Blue Bloods - Indiana High School Football

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

That being said. What is the criteria? Are we going back to the 80's or just the 90's? 

One state championship

One state championship appearance per decade (80's forward)

Two regional championships per decade (90's forward)

Four sectional titles per decade (90's forward)

 

Again tough to do with Indiana High School football considering the amount of closures and consolidations over the years as well as enrollment boosts and other factors. I think there's several schools who fit the blue-blood criteria for a sustained period of success going back 40-50 years. I think to be considered a true blue-blood you need a minimum of 5 state titles and titles must be won in at least 3 different decades. That eliminates a good chunk of programs who have been on the upswing the last 15-20 years. 

 

[Footballking16]

7 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

So...Clemson isn't a blue blood, but Duke became a blue blood the moment Coach K took over the program?......even though it took 11 seasons to win his first title.  He was 85-65 over his first 5 years.  I am not debating they aren't a blue blood program....I am simply saying it took a few years of sustained excellence to become a blue blood.....but not your 40-50 year timeframe criteria.

No. Clemson isn't a blue-blood and nowhere ever did I say Duke instantly became a blue-blood once Coach K took the reigns. K was at Duke 42 years and Duke achieved blue-blood status sometime during his tenure, my opinion in 2015 after winning his 5th title. This would have been 35 years into his tenure. I believe that is enough to qualify them in that regard. 

 

10 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

BTW, I never said a decade....I just don't believe it has to be 40-50 years.  And if we use your criteria, there are example of teams considered blue bloods that were dominant in the earlier period of those 50 years, that are certainly not dominant today.  The authors that believe there are only 8 blue bloods list Nebraska, USC and Michigan in that list.  Based on their performance over the past 10-20 years, I struggle with calling those blue blood programs any longer.

My opinion is that it takes close to 40-50 years to gain blue-blood status but again that's arbitrary. And it certainly should take longer than a decade or two to lose blue-blood status. Clemson right now is sitting at about a decade of sustained success. That qualifies them in the elite category (current) but still nowhere close to that blue-blood level. In my opinion Clemson needs at least another 20-25 years of similar success before being mentioned with the true blue-bloods of college football. 

I consider Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, USC, and Notre Dame to be the blue-bloods of college football. All five of those programs have had a sustained level of success for 50+ years. Michigan, Nebraska, and Texas are right behind them.

[BTF]

11 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I think to be considered a true blue-blood you need a minimum of 5 state titles and titles must be won in at least 3 different decades. 

 And then there were seven. Snider and Zionsville eliminated. 

Ben Davis, Dwenger, Luers, Cathedral, Chatard, Roncalli, and Penn.

 

[Footballking16]

5 minutes ago, BTF said:

 And then there were seven. Snider and Zionsville eliminated. 

Ben Davis, Dwenger, Luers, Cathedral, Chatard, Roncalli, and Penn.

 

You forgot Carmel who has titles in the 70's, 80, 2000's, and 2010's. But yes that's a pretty solid list. My personal Mt Rushmore for Indiana High School Football is:

Carmel

Cathedral

Luers

Chatard

[BTF]

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

You forgot Carmel who has titles in the 70's, 80, 2000's, and 2010's. But yes that's a pretty solid list. My personal Mt Rushmore for Indiana High School Football is:

Carmel

Cathedral

Luers

Chatard

Carmel is out............no success in the 90's. 

[BTF]

37 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I think there's several schools who fit the blue-blood criteria for a sustained period of success going back 40-50 years.

 

But not Warren Central and Carmel.

That being said, I think you could make a case for both programs as their success in every other decade was enough to make up for their lack of success in the 90's.

You could also make an exception for Snider. They were successful every decade. Five state titles are hard to come by when you have to play several programs twice your enrollment to hoist up the trophy. 

[Footballking16]

16 minutes ago, BTF said:

Carmel is out............no success in the 90's. 

Carmel is almost certainly not out. I said in order to be considered you needed to have minimum 5 state titles in at least 3 different decades. They certainly fit that bill. 

[Footballking16]

9 minutes ago, BTF said:

But not Warren Central and Carmel.

That being said, I think you could make a case for both programs as their success in every other decade was enough to make up for their lack of success in the 90's.

You could also make an exception for Snider. They were successful every decade. Five state titles are hard to come by when you have to play several programs twice your enrollment to hoist up the trophy. 

