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Declining Numbers Impacting Competitive Balance


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This is not about winning or losing an argument, which is what you are all about on this forum.  Its about bringing attention to a serious issue which should be addressed by coaches, admins, ADs and The IHSAA  Ive shared my "opinions" on the topic and made my point.  Every schol has the free will to pick and choose which sports it wants to participate in.  Scottsburg is a 4A school that dropped football 8 years ago due to non competitive issues.  They are back playing again and rebuilding their program.  It was their choice, which is the way it should be.  My role here is to lobby for what I believe is in the best interests of the game, and as a strong proponent of competitive balance, to lobby for what I feel is in the best interests of the member schools themselves.  

 

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2 minutes ago, HHF said:
5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

About the response I expected from somebody getting ca

 

ught talking out of their ass. 

@HHF, your avatar should be a lightning rod.

Nevertheless, your basic premise is not wrong. Declining participation numbers are altering the competitive landscape. Right here close to home, Munster’s precipitous decline from one of the Region’s consistently good programs to one that can’t field a JV team and a varsity that just celebrated a 3 win season … because that matched their win total for the previous 3 seasons combined. We may be headed for another “new normal.”

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23 minutes ago, HHF said:

This is not about winning or losing an argument, which is what you are all about on this forum.  Its about bringing attention to a serious issue which should be addressed by coaches, admins, ADs and The IHSAA  Ive shared my "opinions" on the topic and made my point.  Every schol has the free will to pick and choose which sports it wants to participate in.  Scottsburg is a 4A school that dropped football 8 years ago due to non competitive issues.  They are back playing again and rebuilding their program.  It was their choice, which is the way it should be.  My role here is to lobby for what I believe is in the best interests of the game, and as a strong proponent of competitive balance, to lobby for what I feel is in the best interests of the member schools themselves.  

 

If you're going to bring a "serious" issue to the table you're going to need a little bit more than anecdotal evidence and hyperbole. Foxbat debunked all of your talking points in a mere 20 minutes after you threw out the name of a team in which you clearly know nothing about.  

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6 minutes ago, Bobref said:

@HHF, your avatar should be a lightning rod.

Nevertheless, your basic premise is not wrong. Declining participation numbers are altering the competitive landscape. Right here close to home, Munster’s precipitous decline from one of the Region’s consistently good programs to one that can’t field a JV team and a varsity that just celebrated a 3 win season … because that matched their win total for the previous 3 seasons combined. We may be headed for another “new normal.”

Who anointed you to determine which premises are right and which are wrong?

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3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

If you're going to bring a "serious" issue to the table you're going to need a little bit more than anecdotal evidence and hyperbole. Foxbat debunked all of your talking points in a mere 20 minutes after you threw out the name of a team in which you clearly know nothing about.  

foxbat doesnt need a hack like you to fight his battles.  I understand where he is coming from.  If you dont think that huge roster imbalances occur in every class on every Friday night, then your just not operating in reality.  

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21 minutes ago, HHF said:

foxbat doesnt need a hack like you to fight his battles.  I understand where he is coming from.  If you dont think that huge roster imbalances occur in every class on every Friday night, then your just not operating in reality.  

You're the one insinuating that huge roster imbalances are leading to "catastrophic injuries". You've yet to provide one example of this actually happening. Asserting that declining numbers are impacting teams performances is one thing, doesn't take a genius to realize that, you figured it out so case in point, but offering nothing to support that roster imbalances are leading to catastrophic injuries to further your never-ending contraction agenda is complete bullshit.

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22 minutes ago, HHF said:

Who anointed you to determine which premises are right and which are wrong?

The same person who apparently anointed you, and everyone else who voices a opinion on here.

In case you didn’t notice, I was agreeing with you.

Edited by Bobref
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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

 Likewise, I threw out a very recent example based on a game that I watched in person where a team with 19 players actually led the eventual state champs, with a roster of nearly 45 players no less, by a point at halftime in a sectional final. 

It doesn't matter if you led the eventual state champs, what matters is defeating them.  And yourself just proved that a team with 19 players could not defeat the eventual state champs with a roster of nearly 45 players.

If you are not first, you are last.  

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8 minutes ago, Bobref said:

The same person who apparently anointed you, and everyone else who voices a opinion on here.

In case you didn’t notice, I was agreeing with you.

I took exception to your phrase, "not wrong."  That's a bit pompous and condescending

16 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

You're the one insinuating that huge roster imbalances are leading to "catastrophic injuries". You've yet to provide one example of this actually happening. Asserting that declining numbers are impacting teams performances is one thing, doesn't take a genius to realize that, you figured it out so case in point, but offering nothing to support that roster imbalances are leading to catastrophic injuries to further your never-ending contraction agenda is complete bullshit.

