DTs Dandy Dozen - Hopes and Expectations for the Future

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Yes, but outside of Missouri, they are aligned by geography, not by anything that the SEC has intentionally done.  Going to the B12 model of a title game without divisions would be more in line with taking steps to insure what you are suggesting.  In reality, there's a better parity geographically in the SEC than there is in the B10.

It'd be nice to have two B10 schools in consideration, but let's be realistic here, I think the B10 would be happy to, consistently, have one team in that top 4 where the expectation before the games start is that the B10 school WILL be in the final game.

Right but the B10 does have that issue where there isn't geographical parity. They need to fix it to ensure better playoff visibility. Penn State and Ohio State won the B10 title game back to back years in 2016 and 2017 and didn't get playoff invitations. They're stacking the deck against themselves when 3/4 best teams in the conference can't play for the title in any given year. 

[BTF]

4 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

That state university just pulled in its best recruiting class of all-time despite going 2-10 and finished in the top 20 nationally. Painting a picture that Indiana is pulling in 2 and 3 star recruits from Florida isn't accurate at all. Indiana is pulling in multiple 4 stars from Florida who all had legitimate SEC offers. I'd rather Indiana University put the best possible talent on the field regardless of home town. You've been a proponent for years that recruiting rankings and stars are the end be all in college football and now that Indiana is finally starting to recruit at a high level you want them to change? What gives?

It's a shame IU didn't make a push for Jessie Bates. He took the only Power Five offer given to him and ended up at Wake Forest. Now he is ranked as the 5th best defensive back in the NFL and playing for a Super Bowl ring. . I'm with DT on this one. More focus on the State of Indiana. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

If I am being complete honest and realistic here, your argument would have a stronger hold IF the Tigers were already the "tallest midget" in the NLC, yet consistently falling short in the state tournament. That is not the case. In the last 3 decades, Warsaw has 3 outright NLC football championships ('90, '00, '01) and 3 shared NLC football championships ('92, '99, '20).

6 conference championships over 30 years makes you far from the tallest midget. As well, their postseason history over that 30 year period only includes 9 Sectional Championship appearances (including last year's where they had the "luck" of a double-bye into the game) with only 1 Sectional title ('19).

IF Warsaw was dominating the NLC year in and year out and consistently making it to a Regional or Semi-State level in the tournament, only to fall short, I would give your suggestion of the Tigers needing to make a conference change more credence. However, that is not the case currently. Adding regular games against Carroll, Homestead, Snider and Dwenger would be mildly more of an improvement over the current schedule. I do not believe it would truly add that much value.

Last year's Sagarin ratings as comparison between those 4 teams and the top 4 NLC teams (excluding Warsaw)

84.43 - Carroll
71.18 - Homestead
69.09 - Snider
67.32 - Dwenger
73.01 - AVERAGE

78.38 - Mishawaka
72.38 - Concord
65.77 - Northridge
59.06 - NorthWood
68.90 - AVERAGE
 

Taking a more statewide POV on WCHS football, there are two eras.

Pre Bart

Post Bart

The Pre Bart era measured itself against local peers.

The Post Bart period measures itself against statewide peers. 

 

[Footballking16]

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

It's a shame IU didn't make a push for Jessie Bates. He took the only Power Five offer given to him and ended up at Wake Forest. Now he is ranked as the 5th best defensive back in the NFL and playing for a Super Bowl ring. . I'm with DT on this one. More focus on the State of Indiana. 

They signed 3 of the top 10 prospects in the state this year, two of them 4 stars. The in-state 4 stars that Indiana has recently signed have all been massive busts and either can't get on the field or have transferred out to lesser programs. Reality is that IU isn't going to beat out Ohio State, Notre Dame, and Michigan for the top in-state kids. IU did everything in their power to try and lure Curry. They offered Craig and Tanona who ended up at Notre Dame. Can you blame them? 