Both Warren and Carmel have had sustained success the last 50 years despite not winning a title in the 90's. There isn't a more successful big class school in the history of the sport than Carmel. They are most certainly an Indiana blue-blood and arguably at the top of the list in my opinion.

[BTF]

13 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Both Warren and Carmel have had sustained success the last 50 years despite not winning a title in the 90's. There isn't a more successful big class school in the history of the sport than Carmel. They are most certainly an Indiana blue-blood and arguably at the top of the list in my opinion.

You said "sustained success." They never even made it to the final game in the 90's. That's not sustained success. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by BTF
Grammer - GID is a rough crew when it comes to that

[Footballking16]

11 minutes ago, BTF said:

You said "sustained success." They never even made it to the final game in the 90's. That's not sustained success. 

Winning 9 state titles and 7 runner-ups spanning 5 different decades is the definition of sustained success. They have the most sectional titles of any program in the history of the sport. They are the walking definition of a blue-blood. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Footballking16

[BTF]

36 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Winning 9 state titles and 7 runner-ups spanning 5 different decades is the definition of sustained success. They have the most sectional titles of any program in the history of the sport. They are the walking definition of a blue-blood. 

I have them down for four decades. The 70's, 80's, 2000's, and 2010's. They disappeared in the 90's.

Only the following schools have been successful every decade from the 80's until now: Ben Davis, Dwenger, Luers, Cathedral, Chatard, Roncalli,Snider, Zionsville and Penn. Those nine pass the test for Blue Bloods. Carmel and Warren Central get a pass for the vast amount of success that they achieved every decade but the 90's. Twenty nine other programs can make a case by tweaking the criteria here and there. 

It's been a fun discussion. 

 

[Footballking16]

31 minutes ago, BTF said:

I have them down for four decades. The 70's, 80's, 2000's, and 2010's. They disappeared in the 90's.

Only the following schools have been successful every decade from the 80's until now: Ben Davis, Dwenger, Luers, Cathedral, Chatard, Roncalli,Snider, Zionsville and Penn. Those nine pass the test for Blue Bloods. Carmel and Warren Central get a pass for the vast amount of success that they achieved every decade but the 90's. Twenty nine other programs can make a case by tweaking the criteria here and there. 

It's been a fun discussion. 

 

Carmel didn’t disappear in the 90’s, they just didn’t win any state titles. They won multiple sectional and regional championships and subsequently had multiple semi-state appearances. That decade of “disappearing” is a decade of excellence for all but 5 or 6 programs in the state. Just goes to show you how good Carmel has been for so long.

But yes, good topic and discussion nonetheless.

[Robert]

17 hours ago, BTF said:

 And then there were seven. Snider and Zionsville eliminated. 

Ben Davis, Dwenger, Luers, Cathedral, Chatard, Roncalli, and Penn.

 

And Luers and Dwenger will have wins and losses against other teams that were in and off of that list in many of those years, but someone will point out 2A and 3A titles.  Yes, but they may have beaten Snider in 5A that year or insert school of choice here.  Everything after the but is BS.

[Ballhawk]

On 4/19/2022 at 5:51 PM, Donnie Baker said:

I don’t know any football poems or stuff like that. I do know North Judsons was one of the hardest hitting teams I’ve ever seen. Second and foremost they had 4 1,000 yard rushers in that pulley bone offense. I gotta go 

We knocked off Lawrenceburg in the Regional (now semistate) and then North Judson in the final.  Two pretty big and hard-hitting teams.  I may be a little bias but we were pretty good too.

[BTF]

5 hours ago, Robert said:

And Luers and Dwenger will have wins and losses against other teams that were in and off of that list in many of those years, but someone will point out 2A and 3A titles.  Yes, but they may have beaten Snider in 5A that year or insert school of choice here.  Everything after the but is BS.

Robert. I think we are finding that Luers has a large amount of respect statewide, regardless of the size of their school. 

[Donnie Baker]

3 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

We knocked off Lawrenceburg in the Regional (now semistate) and then North Judson in the final.  Two pretty big and hard-hitting teams.  I may be a little bias but we were pretty good too.

You had to have been good to beat them back to back. I saw Lawrenceburgs play once and they beat the crap out of a pretty good team.