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Irishman
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Convo started in another topic, but it's worth its own topic. 

This link also includes links to several articles on the current situation
https://theathletic.com/3066905/2022/03/01/mlb-lockout-news-now-that-baseball-games-are-canceled-whats-the-fight-over/

This link shows how the owners in multiple sports have gained a LOT of leverage over players.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-billionaire-playbook-how-sports-owners-use-their-teams-to-avoid-millions-in-taxes?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social 

A quick graphic from the 2nd link:
Image

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My contention for decades is that as ridiculous as many player contracts seem; do we want to see the owners pocketing even more money while keeping player contracts lower? I have also said that for decades now, that even with the huge player contracts, they have not even put a dent in the amount of profit owners are making. 

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42 minutes ago, Irishman said:

My contention for decades is that as ridiculous as many player contracts seem; do we want to see the owners pocketing even more money while keeping player contracts lower? I have also said that for decades now, that even with the huge player contracts, they have not even put a dent in the amount of profit owners are making. 

Age old question....

Who is more important, the owner or the player (worker)?

We are talking that amount of money, I have ZERO sympathy for any of them, owner or player.

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4 minutes ago, DE said:

Age old question....

Who is more important, the owner or the player (worker)?

We are talking that amount of money, I have ZERO sympathy for any of them, owner or player.

You are right, age old question......even back to a time when owners got rich; REALLY rich, while their workers were paid nothing; literally. 
Not that I am crying for either side either, but it seems to be a mindset across multiple aspects of every day life. 

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We have spring training tickets, an air BnB, and flights scheduled for mid-march in AZ.  Sucks if things don't get settled.  My feeling is it gets settled this week, or it's totally blown up and nothing until May.

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11 minutes ago, Irishman said:

You are right, age old question......even back to a time when owners got rich; REALLY rich, while their workers were paid nothing; literally. 
Not that I am crying for either side either, but it seems to be a mindset across multiple aspects of every day life. 

Kind of like what is going on in China presently.  All sad.

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12 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

We have spring training tickets, an air BnB, and flights scheduled for mid-march in AZ.  Sucks if things don't get settled.  My feeling is it gets settled this week, or it's totally blown up and nothing until May.

I was hoping a slight delay might move Spring Training to end a week or so later. Our Spring break timing has only lined up once for me to catch games in Fort Myers. I love going to those games; seeing big leaguers in what amounts to a single A ballpark. Got to see Big Papi play his last season. 

9 minutes ago, DE said:

Kind of like what is going on in China presently.  All sad.

agreed

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Players are speaking out....their perspective, which makes sense, is that the owners did NOT want the season to start on time because the early season is not as profitable, and actually costs some of them some money covering expenses. If this can be proven, not bargaining in good faith is a serious charge, that could carry legal and financial consequences. 

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2022/03/02/jason-heyward-and-willson-contreras-take-the-gloves-off/?fbclid=IwAR2oG8Z6FbuJ1DGh-UP7V34KfflbeB8boZgefF8ckSv8FQp54TZzlWYvPQc 
 

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16 hours ago, Irishman said:

Players are speaking out....their perspective, which makes sense, is that the owners did NOT want the season to start on time because the early season is not as profitable, and actually costs some of them some money covering expenses. If this can be proven, not bargaining in good faith is a serious charge, that could carry legal and financial consequences. 

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2022/03/02/jason-heyward-and-willson-contreras-take-the-gloves-off/?fbclid=IwAR2oG8Z6FbuJ1DGh-UP7V34KfflbeB8boZgefF8ckSv8FQp54TZzlWYvPQc 
 

....meanwhile in Ukraine.........

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Just a random thought.  I wonder if MLB would take an idea from MiLB and use their method of scheduling (play the same opponent Tuesday-Sunday and Monday for travel).

It would save on air travel and maybe hotel expenses.  

The way the major league game is, it is a bullpen game.  It wouldn't effect pitching that much.