I watched for years as Cam Cameron and Gerry DiNardo recruited in-state kids who had no business playing in the B10. Indiana has undoubtedly evolved into a football state but the talent between Indiana and neighboring stats like Ohio and Michigan is night and day. Indiana won't survive as a football program relying on in-state talent. This shouldn't come as a shock to anybody. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Footballking16

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Right but the B10 does have that issue where there isn't geographical parity. They need to fix it to ensure better playoff visibility. Penn State and Ohio State won the B10 title game back to back years in 2016 and 2017 and didn't get playoff invitations. They're stacking the deck against themselves when 3/4 best teams in the conference can't play for the title in any given year. 

The Big Ten does have geographic parity, if you use a North-South model:

North : NE/IA/MN/WI/UM/MSU/NW

South :IL/PU/IN/OSU/PSU/RUT/MD

 

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, HHF said:

The Big Ten does have geographic parity, if you use a North-South model:

North : NE/IA/MN/WI/UM/MSU/NW

South :IL/PU/IN/OSU/PSU/RUT/MD

 

I don't care what they call it going forward. Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, and Michigan State don't need to be in the same division. It's blown up in their face on multiple occasions since the they've gone the playoff route. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I don't care what they call it going forward. Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, and Michigan State don't need to be in the same division. It's blown up in their face on multiple occasions since the they've gone the playoff route. 

North-South fixes that and creates much better overall balance.  

[NLCTigerFan07]

16 minutes ago, HHF said:

Taking a more statewide POV on WCHS football, there are two eras.

Pre Bart

Post Bart

The Pre Bart era measured itself against local peers.

The Post Bart period measures itself against statewide peers. 

Sure, but I believe if you cannot measure "taller" than your local peers consistently, what is the point of trying to measure against statewide peers? Warsaw is getting there on the NLC front, going 22-6 in conference play during Coach Bart's 4 seasons, as good of a 4 year stretch in conference play outside of '99-'02 when they went 23-3.

So after 4 seasons of measuring themselves against local peers, they have also taken the addiitonal step up in non-conference play during Coach Bart's tenure, adding Michigan City 3 years ago, Dublin Coffman last year, and now this upcoming year Chesterton. In future years, the Warren Central Warriors are on the docket, and very likely matchups against other top DAC and SAC teams coming soon. I truly do not believe any of theses additions would have happened in the Pre Bart era.

Arguing that the Tigers need to move to the SAC to "measure itself against statewide peers" is a lazy point IMO. What the Tigers are doing in their non-conference schedule, along with facing quality conference opponents in Mishawaka, Concord, Northridge and NorthWood each year. Again, I won't argue that facing Carroll, Homestead, Snider and Dwenger over each of those 4 teams wouldn't be a "step up", but I truly do not believe it is THAT much of a step up. For every downtrodden NLC team there is (Wawasee, Goshen, Plymouth)... the SAC has just as well (South Side, Wayne, Concorida, North Side.

Now IF the Tigers somehow start dominating their non-conference and NLC schedule over the next few years AND continue to fail advancing in the post-season tournament... I'll give the idea of a conference shift more merit. But at this time, it is just one of your many rehashed topics. Unlike others though, I have no issue continuing to converse with you over it.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Sure, but I believe if you cannot measure "taller" than your local peers consistently, what is the point of trying to measure against statewide peers? Warsaw is getting there on the NLC front, going 22-6 in conference play during Coach Bart's 4 seasons, as good of a 4 year stretch in conference play outside of '99-'02 when they went 23-3.

So after 4 seasons of measuring themselves against local peers, they have also taken the addiitonal step up in non-conference play during Coach Bart's tenure, adding Michigan City 3 years ago, Dublin Coffman last year, and now this upcoming year Chesterton. In future years, the Warren Central Warriors are on the docket, and very likely matchups against other top DAC and SAC teams coming soon. I truly do not believe any of theses additions would have happened in the Pre Bart era.

Arguing that the Tigers need to move to the SAC to "measure itself against statewide peers" is a lazy point IMO. What the Tigers are doing in their non-conference schedule, along with facing quality conference opponents in Mishawaka, Concord, Northridge and NorthWood each year. Again, I won't argue that facing Carroll, Homestead, Snider and Dwenger over each of those 4 teams wouldn't be a "step up", but I truly do not believe it is THAT much of a step up. For every downtrodden NLC team there is (Wawasee, Goshen, Plymouth)... the SAC has just as well (South Side, Wayne, Concorida, North Side.

