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New MIC 10 on the Horizon


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The MIC can and will use this opportunity to rebuild its membership roster and fill the gaping holes left by the departures of Carmel and Center Grove.

I think the conference will remain local, for the most part, and invite the following schools as it expands to a 10 team league.

Indianapolis Tech - Dr White's dream finally fulfilled.  Tech comes into the conference and helps The MIC continue to establish itself as the strongest hoops conference in the state, by a long shot.  The MIC identity will transform from a football driven to a basketball driven conference over the next decade.  Tech football will get a boost as several established head coaches with state championship pedigrees will be attracted to compete in this newly expanded conference.  

Columbus North - one of the great blue blood athletic programs in Indiana, North is 4th in state history with 40 state championship trophies.  The Bulldogs have long standing relationships with Indy area schools, and those relationships pay off as CN moves from shaky ground in Conference Indiana to a solid foundation in The MIC 10. 

Southport - The Cardinals are a 6A school in need of a fresh infusion of competitive juice.  The school has a proud history and brings strong local ties to the league. 

Franklin Central - this will be the toughest get for the MIC 10, as the Flashes are still just settling in to their fairly new digs in The HCC.  FC, with a strong push from former WC and LC Coach Jason West, will come to the realization that the MIC affiliation is simply a better fit for its students than the haughty suburban oriented HCC.  Center Grove slides into FCs position in the HCC, and FC moves into The MIC 10. 

What happens to Carmel?

The Hounds, after getting rejected by The HCC, will realize that they have grown too large for any Indiana conference and will go independent.  

 

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

Indianapolis Tech - The MIC identity will transform from a football driven to a basketball driven conference over the next decade.  Tech football will get a boost 

Columbus North - one of the great blue blood athletic programs in Indiana,

Southport - The Cardinals need a fresh infusion of competitive juice.  

Franklin Central -with a strong push from former WC and LC Coach Jason West

 

I’m sorry. The MIC is much, much than an athletics conference.

The Moose out front should have told you. 

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

Indianapolis Tech - Dr White's dream finally fulfilled.  Tech comes into the conference and helps The MIC continue to establish itself as the strongest hoops conference in the state, by a long shot.  The MIC identity will transform from a football driven to a basketball driven conference over the next decade.  Tech football will get a boost as several established head coaches with state championship pedigrees will be attracted to compete in this newly expanded conference.

Tech is a joke.  They are an average football team in a weak NCC.  Boys Basketball is going to get busted for undue influence. They can barely field varsity teams in most sports, and their enrollment continues to plummet (2608 in 2018 to 2089 in 2020).  Every few years IPS “reorganizes” and tries to push enrollment at Tech back up, but it never lasts.  NCC administrators have discussed removing them from the conference on more than one occasion in the last few years. Maybe that opens the door for them to go to the MIC, but they will not be competitive in anything but boys basketball.  Once the AAU coach gets canned or moves on they will have a tough time competing in basketball also.

I could see Southport joining the MIC.  I don’t think Franklin Central would go back but they might if Carmel and Center Grove join the HCC.  Avon switching to the MIC might make some sense if the Orioles think they can find more wins by making the jump.

Maybe the MIC considers Cathedral and goes with a 7 team league. Cathedral could be open to that with a 6 game conference schedule for football, which leaves open 3 games for Chatard, Roncalli, and a Cincinnati Catholic school (or Center Grove).

I would be interested in a 12 team HCC.  I mentioned this in a related topic recently:

HCC North: Carmel, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville, Westfield, Zionsville

HCC South: Avon, Brownsburg, Center Grove, Columbus North, Franklin Central, Southport

5 games against division opponents, and a crossover game in week 9 for 6 conference games total. No need to play more since these teams will likely play in the postseason anyway.  That leaves 3 non-conference games just like you would have in a 7 team MIC with Cathedral.

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3 minutes ago, HoopsCoach said:

Tech is a joke.  They are an average football team in a weak NCC.  Boys Basketball is going to get busted for undue influence. They can barely field varsity teams in most sports, and their enrollment continues to plummet (2608 in 2018 to 2089 in 2020).  Every few years IPS “reorganizes” and tries to push enrollment at Tech back up, but it never lasts.  NCC administrators have discussed removing them from the conference on more than one occasion in the last few years. Maybe that opens the door for them to go to the MIC, but they will not be competitive in anything but boys basketball.  Once the AAU coach gets canned or moves on they will have a tough time competing in basketball also.

I could see Southport joining the MIC.  I don’t think Franklin Central would go back but they might if Carmel and Center Grove join the HCC.  Avon switching to the MIC might make some sense if the Orioles think they can find more wins by making the jump.

