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The Gridiron Digest

Declining Numbers Impacting Competitive Balance


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26 minutes ago, HHF said:

People such as yourself should really be banned from this type of forum.  You bring zero value to any conversation other than a "prove it" mentality that is toxic and negative and destructive.  If anyone was watching the gate here they would have shown you the door a long time ago.  Its too bad that you have become the prime representative of Indianapolis Cathedral High School on this forum.  If you are a good representation of the type of adult that place produces, Id advise anyone to steer clear of the joint.  

 

But I know you are not.  You are a failed outlier.  It happens

If it doesn't happen or isn't seen at Cathedral its not reality.  Every player in the state of Indiana comes from a stable, two-parent household family earning six figures and if they lose to Cathedral, they just need to "get better."  

Also, Cathedral plays teams 2-3 times its size in enrollment and wins state championships, so everybody should be able to do it.

Any suggestion otherwise is a false narrative.

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19 minutes ago, temptation said:

If it doesn't happen or isn't seen at Cathedral its not reality.  Every player in the state of Indiana comes from a stable, two-parent household family earning six figures and if they lose to Cathedral, they just need to "get better."  

Also, Cathedral plays teams 2-3 times its size in enrollment and wins state championships, so everybody should be able to do it.

Any suggestion otherwise is a false narrative.

Still trying to keep your head above water I see. 

Tread harder my friend. 

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2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

You're the one insinuating that huge roster imbalances are leading to "catastrophic injuries". You've yet to provide one example of this actually happening. 

Yeah...kind of like claiming coaches are biased in the selection of the state's Mr. Football award to the Indy metro area, yet failing to provide one example of a unfair selection of the award to a local Indy player over a non-local Indy player......

BTW, you did notice the selection of the Mr. Football Offensive Line was a selection from southern Indiana over an outstanding player from Zionsville correct?  Not sure how in the world the coaches were able pull their biased voting away from the metro area......🤪  #coachescan'tthinkforthemselves

image.png.6d2a4c6b95ddb20761795d07607bad50.png

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21 minutes ago, temptation said:

If it doesn't happen or isn't seen at Cathedral its not reality.  Every player in the state of Indiana comes from a stable, two-parent household family earning six figures and if they lose to Cathedral, they just need to "get better."  

Also, Cathedral plays teams 2-3 times its size in enrollment and wins state championships, so everybody should be able to do it.

Any suggestion otherwise is a false narrative.

Also, what does the high school I attended over 15 years ago have anything to do with the topic at hand or DT's ability to spin and spew numbers and narratives out of his ass to further an agenda he's been on for over a decade? There's reason why he's quit, re-joined, quit, started his own site, rinse repeat for the last 15 years? He knows he's full of it as does everybody else and can't stand and has to take ball and run. 

It gets old. 

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7 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Getting back to the theme of this topic, I think there are a lot of reason numbers are down, but the two that seem the biggest to me are eligibility and just not wanting to play.

In South Bend, basketball is king.  Everyone looks forward to it, good crowds, and good competition.

In football, small crowds, most students are there to socialize not paying attention to the game.

I don't think football will be a thing in South Bend.  Since contraction is not on the board, South Bend will have 4 struggling programs.

 

Eligibility?  Do you mean like students who aren't able to play because of transfer or not making grades?

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19 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Yeah...kind of like claiming coaches are biased in the selection of the state's Mr. Football award to the Indy metro area, yet failing to provide one example of a unfair selection of the award to a local Indy player over a non-local Indy player......

BTW, you did notice the selection of the Mr. Football Offensive Line was a selection from southern Indiana over an outstanding player from Zionsville correct?  Not sure how in the world the coaches were able pull their biased voting away from the metro area......🤪  #coachescan'tthinkforthemselves

image.png.6d2a4c6b95ddb20761795d07607bad50.png

Don't have the time nor energy to explain what an outlier is....again.

If I wanted to talk to a clown, I'd go to the circus.

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10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Don't have the time nor energy to explain what an outlier is....again.

If I wanted to talk to a clown, I'd go to the circus.

If you had the first clue what an outlier truly was, you'd provide a single sample to back up your ignorant claim regarding coach's selection bias.