Now IF the Tigers somehow start dominating their non-conference and NLC schedule over the next few years AND continue to fail advancing in the post-season tournament... I'll give the idea of a conference shift more merit. But at this time, it is just one of your many rehashed topics. Unlike others though, I have no issue continuing to converse with you over it.

We will have to do it at The HHF.  Im not here anymore.

Just now, HHF said:

We will have to do it at The HHF.  Im not here anymore.

 

[NLCTigerFan07]

9 minutes ago, HHF said:

We will have to do it at The HHF.  Im not here anymore.

And unfortunately - I do not engage on Facebook much anymore these days. I'll keep my fingers crossed you continue to show up here! Best of luck on Facebook.

[oldtimeqb]

14 hours ago, HHF said:

3. While no expert on Southern Indiana football, as I have been told on several occasions, Im hopeful that Vincennes makes a smooth exit from The SIAC and lands either in The WIC or the The PAC, whichever they feel is best for them.  I also feel independence fits this school well, given its location, historical relevance and reputation, and competitive profile.  

5. One of the things I enjoy the most about how we do things in Indiana is our focus on the conference and how important it is in the overall scheme of things.  Conferences don't mean much in Ohio, Kentucky, Michigan and Illinois.  Here in Indiana, they are everything.  Can you imagine a world where we would do away with conferences and go to a district model where everything was focused on playoff positioning?  Nearly every coach we have interviewed has posted the conference championship as his team’s primary goal.  Truth is , 10 to 15% of Indiana high school football programs are state title contenders.  The other 85% are playing for a conference championship.  Hopefully that will never change in our state.

 

I think the PAC is where VL ultimately ends up.  But I could see a nice little football-only conference with VL, Linton, and some of the WIC schools.  It would make for some good matchups on the gridiron but wouldn't require other sports to travel.  I think that is where VL is stuck right now.  I just can't imagine sending a girls volleyball team from VL to Brown County (WIC) or Tell City (PAC) on a school night seems like a good idea.  But they could make for some good football as an independent.  

[BTF]

1 hour ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

For every downtrodden NLC team there is (Wawasee, Goshen, Plymouth)... the SAC has just as well (South Side, Wayne, Concorida, North Side.

Not sure I'd label Concordia as downtrodden since they recently won a state championship and almost beat one of Indy's best in 2020. Wayne has been up and down for four decades. Look for them to uptrend with Haydock at the helm. North Side wasted Snider in 2020.........Snider wasted Concordia.........Concordia almost beat Chatard. In other words, downtrodden really isn't the word for North Side either. The Legends (almost said Redskins) are up and down like a yoyo, but most years are good enough to give the big dogs all they can handle. 

Anyway, good debate on this topic between you and HHF. Both bring good points to the table. 

[gonzoron]

1 hour ago, HHF said:

Im not here anymore.

 

[Impartial_Observer]

I’m sorry, I can’t get past #1. I think you’re mind is slipping a little in your retirement. I seem to remember things being a bit more heated back in the day of The Horde. And you bringing up your nostalgic memory of TA is laughable. He is the guy who banned you from this forum for doing the same shit you’re doing right now. You’re here because the GID has the fan base you need. The bottom line is you don’t have whatever it takes to accomplish whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish. 
 

I believe you have some insight, knowledge, and could be a contributor for HS Football in the state of Indiana. It’s the disingenuous ego driven manner in which you do it that rubs people wrong. The post is a prime example, once I read the first item, most of the rest of it is dismissed based on the fact the first paragraph is total BS.   

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I’m sorry, I can’t get past #1. I think you’re mind is slipping a little in your retirement. I seem to remember things being a bit more heated back in the day of The Horde. And you bringing up your nostalgic memory of TA is laughable. He is the guy who banned you from this forum for doing the same shit you’re doing right now. You’re here because the GID has the fan base you need. The bottom line is you don’t have whatever it takes to accomplish whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish. 
 

I believe you have some insight, knowledge, and could be a contributor for HS Football in the state of Indiana. It’s the disingenuous ego driven manner in which you do it that rubs people wrong. The post is a prime example, once I read the first item, most of the rest of it is dismissed based on the fact the first paragraph is total BS.   