Maybe the MIC considers Cathedral and goes with a 7 team league. Cathedral could be open to that with a 6 game conference schedule for football, which leaves open 3 games for Chatard, Roncalli, and a Cincinnati Catholic school (or Center Grove).

I would be interested in a 12 team HCC.  I mentioned this in a related topic recently:

HCC North: Carmel, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville, Westfield, Zionsville

HCC South: Avon, Brownsburg, Center Grove, Columbus North, Franklin Central, Southport

5 games against division opponents, and a crossover game in week 9 for 6 conference games total. No need to play more since these teams will likely play in the postseason anyway.  That leaves 3 non-conference games just like you would have in a 7 team MIC with Cathedral.

Good points.  With regards to Cathedral, I would think the New MIC is much less appealing minus Carmel and CG.  The MId State is close to The MIC minus CG and CA.  Its really incredible how far and how quickly BD and WC have fallen , whether its reality or perception.  

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8 hours ago, HHF said:

Columbus North - one of the great blue blood athletic programs in Indiana, North is 4th in state history with 40 state championship trophies.  The Bulldogs have long standing relationships with Indy area schools, and those relationships pay off as CN moves from shaky ground in Conference Indiana to a solid foundation in The MIC 10. 

Hold up. You literally interviewed Columbus North head coach Tim Bless back in July and, in that interview, he whined about the unfairness of having to play the 6A mega schools in the state tournament every year. He said the size discrepancy was “ridiculous and, in some cases, borderline unsafe.”

So my question to you is, based on that interview, how do you justify Columbus North making the move to the MIC when Ben Davis is more than twice the size of North, Warren Central and North Central are nearly twice the size of North, and Pike has 1,000+ more students than North? Is that not a “safety concern”?

North can’t even get out of sectionals due to a Center Grove team that has roughly 500 more students enrolled than North. Was he suggesting they were too big for North to compete with as well? If so, then Lawrence North would be too big also since they’re slightly bigger than Center Grove.

So I guess what I’m really saying is this. Either your suggestion of Columbus North jumping to the MIC is ridiculous or Tim Bless is full of crap and is bitter about not being able to beat Center Grove.

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1 hour ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Hold up. You literally interviewed Columbus North head coach Tim Bless back in July and, in that interview, he whined about the unfairness of having to play the 6A mega schools in the state tournament every year. He said the size discrepancy was “ridiculous and, in some cases, borderline unsafe.”

So my question to you is, based on that interview, how do you justify Columbus North making the move to the MIC when Ben Davis is more than twice the size of North, Warren Central and North Central are nearly twice the size of North, and Pike has 1,000+ more students than North? Is that not a “safety concern”?

North can’t even get out of sectionals due to a Center Grove team that has roughly 500 more students enrolled than North. Was he suggesting they were too big for North to compete with as well? If so, then Lawrence North would be too big also since they’re slightly bigger than Center Grove.

So I guess what I’m really saying is this. Either your suggestion of Columbus North jumping to the MIC is ridiculous or Tim Bless is full of crap and is bitter about not being able to beat Center Grove.

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Impressive bit of research.  3 factors immediately come to mind as I contemplate your question.

1. CN is not at all thrilled with the year to year instability of Conference Indiana.  Travel to Bloomington and Terre Haute are less than desirable.  The school would prefer to find a new long term home.

2. Joining The New MIC means avoiding CG and CA during the regular season.  Meeting them in the post season is something I think Bless would eventually embrace, assuming he has a strong team to offer.  

3. Outside of CG and CA, the MIC is in a downward spiral from a competitive standpoint.  I doubt he is intimidated at the prospect of playing BD and WC.  CN played both Roncalli and Cathedral this year, 2 Top 5 teams in the state.  I dont see CN hiding from this type of challenge.  Bless was giving his best Lou Holtz response when he addressed the enrollment question.  

 

The chance to be in the spotlight every Friday night and away from the CI nightmare should be a no brainer for CN.  They should already have their application in as we speak.

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8 minutes ago, HHF said:

Impressive bit of research.  3 factors immediately come to mind as I contemplate your question.

1. CN is not at all thrilled with the year to year instability of Conference Indiana.  Travel to Bloomington and Terre Haute are less than desirable.  The school would prefer to find a new long term home.

2. Joining The New MIC means avoiding CG and CA during the regular season.  Meeting them in the post season is something I think Bless would eventually embrace, assuming he has a strong team to offer.  