Just a thought

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26 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Just a random thought.  I wonder if MLB would take an idea from MiLB and use their method of scheduling (play the same opponent Tuesday-Sunday and Monday for travel).

It would save on air travel and maybe hotel expenses.  

The way the major league game is, it is a bullpen game.  It wouldn't effect pitching that much.

Just a thought

What the hell is MiLB?  😂

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9 minutes ago, temptation said:

This could ultimately be the final death nail for professional baseball in this country.  It was already dying a slow death and this will only speed up that process.

BINGO

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17 minutes ago, temptation said:

This could ultimately be the final death nail for professional baseball in this country.  It was already dying a slow death and this will only speed up that process.

It’s “death knell,” not “nail,” although come to think of it, that sort of works in a mixed metaphor kind of way.

But you’re correct. It amazes me that people who have been so successful can be so tone deaf. Like Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

Edited by Bobref
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2 hours ago, temptation said:

This could ultimately be the final death nail for professional baseball in this country.  It was already dying a slow death and this will only speed up that process.

Owners don't want to give up that cash cow.  Even though their greed is at the heart of this, they will eventually meet the players on the owners side of the middle.  And, after a season of anger from the fans, all will be forgotten. 

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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

It’s “death knell,” not “nail,” although come to think of it, that sort of works in a mixed metaphor kind of way.

But you’re correct. It amazes me that people who have been so successful can be so tone deaf. Like Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

Oops.  Always figured it had to do with nailing a coffin shut.  Your skills know zero bounds @Bobref!

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20 hours ago, Staxawax said:

Owners don't want to give up that cash cow.  Even though their greed is at the heart of this, they will eventually meet the players on the owners side of the middle.  And, after a season of anger from the fans, all will be forgotten. 

Spoken like a true union man.....

Guess an average salary of $4.17MM a year isn't enough playing a kid's game.  Clearly the greed is one-sided.  🙄

Meanwhile, wonder how that compares to the average salary of a school teacher, policeman, firefighter and oh yeah...a soldier?

What's going on in the world and the impact on people....ridiculous timing to squabbling over $$ with this demographic.  Poor mistreated baseball players....my heart aches for them.

What's the cost today of a family of 4 to attend a MLB game?  Tickets, parking, hot dog, popcorn and a beer.  Yeah, lets increase that even more.  But MLB will claim they love their fans.  What a joke.

We will agree to disagree that the greed only comes from one direction.

Hopefully, one day America will wake up and start deprioritizing entertainment and start demanding their money goes toward the people that serve them and truly makes a difference.

 

Edited by Bash Riprock
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3 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Spoken like a true union man.....

Guess an average salary of $4.17MM a year isn't enough playing a kid's game.  Clearly the greed is one-sided.  🙄

Meanwhile, wonder how that compares to the average salary of a school teacher, policeman, firefighter and oh yeah...a soldier?

What's going on in the world and the impact on people....ridiculous timing to squabbling over $$ with this demographic.  Poor mistreated baseball players....my heart aches for them.

What's the cost today of a family of 4 to attend a MLB game?  Tickets, parking, hot dog, popcorn and a beer.  Yeah, lets increase that even more.  But MLB will claim they love their fans.  What a joke.

We will agree to disagree that the greed only comes from one direction.

Hopefully, one day America will wake up and start deprioritizing entertainment and start demanding their money goes toward the people that serve them and truly makes a difference.

 

That argument, while it has populist appeal, misses the mark by a wide margin. In the marketplace, compensation is determined by 2 main factors: the demand for the service and the scarcity of the supply of that service. There are an awful lot of people who, with a bit of educatIon and training, can become a productive teacher, policeman, firefighter, etc. There are far fewer people who can hit a 93 mph slider down and away.

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3 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Spoken like a true union man.....