BTW. I'll buy circus tickets if you promise to leave and never come back

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17 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Also, what does the high school I attended over 15 years ago have anything to do with the topic at hand or DT's ability to spin and spew numbers and narratives out of his ass to further an agenda he's been on for over a decade? There's reason why he's quit, re-joined, quit, started his own site, rinse repeat for the last 15 years? He knows he's full of it as does everybody else and can't stand and has to take ball and run. 

It gets old. 

My agenda is competitive balance.  Its a good topic.  A good agenda, as you call it.  Contraction is a small element of the larger issue of competitive balance.  Classifications, The Success Factor, The Mercy Rule, scheduling, conference alignment, these are all elements that make or break competitive balance.  Its not a perfect science, but something that should be continuously improved upon.  Surely you can understand that.  

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8 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

If you had the first clue what an outlier truly was, you'd provide a single sample to back up your ignorant claim regarding coach's selection bias.

BTW. I'll buy circus tickets if you promise to leave and never come back

Said I wasn’t going to do it. Multiple pages worth detailing the large class, Indy bias to Mr. Football winners. Knock yourself out.

 

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9 minutes ago, HHF said:

My agenda is competitive balance.  Its a good topic.  A good agenda, as you call it.  Contraction is a small element of the larger issue of competitive balance.  Classifications, The Success Factor, The Mercy Rule, scheduling, conference alignment, these are all elements that make or break competitive balance.  Its not a perfect science, but something that should be continuously improved upon.  Surely you can understand that.  

How does contracting Benton Central or Bishop Noll make their respective classes more competitive?

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2 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Both...usually the best athletes don't have the grades to participate, and transferring is a common activity amongst all South Bend School students

Oh, OK you were talking about South Bend schools in particular.  I could potentially see that in a limited geographic area, but I was thinking if it statewide and it has that huge an impact on statewide player numbers, then we have a much bigger problem, as a state, than competitive balance in football.

Similarly, I would suspect the issue of declining numbers, due to transfer, to be more of a geographically-impactful item as opposed to a statewide issue; especially given that there's a lot more open-enrollment activity and there also seems to be a fairly decent among of "both ADs signing off" activity.  I could certainly see, if you are talking about just South Bend, how the transfer aspect could impact as the flow is most likely not in equilibrium.

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6 hours ago, temptation said:

Man, I love Cathedral and LCC posters chiming on these types of discussions.

So rich.

Yeah, what's even richer is that three of the five kids of this "LCC poster" have graduated or are about to graduate from Jeff, one is Harrison, and the fifth will be Harrison ... but let's not let the facts get in the way in our perception of ideas, right?

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6 hours ago, temptation said:

Man, I love Cathedral and LCC posters chiming on these types of discussions.

So rich.

Please stay on topic and away from singling out programs and/or posters. Your post is meant to troll their followers or bait them into an emotional reaction. Use the PM feature to have discussions with those posters directly, so they don't side track a thread in which actual competitive balance is the topic.

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11 hours ago, foxbat said:

Yeah, what's even richer is that three of the five kids of this "LCC poster" have graduated or are about to graduate from Jeff, one is Harrison, and the fifth will be Harrison ... but let's not let the facts get in the way in our perception of ideas, right?

Wow, somebody struck a nerve..................

15 hours ago, HHF said:

My agenda is competitive balance.  Its a good topic.  A good agenda, as you call it.  Contraction is a small element of the larger issue of competitive balance.  Classifications, The Success Factor, The Mercy Rule, scheduling, conference alignment, these are all elements that make or break competitive balance.  Its not a perfect science, but something that should be continuously improved upon.  Surely you can understand that.  

Quality over quantity, every time.  Unfortunately the P/P zealots on this forum don't see it that way.  They want their continued string of patsies, especially during tournament time,  to beat up on in order to cement their hegemony.

 

Edited by Muda69
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20 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Wow, somebody struck a nerve..................

Quality over quantity, every time.  Unfortunately the P/P zealots on this forum don't see it that way.  They want their continued string of patsies, especially during tournament time,  to beat up on in order to cement their hegemony.

 

 

5 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Please stay on topic and away from singling out programs and/or posters. Your post is meant to troll their followers or bait them into an emotional reaction. Use the PM feature to have discussions with those posters directly, so they don't side track a thread in which actual competitive balance is the topic.