3. Outside of CG and CA, the MIC is in a downward spiral from a competitive standpoint.  I doubt he is intimidated at the prospect of playing BD and WC.  CN played both Roncalli and Cathedral this year, 2 Top 5 teams in the state.  I dont see CN hiding from this type of challenge.  Bless was giving his best Lou Holtz response when he addressed the enrollment question.  

 

The chance to be in the spotlight every Friday night and away from the CI nightmare should be a no brainer for CN.  They should already have their application in as we speak.

This is where I disagree. I can understand them joining the MIC as long as football is independent. Even a weaker MIC in football is still a huge jump in competition for Columbus North. Look at all the years they’ve lost to Center Grove in sectionals. Some of those CG teams weren’t all that great in relation to the last couple years or in terms of where they finished in the conference at the time. 

You are correct in your statement that Columbus North isn’t thrilled about Conference Indiana’s instability. They’ve tried bringing in Columbus East and other schools in the past few years to help stabilize it only to be turned down. If an opportunity presents itself, I could definitely see them bolting.

In regards to travel, the ride to Bloomington is not a burden for Columbus North. First of all, it’s not that far. Secondly, the Columbus North vs Bloomington South rivalry goes all the way back to when they were the sole high schools of their cities. North has no problem playing Bloomington South or even Bloomington North for that matter.

Also, I’m not suggesting Bless is afraid of playing teams solely because they’re good. I think it’s a combination of how good they are plus the depth those schools have. That’s the safety concerns he’s referring to. While North may have the depth to fill in some injury holes against schools of similar or lesser size, there’s a much larger talent disparity between their reserves and those of a large school like Ben Davis or Warren Central.

To play schools of that size on a consistent basis will beat you up and deplete you. Unlike Fort Wayne Luers up in the SAC, there is no upside for North in playing schools like that when it doesn’t prepare them for the postseason. It only leaves them banged up for the already brutal 6A state tournament. So if you can’t win a 6A sectional then the only reward to a season is a conference title. And, as I already stated, that isn’t happening in the MIC due to the sizes of the schools and roster depth of their teams.

Personally, I feel one of three options is going to happen for North. Option 1, they’ll apply to join the Mid-State Conference if an opening pops up. Option 2, they go independent in football. A high profile school with the athletic success they have shouldn’t be hindered from finding eight opponents annually for their schedule. Option 3, they ride it out with Conference Indiana until a dissolution or further contraction forces them to move on. 

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I think Franklin Central and Southport should join for sure. It makes so much sense to me and probably all of us. I just do not see them wanting to at this time. Franklin Central is rumored to have already turned down an invitation to the MIC just this week. The same goes for Avon.

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6 minutes ago, FridayNightLights said:

Avon wants no part of that. Not happening. Per very reliable inside source. 

Give it time.  Were CG and Carmel to join/be accepted, Avon will not win ONE conference championship in any male/female sport.  They'd better reconsider before its too late.

Same goes for Franklin Central.

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9 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Hold up. You literally interviewed Columbus North head coach Tim Bless back in July and, in that interview, he whined about the unfairness of having to play the 6A mega schools in the state tournament every year. He said the size discrepancy was “ridiculous and, in some cases, borderline unsafe.”

So my question to you is, based on that interview, how do you justify Columbus North making the move to the MIC when Ben Davis is more than twice the size of North, Warren Central and North Central are nearly twice the size of North, and Pike has 1,000+ more students than North? Is that not a “safety concern”?

North can’t even get out of sectionals due to a Center Grove team that has roughly 500 more students enrolled than North. Was he suggesting they were too big for North to compete with as well? If so, then Lawrence North would be too big also since they’re slightly bigger than Center Grove.

So I guess what I’m really saying is this. Either your suggestion of Columbus North jumping to the MIC is ridiculous or Tim Bless is full of crap and is bitter about not being able to beat Center Grove.

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They're both full of crap. Both can, and in this case are, true. 

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

Give it time.  Were CG and Carmel to join/be accepted, Avon will not win ONE conference championship in any male/female sport.  They'd better reconsider before its too late.

Same goes for Franklin Central.

I don't think any school in the HCC will win anything besides the school that has 3x the enrollment of most of the schools, in most cases. I don't see them all abandoning ship. The HCC schools (including Avon) are growing at a rapid rate. They'll be fine. 

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10 minutes ago, FridayNightLights said:

I don't think any school in the HCC will win anything besides the school that has 3x the enrollment of most of the schools, in most cases. I don't see them all abandoning ship. The HCC schools (including Avon) are growing at a rapid rate. They'll be fine. 

Avon’s F/R/L percentage (there it is again) is 6x that of Zionsville’s and 4x that of Carmel’s and the gap is growing.

