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Lets follow the Oklahoma Model / Split 6A in 6A1 and 6A2


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2 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Comparing your MOM Phyllis to anyone's MOM is kinda dumb, and I'll say that right to YOUR FACE!   

Deal with the topic at hand, and "focus"...it's entirely possible that OK has legitimate alternative to that which others have espoused right here in Indiana!  

All jokes, aside......

You can leave my mom Phyllis out of it Yuckas. And I’m as focused as you are at a Chip and Dales show. 2nd and foremost my point is comparing our playoff system to states that have schools spread out so far is almost more dumber than your comment. I gotta go 

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20 hours ago, Grover said:

Freaking legend.

More like a character.  But that's ok also.

Still the OK thing is something that should be looked at and potentially considered (if there's a ground-swell) to separate the MEGA-6A from those below a demarcation line for other 6A schools.  

IMO, the 'demarcation line' has less to do with school population;   Than the ability to seek better competition that makes those beyond the "donut" competitive in 6A as it exists currently.    

 

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55 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

More like a character.  But that's ok also.

Still the OK thing is something that should be looked at and potentially considered (if there's a ground-swell) to separate the MEGA-6A from those below a demarcation line for other 6A schools.  

IMO, the 'demarcation line' has less to do with school population;   Than the ability to seek better competition that makes those beyond the "donut" competitive in 6A as it exists currently.    

 

Definitely a character but a legend as well. I swear to God I am. Several years ago after the last crash and we all had to redo our accounts I decided to come back with a different approach. One was to have fun with it. 2nd (and foremost!) was to not take it too serious but still provide a little insight along with an attempt at humor. Some like it, some don’t and I’m fine either way. As far as 6A goes, does the bottom half really want another split? It’s going to be same 4-6 teams 90% of the time. Oh. I gotta go 

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42 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

Definitely a character but a legend as well. I swear to God I am. Several years ago after the last crash and we all had to redo our accounts I decided to come back with a different approach. One was to have fun with it. 2nd (and foremost!) was to not take it too serious but still provide a little insight along with an attempt at humor. Some like it, some don’t and I’m fine either way. As far as 6A goes, does the bottom half really want another split? It’s going to be same 4-6 teams 90% of the time. Oh. I gotta go 

He doesn't get it.  I swear to God he doesn't.  

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53 minutes ago, HHF said:

He doesn't get it.  I swear to God he doesn't.  

Just curious as to what it is that he's not getting?  And please, something other than "common sense" or "if you can't see it ..." 

The last decade, the following teams have made it to LOS in 6A:

  • Carmel
  • Penn
  • Snider
  • Warren Central
  • Ben Davis
  • Center Grove
  • Westfield
  • Lawrence Central

Using a Division I / Division II split:

  • Carmel - Div I
  • Penn - Div I
  • Snider - Div II, but now 5A
  • Warren Central - Div I
  • Ben Davis - Div I
  • Center Grove - Div II
  • Westfield - Div II
  • Lawrence Central - Div II

Toss in Zionsville moving up to 6A as well as likely Cathedral on SF ... both of which would be Div II ... and I bet you are likely to see something like Center Grove, Westfield,  Zionsville, Cathedral, and perhaps Lawrence Central doing the rotation in Div II on a regular basis.  Of course the one thing that will likely grow is the number of post-season threads as there will be a least "plus one" discussing how Cathedral is unfairly "slumming" in 6A Div II.  Also, the discussion of Center Grove's demise is likely to be less-accelerated if they don't have to worry about navigating Lawrence North, Warren Central, North Central, Ben Davis, Carmel, or Brownsburg in post-season.  Similarly, Westfield has an easier post-season not having to navigate Hamilton Southeastern, Penn, and Fishers.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

More like a character.  But that's ok also.

Still the OK thing is something that should be looked at and potentially considered (if there's a ground-swell) to separate the MEGA-6A from those below a demarcation line for other 6A schools.  

IMO, the 'demarcation line' has less to do with school population;   Than the ability to seek better competition that makes those beyond the "donut" competitive in 6A as it exists currently.    