I gave two examples.  There are likely hundreds that go unreported

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1 minute ago, Muda69 said:

It doesn't matter if you led the eventual state champs, what matters is defeating them.  And yourself just proved that a team with 19 players could not defeat the eventual state champs with a roster of nearly 45 players.

If you are not first, you are last.  

The premise put forth, see below, was that they should not be on the field, not that they could beat a state championship team or even that they could win.  The team with 19 was competitive that year despite the numbers.

If state championship is the moniker for being competitive, then there are probably at least some 250 teams in the state that probably shouldn't ever be on the field.  Luckily, it's not all about getting to LOS or even out of sectionals in some cases to determine the worth of the activity and the effort.

15 hours ago, HHF said:

The IHSAA should mandate MPS (Minimum Participation Standards) by class 

A - 22

AA - 25

AAA - 30

AAAA - 35

AAAAA- - 40

AAAAAA - 45

 

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Just now, foxbat said:

The premise put forth, see below, was that they should not be on the field, not that they could beat a state championship team or even that they could win.  The team with 19 was competitive that year despite the numbers.

If state championship is the moniker for being competitive, then there are probably at least some 250 teams in the state that probably shouldn't ever be on the field.  Luckily, it's not all about getting to LOS or even out of sectionals in some cases to determine the worth of the activity and the effort.

 

I never said a state championship was the moniker, it was you crowing about "eventual state champion" virtually every other sentence.   I would settle for a sectional championship, and again you yourself showed that the team with 19 players couldn't beat the team with 45 players.   

Define "competitive" in the context of the Indiana High School football tournament.

 

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6 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I never said a state championship was the moniker, it was you crowing about "eventual state champion" virtually every other sentence.   I would settle for a sectional championship, and again you yourself showed that the team with 19 players couldn't beat the team with 45 players.   

Define "competitive" in the context of the Indiana High School football tournament.

 

Context matters ...

image.thumb.png.eb607d14185da6541c6ef3d075b2a185.png

As for competitive, I think that's going to be up to each team to determine what is competitive for their goals.  My youngest son's travel baseball team schedules their season with the idea of being competitive being playing at peak and going .500.  For others, I'm sure it's winning every tournament they enter.  And for other's still, it might just be playing in tournaments and not getting 10-run ruled this season.

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

"I've read on GID about injuries regarding Benton Central and Bishop Noll" aren't examples. That's anecdotal. 

What were the injuries? Who were they sustained against? Etc.

Do better. 

Nope  Have nothing to prove to you.  Its all in the archives.  If you are that inquisitive go find it yourself.  

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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Figured as much.

Nothing substantial. Par for the course. 

I thought its been a very substantial conversation.  Go ahead and chalk it up as another win.  You must be 75-0 by this time since we are keeping track.  Youre a legend.  

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18 minutes ago, HHF said:

I thought its been a very substantial conversation.  Go ahead and chalk it up as another win.  You must be 75-0 by this time since we are keeping track.  Youre a legend.  

There's no winning and losing here, just exposing you for the fraud you are.

Anybody driving home a narrative that players on uncompetitive teams are being catastrophically injured in droves would have specific examples. "Go look it up yourself" isn't an example, let alone concrete.

Try harder.

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4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

There's no winning and losing here, just exposing you for the fraud you are.

Anybody driving home a narrative that players on uncompetitive teams are being catastrophically injured in droves would have specific examples. "Go look it up yourself" isn't an example, let alone concrete.

Try harder.

People such as yourself should really be banned from this type of forum.  You bring zero value to any conversation other than a "prove it" mentality that is toxic and negative and destructive.  If anyone was watching the gate here they would have shown you the door a long time ago.  Its too bad that you have become the prime representative of Indianapolis Cathedral High School on this forum.  If you are a good representation of the type of adult that place produces, Id advise anyone to steer clear of the joint.  

 

But I know you are not.  You are a failed outlier.  It happens

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26 minutes ago, HHF said:

People such as yourself should really be banned from this type of forum.  You bring zero value to any conversation other than a "prove it" mentality that is toxic and negative and destructive.  If anyone was watching the gate here they would have shown you the door a long time ago.  Its too bad that you have become the prime representative of Indianapolis Cathedral High School on this forum.  If you are a good representation of the type of adult that place produces, Id advise anyone to steer clear of the joint.  

LAUGH OUT EFFING LOUD

Says the guy pushing for contraction based on unfounded and unsubstantiated claims on a high school message that's designed to grow and promote the game of football.

Take a lap, Walt. See ya with your next screen name. 

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Getting back to the theme of this topic, I think there are a lot of reason numbers are down, but the two that seem the biggest to me are eligibility and just not wanting to play.

In South Bend, basketball is king.  Everyone looks forward to it, good crowds, and good competition.

In football, small crowds, most students are there to socialize not paying attention to the game.

I don't think football will be a thing in South Bend.  Since contraction is not on the board, South Bend will have 4 struggling programs.

 

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