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Recommended Contraction List - Class 4A/5A/6A


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Top reasons for Contraction :

1. Chronic lack of competitiveness

2. Chronic staff turnover

3. Low numbers

4. Poor administrative support

5. Poor community support

6. Lack of coordinated feeder system

7. Strong apathetic attitude towards football

8. Competitive consolidation

9. Merger consolidation

 

56 259 Connersville 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 19.97 44.06 170 22.21 251 17.76 263
        36.12 225 16.31 265 18.99 261
58 276 Indianapolis Shortridge 1,2,3,4,5,6,8, 12.10 23.50 284 10.62 279 12.10 275
59 280 Indianapolis Attucks 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 8, 11.45 25.42 276 8.86 282 11.77 276
        38.18 208 2.53 293 0.96 296
61 303 South Bend Clay 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, -2.95 39.14 202 -3.02 302 -4.09 305

Overall 2021 Sagarin Rating hilited in bold

* It is recommended that Shortridge and Attucks drop football as a means to further strengthen the Tech program by consolidating IPS football players to one central public school.  This was the vision of Dr White

* Football does not fit the specialized curriculum offered at SB Clay and should be dropped, which will also potentially strengthen the other 3 remaining city public school programs.  

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3 hours ago, HHF said:

Top reasons for Contraction :

1. Chronic lack of competitiveness

2. Chronic staff turnover

3. Low numbers

4. Poor administrative support

5. Poor community support

6. Lack of coordinated feeder system

7. Strong apathetic attitude towards football

8. Competitive consolidation

9. Merger consolidation

 

56 259 Connersville 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 19.97 44.06 170 22.21 251 17.76 263
        36.12 225 16.31 265 18.99 261
58 276 Indianapolis Shortridge 1,2,3,4,5,6,8, 12.10 23.50 284 10.62 279 12.10 275
59 280 Indianapolis Attucks 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 8, 11.45 25.42 276 8.86 282 11.77 276
        38.18 208 2.53 293 0.96 296
61 303 South Bend Clay 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, -2.95 39.14 202 -3.02 302 -4.09 305

Overall 2021 Sagarin Rating hilited in bold

* It is recommended that Shortridge and Attucks drop football as a means to further strengthen the Tech program by consolidating IPS football players to one central public school.  This was the vision of Dr White

* Football does not fit the specialized curriculum offered at SB Clay and should be dropped, which will also potentially strengthen the other 3 remaining city public school programs.  

Your reason for adding Connersville but taking out Jay County and East Chicago Central is?

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23 minutes ago, Old Man High Pants said:

Your reason for adding Connersville but taking out Jay County and East Chicago Central is?

I was hoping you would ask . 

 

Jay County has hired a serious football coach in Grant Zgunda.  They appear to be in the process of rebuilding the program and I would like to see where Coach Zgunda can take the program.

East Chicago is one of the great dynasties of Indiana High School football, maybe the greatest ever.   It is historic in nature and cannot be allowed to fail.  The Cardinals played in the semistate in 2013.  The program is not dead.  It can be revived.

Connersville, like Rushville,  is the poster school for those who feel that football is to be endured until basketball season starts.  The school hits all the criteria to be considered for contraction.  They would do well by their student body to contract football and reallocate those valuable resources towards other more cost effective and positive endeavors.  

 

Edited by HHF
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39 minutes ago, HHF said:

I was hoping you would ask . 

 

Jay County has hired a serious football coach in Grant Zgunda.  They appear to be in the process of rebuilding the program and I would like to see where Coach Zgunda can take the program.

East Chicago is one of the great dynasties of Indiana High School football, maybe the greatest ever.   It is historic in nature and cannot be allowed to fail.  The Cardinals played in the semistate in 2013.  The program is not dead.  It can be revived.

Connersville, like Rushville,  is the poster school for those who feel that football is to be endured until basketball season starts.  The school hits all the criteria to be considered for contraction.  They would do well by their student body to contract football and reallocate those valuable resources towards other more cost effective and positive endeavors.  

 

East Chicago Central has one sectional in the last 35 years according to John Harrell. They made one semistate almost a decade ago and haven't won any playoff championships since, sounds like a blind squirrel finding a nut. How does that make them one of the "greatest ever" and "too big to fail"? I'm from the opposite corner of the state and can tell you I'd be hard pressed to find 10 local football fans who can tell me anything about them. Sounds like you're a little biased for some reason on that one. 

