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SAC going to 2 divisions


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2 hours ago, Esso Ayche said:

Top Ten Ways to Determine an SAC Champion:

1. Flip a coin.

2. Cut a deck of cards.

3. Dramatically draw a name written on beechwood bark from a bowler's hat at dawn.

4. Placekicking shootout, opposite foot.

5. First team to call dibs.

6. Give it to the fifth place team on even years, seventh place team odd years.  Except leap years, then it is paper-rock-scissors between fourth and sixth.

7. Top 40 time by the starting left tackle of the respective teams.

8. Mascot fisticuffs. To the death.

9. Each team plants a tree.  In ten years time, the team whose tree has grown tallest wins.

10. The equipment managers of the top two teams appeal their cases to other conference teams (and anyone else nearby) in 10 words or less. None of the ten words may include the letter ‘E’.

 

 

I was going to say Thunderdome, but I see you have that covered in #8.

For the undercard, you should get the most obnoxious fan on each team who always tells the refs how wrong their calls are to fight to the death and the winner gets to be a guest commentator at the 6A state championship game at LOS.

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I would love to see the SIAC go to this model in football, but I will be surprised if it ever happened. Based on enrollment, the divisions would be:

Biggie

Castle (5A - 1965)

North (5A - 1684)

Reitz (4A - 1378)

Harrison (4A - 1250)

Central (4A - 1165)

Smalls

Jasper (4A - 1105)

Bosse (3A - 800)

Lincoln (3A - 735)

Memorial (4A - 609)

Mater Dei (2A - 497)

  

 

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East-West or North-South, I am all for a position crossover night. If you are big/small then I don’t see the point.

The division of big-small is made so the #4 and #5 small wouldn’t have to play the big boys unless they want to. Presumably the competitive smalls like Concordia and Luers will already schedule some of those games anyway. 

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54 minutes ago, tango said:

I would love to see the SIAC go to this model in football, but I will be surprised if it ever happened. Based on enrollment, the divisions would be:

Biggie

Castle (5A - 1965)

North (5A - 1684)

Reitz (4A - 1378)

Harrison (4A - 1250)

Central (4A - 1165)

Smalls

Jasper (4A - 1105)

Bosse (3A - 800)

Lincoln (3A - 735)

Memorial (4A - 609)

Mater Dei (2A - 497)

  

 

please.  
 

would be nice if GS didn’t have to travel to New Albany/Bowling Green/Columbus for the tough matchups they have been seeking out of conference.  
 

Mater Dei and Memorial would be huge games for the area and a good measuring stick for everyone. 
 

castle/North would be fun ones for GS to schedule too

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

Divisional champion is equal to conference champion in the WIC setup.  Go tell Chuck Sorrell at South Putnam that his team did not technically win a championship this year.

 

Why do you think I’m arguing with you for some reason? Where did I even try to discredit the WIC…I don’t even know what the WIC stands for or where any of those teams are even located lol 

 

calm down buddy 

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1 hour ago, tango said:

I would love to see the SIAC go to this model in football, but I will be surprised if it ever happened. Based on enrollment, the divisions would be:

Biggie

Castle (5A - 1965)

North (5A - 1684)

Reitz (4A - 1378)

Harrison (4A - 1250)

Central (4A - 1165)

Smalls

Jasper (4A - 1105)

Bosse (3A - 800)

Lincoln (3A - 735)

Memorial (4A - 609)

Mater Dei (2A - 497)

  

 

I agree, would be interesting if the SIAC switched to divisions, although setting up the divisions might be fun discussion. And of course possibly an conference championship game and champions week

Edited by TigerFan20
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16 hours ago, BTF said:

The real heroes of high school football are the players and coaches who put hours and hours of effort into this great sport. But let's not discount the voice of the fans, the ones who pump money into the athletic departments. And at the end of the day, football IS a team sport........coaches, players, and fans. The twelfth man is kind of important. It would be foolish of any league or athletic depart to not listen to the voice of the very fans who support them. Maybe the idea of a two division format originated on the GID and maybe it didn't. But you know what? Who cares. It's gained momentum. Congrats to the coaches and athletic directors for bringing this close to reality. 

Just for a little historical perspective, the idea originated with the SAC when the league started. From 1973 to 1979, the two division champions would play foe the conference title.

http://www.almanacsports.com/football/conference.php?conf_id=summit

The Fort Wayne City Series, the SAC’s predecessor, has one in 1971 and 1972 as well.

Cool move though that could create some intriguing matchups. 

