC establishing new members as such:

New HCC

Carmel

Center Grove

Westfield

Zionsville

Fishers 

HSE

Noblesville

New MIC

Warren

Ben Davis

Brownsburg

Avon

Franklin Central

Pike

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

 

HCC could leave a spot open to potentially add an 8th member in Mt Vernon assuming they continue their rapid growth. 

Now adding Brownsburg to the mix....this is getting ridiculous lol...

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3 hours ago, HHF said:

Thats for states that have qualification based playoffs.  Thats not the Indiana model

 

3 hours ago, boilerfan87 said:

I say this is another great opportunity to abolish conferences and go with districts based on enrollment. That setup can be half of your schedule and then the rest can be scheduled to fit your program. 

Districts is the Texas model ... among others.  With that said, the reason that Texas has qualifications is not because it has a district model, but because it currently takes until this weekend that Texas will hold its state finals ... and that's WITH only taking the top four teams out of each district.  Some of the Texas districts have 10 teams in them. 

Their post season, after a 10-week season, started November 11.  Could you imagine if they played an all-in tourney?  That would take them in to next year.

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1 hour ago, FridayNightLights said:

Now adding Brownsburg to the mix....this is getting ridiculous lol...

Purely from a fan perspective.

Brownsburg likely falls a tier or two in the HCC hierarchy if Center Grove and Carmel join ship. Brownsburg moving to the MIC would give them an opportunity to finally become king of the hill in a conference and form geographical rivals with Pike and Ben Davis along with current rival Avon.

I'm guessing Brownsburg is perfectly content in the HCC and will remain that way with whatever happens going forward.

But a new alignment that adds Avon/Brownsburg/Franklin Central would be the best possible outcome for the MIC.

 

Edited by Footballking16
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26 minutes ago, foxbat said:

 

Districts is the Texas model ... among others.  With that said, the reason that Texas has qualifications is not because it has a district model, but because it currently takes until this weekend that Texas will hold its state finals ... and that's WITH only taking the top four teams out of each district.  Some of the Texas districts have 10 teams in them. 

Their post season, after a 10-week season, started November 11.  Could you imagine if they played an all-in tourney?  That would take them in to next year.

There are 3,240 high schools in Texas, made up of 2,813 public schools and 427 private schools. Texas ranks as the 2nd state in terms of student enrollment and 2nd in terms of total number of schools.

There are 682 high schools in Indiana, made up of 555 public schools and 127 private schools. Indiana ranks as the 16th state in terms of student enrollment and 16th in terms of total number of schools.

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3 hours ago, HHF said:

Conference championships are the ceiling for the vast majority of schools in the state.  A small number of schools, both pp and public, dominate the post season year after year.  

Without a conference title to pursue, or without conferences to hold schools together athletically, we lose rivalries and lids lose something to play for.  

Speaking as someone who came from a district environment in Texas, we fought for district titles and placement in the post-season.  And as for rivalries, depending on your district, you had opportunities to schedule at least one outside of your district and up to five teams.  Up to the last district alignments, the district that my team played in had all of the members in its districts from the same ISD ... currently there are 12 schools in that ISD and all six are 6A schools.  Prior to the last classification, we were in a district with nine other sister-schools.  This go-round they actually split those 12 schools between two districts ... one district is a district of eight teams, with all eight from the same ISD and then the other four are in a district together.  This go-round, my alma mater played seven district games and three non-district, with three of their district games being against sister schools from the same ISD.  Given that my alma mater was the third school in that mega-conglomerate ISD, there are definitely rivalries that exist.

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4 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Speaking as someone who came from a district environment in Texas, we fought for district titles and placement in the post-season.  And as for rivalries, depending on your district, you had opportunities to schedule at least one outside of your district and up to five teams.  Up to the last district alignments, the district that my team played in had all of the members in its districts from the same ISD ... currently there are 12 schools in that ISD and all six are 6A schools.  Prior to the last classification, we were in a district with nine other sister-schools.  This go-round they actually split those 12 schools between two districts ... one district is a district of eight teams, with all eight from the same ISD and then the other four are in a district together.  This go-round, my alma mater played seven district games and three non-district, with three of their district games being against sister schools from the same ISD.  Given that my alma mater was the third school in that mega-conglomerate ISD, there are definitely rivalries that exist.