As far as Connersville and Rushville your reasoning falls apart with keeping Jay County off your list. How do you know they don't have the right coaches for the job now? How does a team like that go about hiring a what you would call "serious football coach"? And no offense to the man, I've never met him, but I'm pretty sure Eric Moore couldn't win at any of the four schools mentioned. 

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1 hour ago, Old Man High Pants said:

And no offense to the man, I've never met him, but I'm pretty sure Eric Moore couldn't win at any of the four schools mentioned. 

Playing devil's advocate here - if that is how you feel about those schools - that one of the best high school coaches to ever roam the sidelines in Indiana could not win at any of the four schools mentioned... shouldn't they consider contraction and eliminating football?

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36 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Playing devil's advocate here - if that is how you feel about those schools - that one of the best high school coaches to ever roam the sidelines in Indiana could not win at any of the four schools mentioned... shouldn't they consider contraction and eliminating football?

Contracting a school's football program because they have no shot at winning a state title is about as bad as an idea there is. Much more to football at this level than winning. 

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1 hour ago, Old Man High Pants said:

East Chicago Central has one sectional in the last 35 years according to John Harrell. They made one semistate almost a decade ago and haven't won any playoff championships since, sounds like a blind squirrel finding a nut. How does that make them one of the "greatest ever" and "too big to fail"? I'm from the opposite corner of the state and can tell you I'd be hard pressed to find 10 local football fans who can tell me anything about them. Sounds like you're a little biased for some reason on that one. 

As far as Connersville and Rushville your reasoning falls apart with keeping Jay County off your list. How do you know they don't have the right coaches for the job now? How does a team like that go about hiring a what you would call "serious football coach"? And no offense to the man, I've never met him, but I'm pretty sure Eric Moore couldn't win at any of the four schools mentioned. 

ECC central has quite a few D1 players over time including nfl player Kawaan Short. The talent is there is just a matter of reviving the program.

 

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Contracting a school's football program because they have no shot at winning a state title is about as bad as an idea there is. Much more to football at this level than winning. 

He said nothing about winning a state title.  How about a winning season one every other decade?  Or a sectional or conf championship?  Or maybe even a 2 game winning streak.  

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Contracting a school's football program because they have no shot at winning a state title is about as bad as an idea there is. Much more to football at this level than winning. 

I wasn't asking you - and as @HHF stated, I did not say anything about winning a state title. I was just asking if @Old Man High Pants truly felt that one of the best Indiana high school coaches of all time could not win at "said" schools, would that not lead credence to the consideration of contracting/eliminating the football program at "said" schools?

And I certainly do not disagree there is more to football than winning at the high school level. I would guess just about everyone on this board agrees on that.

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11 minutes ago, HHF said:

He said nothing about winning a state title.  How about a winning season one every other decade?  Or a sectional or conf championship?  Or maybe even a 2 game winning streak.  

As I said there is entirely more to high school football than a win-loss record. It should not be taken away on that principle alone.

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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

As I said there is entirely more to high school football than a win-loss record. It should not be taken away on that principle alone.

Kids can learn life lessons and make life long relationships with or without football.  Football players dont learn any more life lessons or make better long standing relationships than do soccer players, chess club members or band members.  Or maybe you have some hard statistical data you would like to share on that?

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2 minutes ago, HHF said:

Kids can learn life lessons and make life long relationships with or without football.  Football players dont learn any more life lessons or make better long standing relationships than do soccer players, chess club members or band members.  Or maybe you have some hard statistical data you would like to share on that?

That decision should be left to the community and school administrators, not some blowhard on the GID.

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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

That decision should be left to the community and school administrators, not some blowhard on the GID.

LOL

Some schools need to be pushed over the edge.  If the IHSAA can push a school up or down in class, it should also be able to push them out for failing to field a safe, complete and competitive football team.  

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

LOL

Some schools need to be pushed over the edge.  If the IHSAA can push a school up or down in class, it should also be able to push them out for failing to field a safe, complete and competitive football team.  

How about we get to this point before we throw the baby out with the bathwater?  Or even just provide the option with qualifications.

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1 minute ago, foxbat said:

How about we get to this point before we throw the baby out with the bathwater?  Or even just provide the option with qualifications.

Why are you and so many others so hell bent on saving morbidly bad football programs?  

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1 hour ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Clay will never be contracted.  The South Bend schools do not want to give up another building to the charter schools.

However, I do believe some schools should be relegated to a lower class.

We are not talking about closing the school.  We are just suggesting that the football program be contracted.  Clay is a visual and performing arts magnet.  Not exactly the kind of place that will draw a lot of polished football players.

