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Lets follow the Oklahoma Model / Split 6A in 6A1 and 6A2


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http://www.ossaa.com/Football.aspx

Oklahoma has a similar problem as does Indiana.  It has a small number of schools (Jenks/Union) in Tulsa that dominate the biggest class, same as we do in Indianapolis with our Big 4 (WC/BD/CA/CG)  Indiana has approx twice the population of Oklahoma, so the Class structures make sense.

Oklahoma has 16 schools in the biggest class, and they break it up into 2 Divisions of 8 schools each, by enrollment, with a 3 week tournament

We can and should do the same thing in Indiana, leaving 6A with 32 schools and breaking them into 2 16 school subgroups, with a 4 week tournament  This will create another class tournament and another state champion, and give some very deserving schools an opportunity to win a title.  

Had we used the 6A1 and 6A2 class setup this year, our tournaments would have looked like this :

Class 6A1

1112 Carmel High School 1,359 1,338 1,267 1,322 5286 AAAAAA 1 2221 Ben Davis High School 1263 1075 1100 1061 4499 AAAAAA 2 3433 Warren Central High School 961 962 960 938 3821 AAAAAA 3 4344 North Central (Indpls.) High School 973 939 872 943 3727 AAAAAA 4 5 7 9 14 Fishers High School 950 887 862 810 3509 AAAAAA 5 6555 Penn High School 840 856 782 860 3338 AAAAAA 6 7866 Lake Central High School 827 850 795 844 3316 AAAAAA 7 8677 Pike High School 909 825 792 769 3295 AAAAAA 8 9988 Hamilton Southeastern HS 827 803 840 803 3273 AAAAAA 9 10 10 10 12 Avon High School 838 770 724 763 3095 AAAAAA 10 11 11 11 10 Noblesville High School 805 744 750 702 3001 AAAAAA 11 12 12 12 11 Crown Point High School 735 704 697 719 2855 AAAAAA 12 13 14 16 18 Brownsburg High School 726 676 693 715 2810 AAAAAA 13 14 13 13 13 Franklin Central High School 759 719 700 626 2804 AAAAAA 14 15 33 44 16 Indpls. Arsenal Technical High Schoo 614 716 696 582 2608 AAAAAA 15 16 17 19 20 Lawrence North High School 702 607 632 655 2596 AAAAAA

Class 6A2

17 16 15 17 Center Grove High School 648 640 630 603 2521 AAAAAA 17 18 18 20 23 Perry Meridian High School 626 619 605 595 2445 AAAAAA 18 19 15 14 9 Portage High School 620 586 621 609 2436 AAAAAA 19 20 19 18 21 Homestead Senior High School 678 580 586 580 2424 AAAAAA 20 21 21 24 28 Carroll (F.W.) High School 597 652 598 565 2412 AAAAAA 21 22 25 34 40 Westfield High School 668 573 563 530 2334 AAAAAA 22 23 20 17 15 Lawrence Central High School 539 565 616 570 2290 AAAAAA 23 24 23 26 26 Southport High School 588 589 559 518 2254 AAAAAA 24 25 22 21 19 Merrillville High Sch 564 527 557 539 2187 AAAAAA 25 26 24 25 25 Warsaw Community HS 548 511 518 526 2103 AAAAAA 26 27 30 33 32 Lafayette Jefferson High School 587 492 546 438 2063 AAAAAA 27 28 31 28 29 Columbus North High School 568 535 470 490 2063 AAAAAA 28 29 28 29 30 Chesterton Senior High School 561 512 509 481 2063 AAAAAA 29 30 36 43 44 Zionsville Community High Sch 553 504 492 506 2055 AAAAAA 30 31 27 27 24 Valparaiso High School 511 477 529 537 2054 AAAAAA 31 62 61 63 68 Elkhart High School

Schools will move up and down between the classes based on enrollment changes and the Success Factor.  CG, with 2 straight state titles, would likely be bumped up into 6A1.  CGs next enrollment number will probably put them in the Top 16 anyway.  Tech will certainly drop out, and LN could as well.  

We would add a 10th regular season game for these schools as they have the depth and resources to take on an additional game.  The 10th game would occur in week 10, week 11 would be a bye week, and the the two 6A tournaments would run weeks 12-15.

The 10th game would be a 32 team open draw where the IHSAA would match 6A1 schools vs 6A2 schools o avoid any potential overlap of tournament games.

We could see some great matchups like Ben Davis vs Merrillville,  Fishers vs Homestead, Noblesville vs Warsaw, etc.

What are your thoughts.    

Oklahoma knows a little about football.  Wouldn't hurt Indiana to follow The Sooner State's lead on this one.  