 

I like the DB character and this poster does a great job of mimicking him. 
 

I’m all ears regarding potential changes but have no interest in a 16 team class. Besides there aren’t 16 mega schools in my opinion. Not sure what you do about the non-Indy teams’ inability to compete but eliminating the competition is not a solution I can support. 

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3 hours ago, foxbat said:

Just curious as to what it is that he's not getting?  And please, something other than "common sense" or "if you can't see it ..." 

The last decade, the following teams have made it to LOS in 6A:

  • Carmel
  • Penn
  • Snider
  • Warren Central
  • Ben Davis
  • Center Grove
  • Westfield
  • Lawrence Central

Using a Division I / Division II split:

  • Carmel - Div I
  • Penn - Div I
  • Snider - Div II, but now 5A
  • Warren Central - Div I
  • Ben Davis - Div I
  • Center Grove - Div II
  • Westfield - Div II
  • Lawrence Central - Div II

Toss in Zionsville moving up to 6A as well as likely Cathedral on SF ... both of which would be Div II ... and I bet you are likely to see something like Center Grove, Westfield,  Zionsville, Cathedral, and perhaps Lawrence Central doing the rotation in Div II on a regular basis.  Of course the one thing that will likely grow is the number of post-season threads as there will be a least "plus one" discussing how Cathedral is unfairly "slumming" in 6A Div II.  Also, the discussion of Center Grove's demise is likely to be less-accelerated if they don't have to worry about navigating Lawrence North, Warren Central, North Central, Ben Davis, Carmel, or Brownsburg in post-season.  Similarly, Westfield has an easier post-season not having to navigate Hamilton Southeastern, Penn, and Fishers.

 

 

When I was watching the state finals, CGs enrollment was listed at 2850.  I was shocked that it was that high as they have been in the 2400-2600 range for several years.  Assuming the 2850 is correct, CG will be firmly in 6A1 going forward.  

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1 hour ago, Grover said:

I like the DB character and this poster does a great job of mimicking him. 
 

I’m all ears regarding potential changes but have no interest in a 16 team class. Besides there aren’t 16 mega schools in my opinion. Not sure what you do about the non-Indy teams’ inability to compete but eliminating the competition is not a solution I can support. 

When the IHSAA created the 6th class, there were 4 schools with 3000 plus enrollment :

Carmel

Ben Davis

North Central

Warren Central

Today, there are 11 schools with plus 3000 enrollment 

HSE

Fishers

Noblesville

Penn

Lake Central

Avon

Pike

 

 

Crown Point, Franklin Central, Brownsburg, Elkhart  and Center Grove are all within 200 students of breaking 3000.

So, theoretically, you have "16" mega schools, using 3000 as the "mega" cutoff.  There is your 6A1 class 

 

 

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It's understandable that so much focus is on enrollment. It's the simplest and cleanest way to class schools, and football is the most numbers-dependent sport. Focusing on enrollments in 6A is a waste of time. Those schools all have enough material to compete. They fall short elsewhere. 

 

15 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

IMO, the 'demarcation line' has less to do with school population;   Than the ability to seek better competition that makes those beyond the "donut" competitive in 6A as it exists currently. 

This should be so obvious by now it hurts. We don't even have to look that hard for good examples. How about we take two weeks of Merrillville's 2021 season? Merrillville (2187) 39 - Penn (3338) 7. Westfield (2334) 48 - Merrillville (2187) 19. I'm just using the IHSAA numbers, but Penn's enrollment is actually more like 3800 if that helps any.

 

11 hours ago, Grover said:

I’m all ears regarding potential changes but have no interest in a 16 team class. Besides there aren’t 16 mega schools in my opinion. Not sure what you do about the non-Indy teams’ inability to compete but eliminating the competition is not a solution I can support.

With you here for sure. Diluting 6A is definitely not a solution to any problem, if one exists. This would be akin to class basketball in my opinion. The Indy area football programs have traditionally dominated the largest class, and, to some degree, the second largest class in football. Creating an additional class does nothing to change that. Large schools outside of Indy are disadvantaged because of their competitive environments, but that doesn't necessitate the creation of an additional class to give them the chance at a state championship they "deserve". 