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37 minutes ago, HHF said:

Why are you and so many others so hell bent on saving morbidly bad football programs?  

I'm also not a big fan of not providing options.

34 minutes ago, HHF said:

We are not talking about closing the school.  We are just suggesting that the football program be contracted.  Clay is a visual and performing arts magnet.  Not exactly the kind of place that will draw a lot of polished football players.

University of Oklahoma is well-known for its arts programs as well as its 7 Heisman Trophy winners, 5 Outland Trophy winners, 7 National Championships, and 3 collegiate Butkus winners.  Incidentally, the young lady in the first picture dances for the Fort Wayne Ballet now.

 

2018

Dance and Football

 

Dance and Basketball

 

2005

A poster of lineman Davin Joseph from 2005 in OU's student union.

 

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4 minutes ago, foxbat said:

I'm also not a big fan of not providing options.

University of Oklahoma is well-known for its arts programs as well as its 7 Heisman Trophy winners, 5 Outland Trophy winners, 7 National Championships, and 3 collegiate Butkus winners.  Incidentally, the young lady in the first picture dances for the Fort Wayne Ballet now.

 

2018

Dance and Football

 

Dance and Basketball

 

2005

A poster of lineman Davin Joseph from 2005 in OU's student union.

 

Thank goodness it's not the Windsor Ballet!!!   

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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

I'm also not a big fan of not providing options.

University of Oklahoma is well-known for its arts programs as well as its 7 Heisman Trophy winners, 5 Outland Trophy winners, 7 National Championships, and 3 collegiate Butkus winners.  Incidentally, the young lady in the first picture dances for the Fort Wayne Ballet now.

 

2018

Dance and Football

 

Dance and Basketball

 

2005

A poster of lineman Davin Joseph from 2005 in OU's student union.

 

South Bend Clay is 3-67 since 2015.  Let me say that again.  3-67.  The team was outscored 450-29 this past season.  Five different head coaches during this 7 year period.  And this was a good experience for these young people?  These past 6 years have been a fine experience for all involved with this program?  

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14 hours ago, HHF said:

Kids can learn life lessons and make life long relationships with or without football.  Football players dont learn any more life lessons or make better long standing relationships than do soccer players, chess club members or band members.  Or maybe you have some hard statistical data you would like to share on that?

There is no way you played the game if you make a statement like this. I think you should be add to the GID contraction list.  

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16 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Playing devil's advocate here - if that is how you feel about those schools - that one of the best high school coaches to ever roam the sidelines in Indiana could not win at any of the four schools mentioned... shouldn't they consider contraction and eliminating football?

As far as the programs are concerned maybe they should. My reason for bringing up Coach Moore is that HH's comment about "serious coaching" candidates rubbed me the wrong way. I know the young man who just resigned from Connersville, and I can assure you he is a "serious  coach". Just because he'd never been a head coach before and didn't have a bunch of success doesn't mean he was a serious coach. I'd like to think the majority of coaches are serious about what they do and many times they have a lot of things working against them. 

 

15 hours ago, Whiting89 said:

ECC central has quite a few D1 players over time including nfl player Kawaan Short. The talent is there is just a matter of reviving the program.

 

D1 players can come from any school, even more reason not to contract. And a few D1 players does not make an "all time, too big to fail" program. 

14 hours ago, HHF said:

He said nothing about winning a state title.  How about a winning season one every other decade?  Or a sectional or conf championship?  Or maybe even a 2 game winning streak.  

Connersville made it to their first ever sectional championship game this year off of a two win playoff streak. Guess you can strike them off the list then.

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27 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

There is no way you played the game if you make a statement like this. I think you should be add to the GID contraction list.  

👍

It's a unique person that plays football.  It's not for everyone though ... and that's OK.  When I coached youth ball, we used to tell them that football is one of the few sports that when just about anyone on the team doesn't do their job, they are literally risking injury to another.  It's a very high level of responsibility.  I've played many different sports from singles to doubles to team during my life from youth to high school to adulthood and football holds a very special place for me and many of the things learned there resonate even today.

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12 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Thank goodness it's not the Windsor Ballet!!!   

What are you say, eh?

10 hours ago, HHF said:

South Bend Clay is 3-67 since 2015.  Let me say that again.  3-67.  The team was outscored 450-29 this past season.  Five different head coaches during this 7 year period.  And this was a good experience for these young people?  These past 6 years have been a fine experience for all involved with this program?  

Another segway? 

What the heck does that have to do with the statement that a school with strong arts doesn't attract football types?

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