 

 

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I would be okay with it…but if a team wins the 6A2 title they should move to 6A1.  Forget the success factor rules for that 

 

still a firm believer that 5A should be 64 teams and 1A should be closer to 32. 
 

6A1 - 16 teams 

6A2 - 16 teams 

5A - 64 teams

4A - 64 teams 

3A - 64 teams 

2A - 64 teams

1A - the remaining teams 

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4 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

Illinois is the best playoffs with classes determined by enrollment of playoff teams. I believe that’s the way they still do it.

Is that how they do it?  
 

it would require Indiana to move to a Non “All in” format though.  
 

also if I recall correctly, Illinois has playoff games where teams travel incredible distances just based on seeding.  Definitely not a fan of that.  I think it’s crazy if teams have to travel 3 hours for non state championship games.  Poor Lawrenceburg/ all of SE Indiana gets screwed on this every year 

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I mean this is all seriousness when I say this but you need to just upload file of how you would do all teams in all classes. Use whatever success/private bump you wanna and split em up in whatever classes you would sort by. Let's see the whole picture and see how much people would really complain 

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13 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Is that how they do it?  
 

it would require Indiana to move to a Non “All in” format though.  
 

also if I recall correctly, Illinois has playoff games where teams travel incredible distances just based on seeding.  Definitely not a fan of that.  I think it’s crazy if teams have to travel 3 hours for non state championship games.  Poor Lawrenceburg/ all of SE Indiana gets screwed on this every year 

https://www.ihsa.org/data/fb/playoffs.htm
Travels isn’t nothing here in Nevada some schools travel 4-5 hours for conference games essentially border of Utah to California as we have California schools that are part of the Nevada high school association because of the mountain divide.

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4 minutes ago, WWFan said:

I mean this is all seriousness when I say this but you need to just upload file of how you would do all teams in all classes. Use whatever success/private bump you wanna and split em up in whatever classes you would sort by. Let's see the whole picture and see how much people would really complain 

Thats not necessary.  We have classes broken down by enrollment.  That is how it should be.  Then you use tools like the Success Factor and the 1A/2A split to further fine tune the structure to improve competitive balance.  Its not a perfect science, but we are getting closer to optimun balance.   That is the real goal.  

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8 minutes ago, HHF said:

Thats not necessary.  We have classes broken down by enrollment.  That is how it should be.  Then you use tools like the Success Factor and the 1A/2A split to further fine tune the structure to improve competitive balance.  Its not a perfect science, but we are getting closer to optimun balance.   That is the real goal.  

But you have said no private should be in class A. I'm not here to stir that pot...its a fight I refuse to partake in but more curious how YOU would have all classes shaped up to once all things are done how you think they should be. Just curiosity for me to see the whole picture and not just pieces here and there in different threads. 

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6 minutes ago, WWFan said:

But you have said no private should be in class A. I'm not here to stir that pot...its a fight I refuse to partake in but more curious how YOU would have all classes shaped up to once all things are done how you think they should be. Just curiosity for me to see the whole picture and not just pieces here and there in different threads. 

I agree with the idea of no PPs in Class A, 100%, regardless of enrollment.

 

I also like Dumfries breakout below

6A1 - 16 teams 

6A2 - 16 teams 

5A - 64 teams

4A - 64 teams 

3A - 64 teams 

2A - 64 teams

1A - 32 teams

I like the SF as is.  

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, HHF said:

I agree with the idea of no PPs in Class A, 100%, regardless of enrollment.

 

I also like Dumfries breakout below

6A1 - 16 teams 

6A2 - 16 teams 

5A - 64 teams

4A - 64 teams 

3A - 64 teams 

2A - 64 teams

1A - 32 teams

I like the SF as is.  

 

 

 

Do all privates get the 1 class bump or just 1A to 2A...rest remain enrollment based?

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1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Is that how they do it?  
 

it would require Indiana to move to a Non “All in” format though.  
 

also if I recall correctly, Illinois has playoff games where teams travel incredible distances just based on seeding.  Definitely not a fan of that.  I think it’s crazy if teams have to travel 3 hours for non state championship games.  Poor Lawrenceburg/ all of SE Indiana gets screwed on this every year 

Yes. 

Illinois selects the 256 teams (32 x 8 ) for its playoff, then determines classes. (P/P have a multiplier as well.) 

Seeding is generally 1-16 in the north and 1-16 in south. But 7&8A are so concentrated by Chicago, they usually don’t bother and do all 1-32. Which results in Metro East schools like Edwardsville and O’Fallon going to Chicago suburbs for 1st round games. 

At least they mandate Saturday games  between 1-7pm for all unless BOTH teams agree to switch. 