Harrison and Jeff are nomads, which is why you feel no need for a conference connection.  Its understandable.

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11 minutes ago, HHF said:

There are 3,240 high schools in Texas, made up of 2,813 public schools and 427 private schools. Texas ranks as the 2nd state in terms of student enrollment and 2nd in terms of total number of schools.

There are 682 high schools in Indiana, made up of 555 public schools and 127 private schools. Indiana ranks as the 16th state in terms of student enrollment and 16th in terms of total number of schools.

682? There are 407 IHSAA members and that includes nearly every public high school in the state. While there are a few private schools who are not a member of the IHSAA (yes, LaLumiere, but they're mostly small Christian schools), that number is somewhere around 40-50, not 275. 

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4 minutes ago, HHF said:

There are 3,240 high schools in Texas, made up of 2,813 public schools and 427 private schools. Texas ranks as the 2nd state in terms of student enrollment and 2nd in terms of total number of schools.

There are 682 high schools in Indiana, made up of 555 public schools and 127 private schools. Indiana ranks as the 16th state in terms of student enrollment and 16th in terms of total number of schools.

Not sure of you point.  Everyone knows that Texas is bigger and THAT is the reason that Texas has a qualifier system; not because it has districts.

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2 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

682? There are 407 IHSAA members and that includes nearly every public high school in the state. While there are a few private schools who are not a member of the IHSAA (yes, LaLumiere, but they're mostly small Christian schools), that number is somewhere around 40-50, not 275. 

That did seem quite high to me as well

2 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Not sure of you point.  Everyone knows that Texas is bigger and THAT is the reason that Texas has a qualifier system; not because it has districts.

This was in reference to the playoffs taking 4 months to complete if they had an all in model

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4 minutes ago, HHF said:

Harrison and Jeff are nomads, which is why you feel no need for a conference connection.  Its understandable.

Yeah, that's it.  See my subsequent post about coming from a district-based football system.  I also have an LCC affiliation too and, if you follow my posts in the HC threads, you'd see that I have a fairly strong conference affiliation for the HC too.  Of course, I also went to college and am affiliated with schools from teh Big 12, Big 10, SEC, and the old SWC as well.  I've spent PLENTY of time in conference affiliations.  What my experiences have told me is that it's more about operation than semantics.  You assume that just because they are called districts that rivalries don't happen and can't be scheduled, but that's not the case in all places with districts ... e.g., Texas.

As for Jeff and Harrison being nomads, there are PLENTY of schools in Indiana who have been members of more than one conference or multiple conferences.  I mean seriously, Sheridan has been part of at least five conferences in their existence.  You're going to tell me that Sheridan fans don't feel a need for a "conference connection" as you call it or are you going to disenfranchise them as well?  Or a school like RCHS which has been in at least three conferences and even independent for a while?

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10 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Yeah, that's it.  See my subsequent post about coming from a district-based football system.  I also have an LCC affiliation too and, if you follow my posts in the HC threads, you'd see that I have a fairly strong conference affiliation for the HC too.  Of course, I also went to college and am affiliated with schools from teh Big 12, Big 10, SEC, and the old SWC as well.  I've spent PLENTY of time in conference affiliations.  What my experiences have told me is that it's more about operation than semantics.  You assume that just because they are called districts that rivalries don't happen and can't be scheduled, but that's not the case in all places with districts ... e.g., Texas.

As for Jeff and Harrison being nomads, there are PLENTY of schools in Indiana who have been members of more than one conference or multiple conferences.  I mean seriously, Sheridan has been part of at least five conferences in their existence.  You're going to tell me that Sheridan fans don't feel a need for a "conference connection" as you call it or are you going to disenfranchise them as well?  Or a school like RCHS which has been in at least three conferences and even independent for a while?

I think I touched a nerve.  

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