Rudy

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46 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Why do you think I’m arguing with you for some reason? Where did I even try to discredit the WIC…I don’t even know what the WIC stands for or where any of those teams are even located lol 

 

calm down buddy 

WIC is Western Indiana Conference.  Think east of Terre Haute and you will be in the general area.  Its a very strong and underrated football hotbed in Indiana.  The fan bases there are very strong at Owen Valley, Sullivan, Greencastle, South Putnam and others.  

This is the area that runs its own Wabash River Valley Football All Star Classic in June, 3 weeks before the IFCA event in Indianapolis.  You will rarely see state champion come out of rhis area but they are big football fans and love their schools and their teams.  

There is talk that Terre Haute may add a third school and remodel and downsize TH North and South, basically making them all 3A or 4A schools.  They would likely then join the WIC and the conference would expand to 14 schools, with 7 in the Big (Gold) division and 7 (Green) in the small division.

Probably something like this 

Terre Haute North   4A

Terre Haute South 4A

Northview            4A

Edgewood          3A

Sullivan               3A

Owen Valley       3A

New Terre Haute  3A

 

Brown County   3A

Indian Creek    3A

West Vigo       3A

Cloverdale    1A

N Putnam    2A

S Putnam    1A

Greencastle   3A

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rudy said:

Just for a little historical perspective, the idea originated with the SAC when the league started. From 1973 to 1979, the two division champions would play foe the conference title.

http://www.almanacsports.com/football/conference.php?conf_id=summit

The Fort Wayne City Series, the SAC’s predecessor, has one in 1971 and 1972 as well.

Cool move though that could create some intriguing matchups. 

Rudy

When divisions are geographical, championship games/weeks make sense...not always so much when the divisions are Big School, Small School.

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

WIC is Western Indiana Conference.  Think east of Terre Haute and you will be in the general area.  Its a very strong and underrated football hotbed in Indiana.  The fan bases there are very strong at Owen Valley, Sullivan, Greencastle, South Putnam and others.  

This is the area that runs its own Wabash River Valley Football All Star Classic in June, 3 weeks before the IFCA event in Indianapolis.  You will rarely see state champion come out of rhis area but they are big football fans and love their schools and their teams.  

There is talk that Terre Haute may add a third school and remodel and downsize TH North and South, basically making them all 3A or 4A schools.  They would likely then join the WIC and the conference would expand to 14 schools, with 7 in the Big (Gold) division and 7 (Green) in the small division.

Probably something like this 

Terre Haute North   4A

Terre Haute South 4A

Northview            4A

Edgewood          3A

Sullivan               3A

Owen Valley       3A

New Terre Haute  3A

 

Brown County   3A

Indian Creek    3A

West Vigo       3A

Cloverdale    1A

N Putnam    2A

S Putnam    1A

Greencastle   3A

 

 

Why wouldn't Terre Haute just consolidate a la Elkhart? 

Edited by Footballking16
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36 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Why wouldn't Terre Haute just consolidate a la Elkhart? 

This recent article gives a complete overview of the situation.  They dont want a mega school where they will have to travel all over the state to findn6A competition.  They prefer to downsize and stay local in west central Indiana.  Sounds like a good choice 

https://www.tribstar.com/news/vcsc-superintendent-narrows-high-school-options-to-new-construction-renovation/article_31f815fc-675a-11ec-964d-2fa0cdf90db9.html

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49 minutes ago, HHF said:

This recent article gives a complete overview of the situation.  They dont want a mega school where they will have to travel all over the state to findn6A competition.  They prefer to downsize and stay local in west central Indiana.  Sounds like a good choice 

https://www.tribstar.com/news/vcsc-superintendent-narrows-high-school-options-to-new-construction-renovation/article_31f815fc-675a-11ec-964d-2fa0cdf90db9.html

This summarizes the options in the article nicely:

 

The three options as proposed by the school corporation in a news release are:

  • Option 1
    • New academic spaces at North, South and West Vigo High Schools
    • Renovated co-curricular spaces at North, South and West
    • $160 million referendum for new spaces
    • $100 million for renovation projects over time
    • An additional $0.0865 tax impact over rate
  • Option 2
    • New academic spaces at North, South and West Vigo High Schools
    • Renovated co-curricular spaces at North, South and West
    • $260 million referendum for new spaces and renovation projects at one time
    • Additional $0.2484 tax impact over current rate
  • Option 3
    • New construction on current sites at North, South and West Vigo High Schools
    • $333 million referendum for new schools
    • Additional $0.3604 tax impact over current rate
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21 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

This summarizes the options in the article nicely:

 

The three options as proposed by the school corporation in a news release are:

  • Option 1
    • New academic spaces at North, South and West Vigo High Schools
    • Renovated co-curricular spaces at North, South and West
    • $160 million referendum for new spaces
    • $100 million for renovation projects over time
    • An additional $0.0865 tax impact over rate
  • Option 2
    • New academic spaces at North, South and West Vigo High Schools
    • Renovated co-curricular spaces at North, South and West
    • $260 million referendum for new spaces and renovation projects at one time
    • Additional $0.2484 tax impact over current rate
  • Option 3
    • New construction on current sites at North, South and West Vigo High Schools
    • $333 million referendum for new schools
    • Additional $0.3604 tax impact over current rate

Bottom line, enrollment is in steep decline.  THS and THN opened in the early 70s.  Schools are old and outdated.  