 

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15 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Said I wasn’t going to do it. Multiple pages worth detailing the large class, Indy bias to Mr. Football winners. Knock yourself out.

 

Are you a career politician?  Smoke and mirrors.

AGAIN, I am going to ask you to provide one historical example since the Indiana Mr. Football award started in 1992, where one (JUST ONE) recepient from Indy metro was an undeserving award winner and the award should have went individual in a different area of the state.  I am giving you every opportunity to use an OUTLIER data point to make your case.  

I have ready Brady's passing stats and I know who has won the awards over time.  I'm done trying to get you to buy into largest populations, highest number of quality programs, largest population of high quality players, etc and the impact that has on the probability of success.  To you, its all about coaches that are biased and can't think for themselves because they read the IndyStar.  Pretty simple theory....just provide us an example where this has actually occurred.  A listing of award winners where a larger % of winners coming from central Indiana means nothing unless you can articulate with solid rationale WHY they weren't deserving and how selection bias led to their selection.  Without that, all you offer is OPINION and SPECULATION.  

The challenge remains in your court...give me ONE data point and make your case Mr. Stats....try not get frustrated, huff and puff and call others dumb because YOU can't make a case other then general speculation about selecting coach's behaviors.

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49 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Are you a career politician?  Smoke and mirrors.

AGAIN, I am going to ask you to provide one historical example since the Indiana Mr. Football award started in 1992, where one (JUST ONE) recepient from Indy metro was an undeserving award winner and the award should have went individual in a different area of the state.  I am giving you every opportunity to use an OUTLIER data point to make your case.  

I have ready Brady's passing stats and I know who has won the awards over time.  I'm done trying to get you to buy into largest populations, highest number of quality programs, largest population of high quality players, etc and the impact that has on the probability of success.  To you, its all about coaches that are biased and can't think for themselves because they read the IndyStar.  Pretty simple theory....just provide us an example where this has actually occurred.  A listing of award winners where a larger % of winners coming from central Indiana means nothing unless you can articulate with solid rationale WHY they weren't deserving and how selection bias led to their selection.  Without that, all you offer is OPINION and SPECULATION.  

The challenge remains in your court...give me ONE data point and make your case Mr. Stats....try not get frustrated, huff and puff and call others dumb because YOU can't make a case other then general speculation about selecting coach's behaviors.

This isn't hard to get. You can make a compelling case in every single year the award has been given that someone deserves the award over the winner. There's been one or two years where I thought there was an unanimous, no brainer winner. The fact that the award has gone to a large class, Indy area winner more than 60% of the time, reveals the bias in the award. 

I can make a case that in 2008 1A Nick Zachery from Sheridan deserved the award over 5A Morgan Newton from Carmel.

I can make a case that in 2005 4A Luke Schmidt from Jasper and 5A James Aldridge from Merrillville deserved the award over 5A Dexter Taylor from Warren Central who wasn't even the best back in his own backfield.

You could theoretically do this for every year if you truly wanted too. Point remains that when in doubt, the award more times than not goes to a player from Central Indiana who plays in one of the largest two classes. That's the bias in the award. 

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26 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Meh, this is weak.  Sheridan is in tony Hamilton county, part of the Indy metro area.  

Sheridan is also a 1A school and up until that time the state had never had a 1A winner. Again, there's more than enough data in the nearly 30 years the award has been given that shows the award goes to a 1) CENTRAL INDIANA PLAYER and 2) A LARGE CLASS PLAYER more times than it goes to anybody else. 

16/29 winners have come from Central Indiana

22/29 winners have come from the State's two largest classes a\with 14 of those from the largest class.

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7 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Please stay on topic and away from singling out programs and/or posters. Your post is meant to troll their followers or bait them into an emotional reaction. Use the PM feature to have discussions with those posters directly, so they don't side track a thread in which actual competitive balance is the topic.

Four pages of this crap and you single out Temptation? What am I missing here?

Keep up the good work DT. You provide 50% of the (good) content on this forum. 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Look, the GID Admin wannabee and resident Grammar Nazi is trying to be cute.

 

If I was a GID Admin wannabe, I would have accepted the position when it was offered. Grammar Nazi takes up too much time to take on another title in the GID.

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