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Baseball is back, but the DH is everywhere, and that’s awful


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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

 I’m talking about the national pastime of the USA.

I thought that became American Tackle Football at least a couple of decades ago?  At least according to many on this forum.

 

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interesting read..........this may be more about perception and the hope of something big vs reality.  But driving up attendance and viewership?  I don't think so.

https://brandeishoot.com/2020/10/09/results-of-the-designated-hitter-rule-change-in-the-mlb/

So, for the 2020 season, there was a DH for the teams in the National League for the first time. Since there was now a DH in both leagues, you would assume a higher average batting average for the entire league. However, that is not what occurred this season. Based on the information from Baseball Reference, the average batting average for the entire league was 0.245 and teams scored 4.65 runs per game, on average. If you take a look specifically at the National League, you can see that they had an average batting average of 0.246 and only scored an average of 4.71 runs per game during this season. Both of those statistics are less than last season without the DH. 

Does this mean that the DH in the National League is actually worse for teams’ offenses? Do the DH curse National League teams to have worse offensive seasons? Should the National League go back to having pitchers hit to improve batting for these teams? The answer is: maybe. In reality these statistics are a bit deceiving because of the shortened season. The previous year’s stats were measured for a full 162 games while this year only consisted of 60 games. So, in general the down year could actually improve if there were more games, considering most hitters start off really slow and get better when they play more games. Additionally, this season was full of surprises. Many players were either forced to not play or chose not to play due to restrictions because of the coronavirus pandemic, so this may have influenced batting stats. 

Even though statistically overall, the addition of the DH did not accomplish the task of increasing the offense in the MLB, the entertainment level of the game likely went up. No longer did people have to sit and watch the pitcher be a “free out.” The reality of the change is that it seems like there is more chance for offense because you have someone that can actually hit in the lineup over the pitcher. 

Overall, the rule change did its job. It helped keep some pitchers safe from being injured and it gave people that only watch National League baseball a taste of what it is like to have a DH hitting instead of the pitcher. People don’t really care about whether or not statistically there was an increase in offense in baseball. What people really care about is what seems to be happening. It doesn’t matter if the batting average of teams went down; now that the pitcher isn’t hitting, you have one more chance of hitting a home run in any particular inning. 

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theses from a Clemson grad student "Revisiting The Impact of the Designated Hitter on MLB"  2010.  Perhaps the data has changed since this work, but interesting read nonetheless.

https://tigerprints.clemson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1878&context=all_theses#:~:text=They included%3A 1.,a temporary pinch hitter 3.

The DH rule change was designed to improve attendance in the AL. When performing a regression analysis on 108 years of data, it appears that complete games pitched is more closely aligned with attendance than are batters ages or runs scored.

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2 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

interesting read..........this may be more about perception and the hope of something big vs reality.  But driving up attendance and viewership?  I don't think so.

https://brandeishoot.com/2020/10/09/results-of-the-designated-hitter-rule-change-in-the-mlb/

So, for the 2020 season, there was a DH for the teams in the National League for the first time. Since there was now a DH in both leagues, you would assume a higher average batting average for the entire league. However, that is not what occurred this season. Based on the information from Baseball Reference, the average batting average for the entire league was 0.245 and teams scored 4.65 runs per game, on average. If you take a look specifically at the National League, you can see that they had an average batting average of 0.246 and only scored an average of 4.71 runs per game during this season. Both of those statistics are less than last season without the DH. 

Does this mean that the DH in the National League is actually worse for teams’ offenses? Do the DH curse National League teams to have worse offensive seasons? Should the National League go back to having pitchers hit to improve batting for these teams? The answer is: maybe. In reality these statistics are a bit deceiving because of the shortened season. The previous year’s stats were measured for a full 162 games while this year only consisted of 60 games. So, in general the down year could actually improve if there were more games, considering most hitters start off really slow and get better when they play more games. Additionally, this season was full of surprises. Many players were either forced to not play or chose not to play due to restrictions because of the coronavirus pandemic, so this may have influenced batting stats. 

Even though statistically overall, the addition of the DH did not accomplish the task of increasing the offense in the MLB, the entertainment level of the game likely went up. No longer did people have to sit and watch the pitcher be a “free out.” The reality of the change is that it seems like there is more chance for offense because you have someone that can actually hit in the lineup over the pitcher. 

Overall, the rule change did its job. It helped keep some pitchers safe from being injured and it gave people that only watch National League baseball a taste of what it is like to have a DH hitting instead of the pitcher. People don’t really care about whether or not statistically there was an increase in offense in baseball. What people really care about is what seems to be happening. It doesn’t matter if the batting average of teams went down; now that the pitcher isn’t hitting, you have one more chance of hitting a home run in any particular inning. 

Hence, my previous observation about lost “opportunities.”

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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

Hence, my previous observation about lost “opportunities.”

Opportunities with no statistical relationship to real success…

Ok…..but if we just do something…anything…

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14 hours ago, Bobref said:

You’re the one who posted it.

LOL...SMH

What I did post were a couple of examples that showed their was no real statistical relationship to the DH making the game better.  a slight offensive increase. I also provided a paper (dated back to 2010) that illustrates the DH has done nothing to increase attendance in its use over time in the AL.