 

9 hours ago, HHF said:

When the IHSAA created the 6th class, there were 4 schools with 3000 plus enrollment :

Carmel

Ben Davis

North Central

Warren Central

There were at least five. Penn has had 3000+ students for two decades, and a lot of good that's done them in that time.

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21 hours ago, PDB26 said:

It's understandable that so much focus is on enrollment. It's the simplest and cleanest way to class schools, and football is the most numbers-dependent sport. Focusing on enrollments in 6A is a waste of time. Those schools all have enough material to compete. They fall short elsewhere. 

 

This should be so obvious by now it hurts. We don't even have to look that hard for good examples. How about we take two weeks of Merrillville's 2021 season? Merrillville (2187) 39 - Penn (3338) 7. Westfield (2334) 48 - Merrillville (2187) 19. I'm just using the IHSAA numbers, but Penn's enrollment is actually more like 3800 if that helps any.

 

With you here for sure. Diluting 6A is definitely not a solution to any problem, if one exists. This would be akin to class basketball in my opinion. The Indy area football programs have traditionally dominated the largest class, and, to some degree, the second largest class in football. Creating an additional class does nothing to change that. Large schools outside of Indy are disadvantaged because of their competitive environments, but that doesn't necessitate the creation of an additional class to give them the chance at a state championship they "deserve". 

 

There were at least five. Penn has had 3000+ students for two decades, and a lot of good that's done them in that time.

Where do they fall short?

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On 12/28/2021 at 11:01 PM, Grover said:

I like the DB character and this poster does a great job of mimicking him. 
 

I’m all ears regarding potential changes but have no interest in a 16 team class. Besides there aren’t 16 mega schools in my opinion. Not sure what you do about the non-Indy teams’ inability to compete but eliminating the competition is not a solution I can support. 

Thanks Grovers. Your point is also what I was trying to say. How far do we go to make it “fair “ for the big schools. 

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I'm curious how other states "make it fair".   

I know this isn't the most reliable state but Indy metro is 2.1 million.  Next biggest is Fort Wayne at 418,00

Illinois is worse with Chicago at 9.6 million.  Next biggest is Peoria at 400,000.

I bet there are other states that have bigger gaps.

I know Chicago had it's "Chicago Bowl' to determine city champ years back.

I don't think you could ever make the tournament fair, no matter what you do.

I just think there are some schools who aren't very committed to football and never will be.

 

 

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2 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

I'm curious how other states "make it fair".   

I know this isn't the most reliable state but Indy metro is 2.1 million.  Next biggest is Fort Wayne at 418,00

Illinois is worse with Chicago at 9.6 million.  Next biggest is Peoria at 400,000.

I bet there are other states that have bigger gaps.

I know Chicago had it's "Chicago Bowl' to determine city champ years back.

I don't think you could ever make the tournament fair, no matter what you do.

I just think there are some schools who aren't very committed to football and never will be.

 

 

Wait, what?  Chicago has 9.6 million people???

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22 minutes ago, DE said:

😂. Nope. Wheatfield. 

Wheatland? My cousin got an OWI in the Satin Lady parking lot back in the day. I think it was the B-team that morning, if my memory serves. I'm surprised we never crossed paths... Cold beer though. Usually. 

Kidding aside, the second and third sentences are absolutely true. Unfortunately.

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

My sister lives in Wheatfield

Upgraded from Day-Mo-Tay

 

lol

55 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Jasper County is within the Chicago Metro area.

When I drive a minute to work, Hebron feels like a road trip.😂

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1 hour ago, Esso Ayche said:

Wheatland? My cousin got an OWI in the Satin Lady parking lot back in the day. I think it was the B-team that morning, if my memory serves. I'm surprised we never crossed paths... Cold beer though. Usually. 

Kidding aside, the second and third sentences are absolutely true. Unfortunately.

Nope. Wheatfield. It is in northern Jasper County (NW part of the state). 

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