I lead, you follow.  Its always been that way, and its the way it always will be.

Some of us are born to lead and clear the path.  We are very few in number, but with great resolve we forge ahead , breaking thru barriers and fighting off detractors.

I much prefer to lead than follow.  

The majority of the members here either lack original thought, or are incapable of translating those thoughts via the written word.  

Its been my pleasure to provide that service for them.

[Impartial_Observer]

15 minutes ago, HHF said:

I lead, you follow.  Its always been that way, and its the way it always will be.

Some of us are born to lead and clear the path.  We are very few in number, but with great resolve we forge ahead , breaking thru barriers and fighting off detractors.

I much prefer to lead than follow.  

The majority of the members here either lack original thought, or are incapable of translating those thoughts via the written word.  

Its been my pleasure to provide that service for them.

So not only are you riding TA’s coat tails with the vehicle that he DK, Jimmie, etc. built, you’re also claiming intellectual dominance of the audience you hope to monetize at some point. You’re truly a piece of work. 
 

Lastly busted, I’ve been a follower all my life…..as I told you earlier, you are the definition of not knowing what you don’t know. 

[gonzoron]

[DE]

11 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

So not only are you riding TA’s coat tails with the vehicle that he DK, Jimmie, etc. built, you’re also claiming intellectual dominance of the audience you hope to monetize at some point. You’re truly a piece of work. 
 

Lastly busted, I’ve been a follower all my life…..as I told you earlier, you are the definition of not knowing what you don’t know. 

Wait. He’s not making money off his Facebook gig?  I remember him saying he won’t “get out of bed” for a job that pays less than $80,000.00 (paraphrasing). 

[Bobref]

16 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Sure, but I believe if you cannot measure "taller" than your local peers consistently, what is the point of trying to measure against statewide peers?

“A man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s heaven for?”

     — Robert Browning

 

[temptation]

“You don’t matter to us and we are going to prove it by making yet another thread 6 pages long telling you why.”

A wise man once told me:  “If you have haters it probably means you’re doing something right.”

Geez people.  Just keep scrolling if that’s honestly your take.  YOU are the rocket fuel.

Edited February 10, 2022 by temptation

[oldtimeqb]

@HHF Question from a fellow businessman. Why did you title this thread DT’s Dandy Dozen?

If you want to promote your brand, shouldn’t you re-title it HHF’s dandy dozen? 

It seems akin to GM running Pontiac ads or Ford promoting Mercury. 

Just a thought.

[BDGiant93]

12 hours ago, HHF said:

 

The majority of the members here either lack original thought, or are incapable of translating those thoughts via the written word.  

 

Eye iz KnOT CaPEUhBull Of ReEdiNG ThIz. Can SuMOne TrANZLaYTe?

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

@HHF Question from a fellow businessman. Why did you title this thread DT’s Dandy Dozen?

If you want to promote your brand, shouldn’t you re-title it HHF’s dandy dozen? 

It seems akin to GM running Pontiac ads or Ford promoting Mercury. 

Just a thought.

There is some strategic thought that goes into separation of the two brands.  

 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

So not only are you riding TA’s coat tails with the vehicle that he DK, Jimmie, etc. built, you’re also claiming intellectual dominance of the audience you hope to monetize at some point. You’re truly a piece of work. 
 

Lastly busted, I’ve been a follower all my life…..as I told you earlier, you are the definition of not knowing what you don’t know. 

TA was a terrific guy, but all he really did was create a messageboard for others to populate.  He was not a writer and he rarely if ever contributed any original content.  He was content to sit back and let others do the work of generating forum activity, which ultimately produced some ad revenue for TA and his partners.

The HHF is not a messageboard.  Its a readers site.  People go there to absorb the content, and move on.  Like a newspaper.  Comments are few and far between, and are not part of the success equation.  

Your loyalty to TA is to be admired.  

[Muda69]

13 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I’m sorry, I can’t get past #1. I think you’re mind is slipping a little in your retirement. I seem to remember things being a bit more heated back in the day of The Horde.

Agreed.  The "Hurricane Scirfes" incident was especially egregious.