I like their playoff format except one major flaw. State championships are NIU. Going to DeKalb isn’t much of a reward for making the finals. 😂 

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2 hours ago, HHF said:

http://www.ossaa.com/Football.aspx

Oklahoma has a similar problem as does Indiana.  It has a small number of schools (Jenks/Union) in Tulsa that dominate the biggest class, same as we do in Indianapolis with our Big 4 (WC/BD/CA/CG)  Indiana has approx twice the population of Oklahoma, so the Class structures make sense.

Oklahoma has 16 schools in the biggest class, and they break it up into 2 Divisions of 8 schools each, by enrollment, with a 3 week tournament

We can and should do the same thing in Indiana, leaving 6A with 32 schools and breaking them into 2 16 school subgroups, with a 4 week tournament  This will create another class tournament and another state champion, and give some very deserving schools an opportunity to win a title.  

...

We would add a 10th regular season game for these schools as they have the depth and resources to take on an additional game.  The 10th game would occur in week 10, week 11 would be a bye week, and the the two 6A tournaments would run weeks 12-15.

The 10th game would be a 32 team open draw where the IHSAA would match 6A1 schools vs 6A2 schools o avoid any potential overlap of tournament games.

We could see some great matchups like Ben Davis vs Merrillville,  Fishers vs Homestead, Noblesville vs Warsaw, etc.

What are your thoughts.    

Oklahoma knows a little about football.  Wouldn't hurt Indiana to follow The Sooner State's lead on this one.  

 

Oklahoma is a district-based alignment like Texas ... no conferences. 

Oklahoma split the 6A class for the first time back in 2014.  Bixby just four-peated as 6A-II champ and has been in the state final all eight seasons that there has been a 6A-II ... having won seven of the eight seasons.  BTW, who is Bixby?  They are the largest team in 6A-II.

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1 hour ago, WWFan said:

Do all privates get the 1 class bump or just 1A to 2A...rest remain enrollment based?

I have not advocated an all one class PP bump in this model.  I dont think it will pass so I took it off the table.  I do feel howver that keeping privates out of 1A is something that not only is the right thing to do, it can actually be agreed upon by all the stakeholders.

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2 hours ago, HHF said:

I have not advocated an all one class PP bump in this model.  I dont think it will pass so I took it off the table.  I do feel howver that keeping privates out of 1A is something that not only is the right thing to do, it can actually be agreed upon by all the stakeholders.

Oklahoma doesn't differentiate in their enrollments including all the way down to the 8-man level.

2 hours ago, HHF said:

 

Comment deleted...yes it was uncalled for. 

Seriously man?  Definitely uncalled for.

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2 hours ago, foxbat said:

Oklahoma doesn't differentiate in their enrollments including all the way down to the 8-man level.

Seriously man?  Definitely uncalled for.

It doesnt matter.  They still have classes to separate schools by size.  

 

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1 hour ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Jeeze...you all are ruining my Festivus

Are you kidding?  GID is the epitome of Festivus all season long ... and apparently it's the gift that keeps giving even after the season. 😀

image.jpeg.a336dd328f2c2f5ba60c13fa3ff9b477.jpeg

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18 hours ago, HHF said:

http://www.ossaa.com/Football.aspx

Oklahoma has a similar problem as does Indiana.  It has a small number of schools (Jenks/Union) in Tulsa that dominate the biggest class, same as we do in Indianapolis with our Big 4 (WC/BD/CA/CG)  Indiana has approx twice the population of Oklahoma, so the Class structures make sense.

Oklahoma has 16 schools in the biggest class, and they break it up into 2 Divisions of 8 schools each, by enrollment, with a 3 week tournament

We can and should do the same thing in Indiana, leaving 6A with 32 schools and breaking them into 2 16 school subgroups, with a 4 week tournament  This will create another class tournament and another state champion, and give some very deserving schools an opportunity to win a title.  

Had we used the 6A1 and 6A2 class setup this year, our tournaments would have looked like this :

Class 6A1

1112 Carmel High School 1,359 1,338 1,267 1,322 5286 AAAAAA 1 2221 Ben Davis High School 1263 1075 1100 1061 4499 AAAAAA 2 3433 Warren Central High School 961 962 960 938 3821 AAAAAA 3 4344 North Central (Indpls.) High School 973 939 872 943 3727 AAAAAA 4 5 7 9 14 Fishers High School 950 887 862 810 3509 AAAAAA 5 6555 Penn High School 840 856 782 860 3338 AAAAAA 6 7866 Lake Central High School 827 850 795 844 3316 AAAAAA 7 8677 Pike High School 909 825 792 769 3295 AAAAAA 8 9988 Hamilton Southeastern HS 827 803 840 803 3273 AAAAAA 9 10 10 10 12 Avon High School 838 770 724 763 3095 AAAAAA 10 11 11 11 10 Noblesville High School 805 744 750 702 3001 AAAAAA 11 12 12 12 11 Crown Point High School 735 704 697 719 2855 AAAAAA 12 13 14 16 18 Brownsburg High School 726 676 693 715 2810 AAAAAA 13 14 13 13 13 Franklin Central High School 759 719 700 626 2804 AAAAAA 14 15 33 44 16 Indpls. Arsenal Technical High Schoo 614 716 696 582 2608 AAAAAA 15 16 17 19 20 Lawrence North High School 702 607 632 655 2596 AAAAAA