If by “fine” you mean bottom half of the conference in every sport, you’re right.

They’d have the lowest rate among current MIC schools.

They need to make the move.

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4 minutes ago, temptation said:

Avon’s F/R/L percentage (there it is again) is 6x that of Zionsville’s and 4x that of Carmel’s and the gap is growing.

If by “fine” you mean bottom half of the conference in every sport, you’re right.

They’d have the lowest rate among current MIC schools.

They need to make the move.

A state championship in both Volleyball and Track in the past 5 years seem to say they'd be okay in some sports....wrestling is generally a top 10 program in the state. Bless has made the football team competitive in the HCC including a conference championship in 2019...

 

I'm sure DC's F/R/L is much higher than the average in the Mid-State...doesn't mean you can't compete....Avon is still affluent in a large part of the town...again....they'll be alright.

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52 minutes ago, FridayNightLights said:

A state championship in both Volleyball and Track in the past 5 years seem to say they'd be okay in some sports....wrestling is generally a top 10 program in the state. Bless has made the football team competitive in the HCC including a conference championship in 2019...

 

I'm sure DC's F/R/L is much higher than the average in the Mid-State...doesn't mean you can't compete....Avon is still affluent in a large part of the town...again....they'll be alright.

What was the deal with Avon's football team this year? Saw they won one game? Young with a lot of roster turnover I take it?

Avon's put out some serious D1 talent the last few years.

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1 hour ago, FridayNightLights said:

I don't think any school in the HCC will win anything besides the school that has 3x the enrollment of most of the schools, in most cases. I don't see them all abandoning ship. The HCC schools (including Avon) are growing at a rapid rate. They'll be fine. 

Hence the reason HCC ADs will prevail and Carmel will not get in.  

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1 hour ago, FridayNightLights said:

A state championship in both Volleyball and Track in the past 5 years seem to say they'd be okay in some sports....wrestling is generally a top 10 program in the state. Bless has made the football team competitive in the HCC including a conference championship in 2019...

 

I'm sure DC's F/R/L is much higher than the average in the Mid-State...doesn't mean you can't compete....Avon is still affluent in a large part of the town...again....they'll be alright.

We will agree to disagree.  The ability to compete in the Mid-State versus the ability to compete in the MIC/HCC is an apples to oranges comparison in my opinion.

1 minute ago, HHF said:

Hence the reason HCC ADs will prevail and Carmel will not get in.  

You think the AD's will influence the principals to vote no on Carmel, huh?

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Just now, temptation said:

We will agree to disagree.  The ability to compete in the Mid-State versus the ability to compete in the MIC/HCC is an apples to oranges comparison in my opinion.

Agree completely

Its a Big Ten - MAC comparison

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

We will agree to disagree.  The ability to compete in the Mid-State versus the ability to compete in the MIC/HCC is an apples to oranges comparison in my opinion.

You think the AD's will influence the principals to vote no on Carmel, huh?

I think the principals will listen to the argument.  

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3 minutes ago, HHF said:

Agree completely

Its a Big Ten - MAC comparison

I think the principals will listen to the argument.  

And ONE of the MAIN reasons its an apples to oranges comparison conflicts directly with the MIC's virtue signaling of being "more than an athletic conference."

The commitment to athletics in the Mid-State is much different than the commitment of the MIC/HCC, no matter how hard the MIC principals and AD's try to spin it.

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1 minute ago, temptation said:

And ONE of the MAIN reasons its an apples to oranges comparison conflicts directly with the MIC's virtue signaling of being "more than an athletic conference."

The commitment to athletics in the Mid-State is much different than the commitment of the MIC/HCC, no matter how hard the MIC principals and AD's try to spin it.

 

 

Elaborate

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4 minutes ago, HHF said:
6 minutes ago, temptation said:

And ONE of the MAIN reasons its an apples to oranges comparison conflicts directly with the MIC's virtue signaling of being "more than an athletic conference."

The commitment to athletics in the Mid-State is much different than the commitment of the MIC/HCC, no matter how hard the MIC principals and AD's try to spin it.

 

 

Elaborate

Many Mid-State programs are still of the old school mentality in hiring teachers first and if they are great coaches then so be it...the HCC/MIC use the college/SEC model of hiring great coaches and finding teaching positions for them...and the outrageous salary differences bear that out.

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15 minutes ago, temptation said:

Many Mid-State programs are still of the old school mentality in hiring teachers first and if they are great coaches then so be it...the HCC/MIC use the college/SEC model of hiring great coaches and finding teaching positions for them...and the outrageous salary differences bear that out.

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