THN and THS will likely be very close to the 4A/5A cutoff off  of approx 1450 students when the new enrollment numbers are released.  West Vigo is approx 600 in enrollment.  Assume approx 3500 in the 3 schools, 1100 to 1200 per school.  

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5 hours ago, tango said:

I would love to see the SIAC go to this model in football, but I will be surprised if it ever happened. Based on enrollment, the divisions would be:

Biggie

Castle (5A - 1965)

North (5A - 1684)

Reitz (4A - 1378)

Harrison (4A - 1250)

Central (4A - 1165)

Smalls

Jasper (4A - 1105)

Bosse (3A - 800)

Lincoln (3A - 735)

Memorial (4A - 609)

Mater Dei (2A - 497)

  

 

Go to 12 schools .  Move Jasper to the big division and invite Boonville and Gibson Southern to the small division.

 

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37 minutes ago, HHF said:

Go to 12 schools .  Move Jasper to the big division and invite Boonville and Gibson Southern to the small division.

 

Both would be good additions IMO, but Boonville isn't having any of it. 

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49 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

My Vernon would be more open than Boonville.

MV is 3A and Boonville is 4A.  BV is the better fit.  They will have to go thru a period of competitive adjustment, just like VL is doing now.  The VL people feel that under Coach Salters they will be competitive in due time.  Why shouldnt we expect the same of Boonville?  Didnt they have the states top RB last year?

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12 minutes ago, HHF said:

MV is 3A and Boonville is 4A.  BV is the better fit.  They will have to go thru a period of competitive adjustment, just like VL is doing now.  The VL people feel that under Coach Salters they will be competitive in due time.  Why shouldnt we expect the same of Boonville?  Didnt they have the states top RB last year?

You will have to ask someone from those programs why they wouldn’t be open to such an arrangement…I’m just making an educated guess based on recent behavior on who would be open to what.

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On 1/6/2022 at 4:44 PM, HHF said:

Congratulations to BTF and all the other posters who have been pushing for this move for years.

Once again, The Gridiron Digest has helped push the needle and impact policy change for the betterment of the game.  We have influenced everything from class changes, to the success factor, the mercy rule, conference realignment, intersectional matchups, and contraction.

Tim Adams would be very proud today of the influential on line community that he created.

Nice work GID Members.  You DO indeed have a voice, it is heard at every level of football in Indiana, and it has an impact.

 

Thank you !!

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11 hours ago, Titan32 said:

You will have to ask someone from those programs why they wouldn’t be open to such an arrangement…I’m just making an educated guess based on recent behavior on who would be open to what.

In addition, you might want to swap Memorial and Harrison due the the P&Ps vs Public differentiation with regard to percentage of athletes per enrollment. Most years GS and Mater Dei would be more similar in athletes per total enrollment and Memorial would be more similar to Castle.  Enrollment alone is a horrible way to classify Big and Small.  For that reason, it will be impossible to gain a consensus on what the divisions would look like, as no one would ever agree on how to split it up.   If the SIAC ever did a divisional split it is more likely that the only option that would be accepted would be a geographical one.

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40 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

If the SIAC ever did a divisional split it is more likely that the only option that would be accepted would be a geographical one.

I’ve thought about this one too

West: 

Vincennes Lincoln

Reitz

Mater Dei

Central 

North

East: 

Jasper

Castle

Memorial

Bosse 

Harrison

Could West/East work? I have no idea. I also agree about the whole SIAC not having an consensus for divisions, they could schedule it like the Big Ten, but who knows

Edited by TigerFan20
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41 minutes ago, TigerFan20 said:

I’ve thought about this one too

West: 

Vincennes Lincoln

Reitz

Mater Dei

Central 

North

East: 

Jasper

Castle

Memorial

Bosse 

Harrison

Could West/East work? I have no idea. I also agree about the whole SIAC not having an consensus for divisions, they could schedule it like the Big Ten, but who knows

If I’m all powerful, I swap GS for VL and use those divisions.

I could also be talked into adding GS and MV to the west and moving VL to east with traditional rival Jasper. 

Boonville frankly doesn’t want any part of the SIAC, of their own admission. 

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