Guess an average salary of $4.17MM a year isn't enough playing a kid's game.  Clearly the greed is one-sided.  🙄

Meanwhile, wonder how that compares to the average salary of a school teacher, policeman, firefighter and oh yeah...a soldier?

What's going on in the world and the impact on people....ridiculous timing to squabbling over $$ with this demographic.  Poor mistreated baseball players....my heart aches for them.

What's the cost today of a family of 4 to attend a MLB game?  Tickets, parking, hot dog, popcorn and a beer.  Yeah, lets increase that even more.  But MLB will claim they love their fans.  What a joke.

We will agree to disagree that the greed only comes from one direction.

Hopefully, one day America will wake up and start deprioritizing entertainment and start demanding their money goes toward the people that serve them and truly makes a difference.

 

Players in Rookie ball pay 400 a month for 5 months

A ball- 500 a month

AA ball- 600 a month

AAA ball- 700 a month

Meal Money all levels 25 a day only for road games

Players must find their own housing as well

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3 hours ago, Bobref said:

That argument, while it has populist appeal, misses the mark by a wide margin. In the marketplace, compensation is determined by 2 main factors: the demand for the service and the scarcity of the supply of that service. There are an awful lot of people who, with a bit of educatIon and training, can become a productive teacher, policeman, firefighter, etc. There are far fewer people who can hit a 93 mph slider down and away.

Yeah. Neither can the pro baseball players. 

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10 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Spoken like a true union man.....

Guess an average salary of $4.17MM a year isn't enough playing a kid's game.  Clearly the greed is one-sided.  🙄

Meanwhile, wonder how that compares to the average salary of a school teacher, policeman, firefighter and oh yeah...a soldier?

What's going on in the world and the impact on people....ridiculous timing to squabbling over $$ with this demographic.  Poor mistreated baseball players....my heart aches for them.

What's the cost today of a family of 4 to attend a MLB game?  Tickets, parking, hot dog, popcorn and a beer.  Yeah, lets increase that even more.  But MLB will claim they love their fans.  What a joke.

We will agree to disagree that the greed only comes from one direction.

Hopefully, one day America will wake up and start deprioritizing entertainment and start demanding their money goes toward the people that serve them and truly makes a difference.

 

Never said the players weren't greedy. But as you've already been shown, very few you would label greedy.  We know what every baseball player, from rookie league to the majors, makes in salary.  We don't know as the laws currently stand how much the owners make. And they hide this purposely. If it ever got out, the players, all of them, would be making more. Plus the owners for the most part have managed to hide much of the profits from uncle sam.  And no, I'm not pro-union.

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56 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

Never said the players weren't greedy. But as you've already been shown, very few you would label greedy.  We know what every baseball player, from rookie league to the majors, makes in salary.  We don't know as the laws currently stand how much the owners make. And they hide this purposely. If it ever got out, the players, all of them, would be making more. Plus the owners for the most part have managed to hide much of the profits from uncle sam.  And no, I'm not pro-union.

Like POTUS Trump said to Hillary in the 2016 debates…..”change the laws/exterminate the loops holes” that allow this “hiding of profits from Uncle Sam.”  All are playing by the same cheating rules. All of them. 
 

If MLB didn’t have the owners, there wouldn’t be a league. Some will say, w/o the players, the owners wouldn’t make a profit. Both are very likely true. 
 

Don’t like the rules/laws/formula?  Change them. Boycott the games. Don’t watch. Etc. 

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I find the labeling of one side or another as “greedy” to be laughable. The owners believe they are entitled to maximize profits because they are the ones with all the capital at risk. They’re right. The players feel entitled to a bigger slice of the pie because it is their talents on display that generate the revenue. They are right, too.  Both are attempting to achieve their own goals and maneuver for a favorable outcome. How could anyone realistically expect it to be otherwise? How can one side or the other be “at fault,” when both are doing exactly what they are supposed to do?

As far as “greed” goes, how much money is enough? The answer is that “enough” is the amount of money the other guy has. It’s never the amount you have.

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