Class 6A2

17 16 15 17 Center Grove High School 648 640 630 603 2521 AAAAAA 17 18 18 20 23 Perry Meridian High School 626 619 605 595 2445 AAAAAA 18 19 15 14 9 Portage High School 620 586 621 609 2436 AAAAAA 19 20 19 18 21 Homestead Senior High School 678 580 586 580 2424 AAAAAA 20 21 21 24 28 Carroll (F.W.) High School 597 652 598 565 2412 AAAAAA 21 22 25 34 40 Westfield High School 668 573 563 530 2334 AAAAAA 22 23 20 17 15 Lawrence Central High School 539 565 616 570 2290 AAAAAA 23 24 23 26 26 Southport High School 588 589 559 518 2254 AAAAAA 24 25 22 21 19 Merrillville High Sch 564 527 557 539 2187 AAAAAA 25 26 24 25 25 Warsaw Community HS 548 511 518 526 2103 AAAAAA 26 27 30 33 32 Lafayette Jefferson High School 587 492 546 438 2063 AAAAAA 27 28 31 28 29 Columbus North High School 568 535 470 490 2063 AAAAAA 28 29 28 29 30 Chesterton Senior High School 561 512 509 481 2063 AAAAAA 29 30 36 43 44 Zionsville Community High Sch 553 504 492 506 2055 AAAAAA 30 31 27 27 24 Valparaiso High School 511 477 529 537 2054 AAAAAA 31 62 61 63 68 Elkhart High School

Schools will move up and down between the classes based on enrollment changes and the Success Factor.  CG, with 2 straight state titles, would likely be bumped up into 6A1.  CGs next enrollment number will probably put them in the Top 16 anyway.  Tech will certainly drop out, and LN could as well.  

We would add a 10th regular season game for these schools as they have the depth and resources to take on an additional game.  The 10th game would occur in week 10, week 11 would be a bye week, and the the two 6A tournaments would run weeks 12-15.

The 10th game would be a 32 team open draw where the IHSAA would match 6A1 schools vs 6A2 schools o avoid any potential overlap of tournament games.

We could see some great matchups like Ben Davis vs Merrillville,  Fishers vs Homestead, Noblesville vs Warsaw, etc.

What are your thoughts.    

Oklahoma knows a little about football.  Wouldn't hurt Indiana to follow The Sooner State's lead on this one.  

 

 

Did you copy and paste your topic from 2 years ago?

https://gridirondigest.net/topic/2012-time-to-fix-the-broken-6a-tournament/

The enrollment differential from largest to smallest within classes 2A to 6A I/6A II in Oklahoma are very similar to the differentials in classes 1A to 6A in Indiana.  Oklahoma has fewer schools in most of the classes and some very small schools in Classes A, B, and C.  Other than that, the size of schools is very similar in Oklahoma 2A and Indiana 1A, Oklahoma 6A II and Indiana 5A, Oklahoma 6A I and Indiana 6A, etc.

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2 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

Did you copy and paste your topic from 2 years ago?

https://gridirondigest.net/topic/2012-time-to-fix-the-broken-6a-tournament/

The enrollment differential from largest to smallest within classes 2A to 6A I/6A II in Oklahoma are very similar to the differentials in classes 1A to 6A in Indiana.  Oklahoma has fewer schools in most of the classes and some very small schools in Classes A, B, and C.  Other than that, the size of schools is very similar in Oklahoma 2A and Indiana 1A, Oklahoma 6A II and Indiana 5A, Oklahoma 6A I and Indiana 6A, etc.

As usual Im way ahead of the curve   This is for the newbies

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5 hours ago, Donnie Baker said:

Comparing playoff systems to states that have more tumbleweeds than schools is kinda dumb and I’ll say it right to your face! 

Comparing your MOM Phyllis to anyone's MOM is kinda dumb, and I'll say that right to YOUR FACE!   

Deal with the topic at hand, and "focus"...it's entirely possible that OK has legitimate alternative to that which others have espoused right here in Indiana!  

All jokes, aside......

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