The DH brings a perception more than anything else.  It hasn't driven attendance in the past, but you think it may now.  OK....wish away.

What has led to the decline in MLB attendance is hardly the difference in offensive production in the NL vs the AL.  7 of the top 10 MLB teams in 2021 are NL teams....if the DH was so great to spur attendance, why aren't AL teams doing better putting fans in the stands?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193664/regular-season-home-attendance-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/

 

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4 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

LOL...SMH

What I did post were a couple of examples that showed their was no real statistical relationship to the DH making the game better.  a slight offensive increase. I also provided a paper (dated back to 2010) that illustrates the DH has done nothing to increase attendance in its use over time in the AL.

The DH brings a perception more than anything else.  It hasn't driven attendance in the past, but you think it may now.  OK....wish away.

What has led to the decline in MLB attendance is hardly the difference in offensive production in the NL vs the AL.  7 of the top 10 MLB teams in 2021 are NL teams....if the DH was so great to spur attendance, why aren't AL teams doing better putting fans in the stands?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193664/regular-season-home-attendance-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/

 

😀

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Baseball is not the same game as used to be.

Batters are looking to hit home runs all the time.  If not, a strikeout or walk.

The running game is almost eliminated due to the need for power.

Starting pitchers are only expected to pitch 5 innings.  The bullpen is the most important of the team right now

Utility players have more value that ever in the game.

The DH saves moves to eliminate your bench.

Have to start looking at the game differently

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1 hour ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Baseball is not the same game as used to be.

Batters are looking to hit home runs all the time.  If not, a strikeout or walk.

The running game is almost eliminated due to the need for power.

Starting pitchers are only expected to pitch 5 innings.  The bullpen is the most important of the team right now

Utility players have more value that ever in the game.

The DH saves moves to eliminate your bench.

Have to start looking at the game differently

Interesting.  This is true, I agree.

Thought unions are ALL ABOUT protecting the worker?  The DH literally eliminates workers.

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1 hour ago, DE said:

Interesting.  This is true, I agree.

Thought unions are ALL ABOUT protecting the worker?  The DH literally eliminates workers.

I don’t understand. Isn’t the roster size staying the same?

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6 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

The DH brings a perception more than anything else.  It hasn't driven attendance in the past, but you think it may now.  OK....wish away

If we’re talking about marketing the game to new fans, perception is all that counts. And the DH is a small piece of the puzzle in terms of tweaking the game to appeal to a new generation of fans.

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38 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I don’t understand. Isn’t the roster size staying the same?

On paper, you wouldn't need nearly as many utility/inf/out/pinch hitters/etc.

Going with the DH, why do you need all of those players.

I would guess the rosters will look different with more pitchers.

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16 hours ago, Bobref said:

If we’re talking about marketing the game to new fans, perception is all that counts. And the DH is a small piece of the puzzle in terms of tweaking the game to appeal to a new generation of fans.

if the DH in the AL hasn't made a big difference in the past (and I supplied you plenty of data that shows it hasn't) then WHY do you think adding the DH to the NL will make a significant difference to a new generation of fans that currently don't have a baseball tradition?  As I showed you, the NL already has 7 of the 10 highest drawing venues now in MLB, based off 2021 attendance.

According to this article, MLB has the oldest fans of all major sports.  I understand trying to do something to get the attention of the 18-34 age group.  

https://frontofficesports.com/mlb-looks-to-grow-its-younger-fanbase/

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-sports-with-the-oldest-and-youngest-tv-audiences-2017-06-30

Major League Baseball’s television audience is among the oldest in professional sports, according to data recently released by Street & Smith’s Sports Business Journal and Magna Global. The average age of a baseball viewer is 57, up from 52 in 2006. There won’t be a youth movement, either, as just 7% of baseball’s audience is below age 18.

Can you provide something other than your personal desire to see expansion of the DH work when history has proven its had minimal impact?

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Major league attendance this season....6 of the bottom 10 teams are American League teams.  Teams that have had the DH in place for a long time.  Should I believe that the Dodgers, Cards, Braves and Padres attendance is due to the DH?  (focus on the highlighted home attendance)

Oakland is packing them in....2700 in the stadium yesterday......7 teams avg less than 20K at home....another 17 avg less than 30K at home.  

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/oakland-as-see-record-low-attendance-number-for-second-straight-game/

DH is interesting....but as the past studies have shown... little correlation with attendance......

 

image.thumb.png.8455309609dbb70437de2a44176a05fa.png

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The teams at the bottom have owners that have shown they are not investing in their teams at all. The entire A's roster is at $33 Million for a year. There are a number of players making more than that this season. Fans do not react well to poor management by the front office. Interesting that Atlanta is where it is. It's one of those cities that a lot of people move to for a job. Even back in the 90's on their deep playoff runs, the stadium did not seem like a sell out. I think some places are low because the weather has just sucked in a lot of places. It has been cold with a lot of rain and snow around the Great Lakes; and only Milwaukee can close their roof. Interesting to see the Dodgers in first. They are famous for late arriving crowds and low early season attendance. 

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