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High Coaching Turnover A Real Concern - Impacts Competitive Balance


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When I first started teaching, there were some positions that were more "coach friendly".  Today, that isn't the case.  I have seen coaches leave because they can't do their teaching and coaching jobs to the level they want.

Getting to know the kids outside the field is very important.  If you only see them at practice, it's hard to develop relationships with them.

There are many head coaches that can't find decent assistants to help, so he does most of the coaching solo.  Not good for one's sanity.

 

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On 5/7/2022 at 12:58 PM, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

When I first started teaching, there were some positions that were more "coach friendly".  Today, that isn't the case.  I have seen coaches leave because they can't do their teaching and coaching jobs to the level they want.

Getting to know the kids outside the field is very important.  If you only see them at practice, it's hard to develop relationships with them.

There are many head coaches that can't find decent assistants to help, so he does most of the coaching solo.  Not good for one's sanity.

 

Bingo.  

This is precisely why I am leaving my current position at Whiting HS.  I teach 3 middle school computer science classes (6th, 7th, and 8th).  Then in the high school I teach an AP Computer Science class, a dual credit PLTW engineering class, and 2 robotics classes.  I do not have a prep. 

With this work load I cannot be visible in the building.  I tried to get my schedule to be more "coach friendly" but it wasn't feasible.  So I finally had to make a change.  Whiting is my alma mater and I've been coaching here for 20 years but something had to give.  Tough decision but it's the correct one.  

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9 hours ago, Coach Jennings said:

Bingo.  

This is precisely why I am leaving my current position at Whiting HS.  I teach 3 middle school computer science classes (6th, 7th, and 8th).  Then in the high school I teach an AP Computer Science class, a dual credit PLTW engineering class, and 2 robotics classes.  I do not have a prep. 

With this work load I cannot be visible in the building.  I tried to get my schedule to be more "coach friendly" but it wasn't feasible.  So I finally had to make a change.  Whiting is my alma mater and I've been coaching here for 20 years but something had to give.  Tough decision but it's the correct one.  

With the exception of 30 or 40 elite level jobs in various classes around the state, it appears that more and more of these coaching positions are just thankless jobs.  This trend pushes the sport quicker towards the "lay coach" model, which will only exacerbate the great divide between the haves and the havenots.  

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13 hours ago, HHF said:

With the exception of 30 or 40 elite level jobs in various classes around the state, it appears that more and more of these coaching positions are just thankless jobs.  This trend pushes the sport quicker towards the "lay coach" model, which will only exacerbate the great divide between the haves and the havenots.  

One of the drivers behind the officiating shortage is the unreasonable behavior of fans toward sports officials. Many of those “fans” are actually parents or other relatives of players. If they act that way, in public, toward officials, I can only imagine how they act toward coaches when Little Johnny is riding the pines, or Little Suzy is batting 8th instead of cleanup. I’m sure @Impartial_Observercan share on that subject, as can many others.

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1 hour ago, Bobref said:

One of the drivers behind the officiating shortage is the unreasonable behavior of fans toward sports officials. Many of those “fans” are actually parents or other relatives of players. If they act that way, in public, toward officials, I can only imagine how they act toward coaches when Little Johnny is riding the pines, or Little Suzy is batting 8th instead of cleanup. I’m sure @Impartial_Observercan share on that subject, as can many others.

I am not as tech savvy as most on here, but there is a great youtube video by coach Frank Martin (then of South Carolina) about referees and coaches.  It is worth a listen.

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23 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

I am not as tech savvy as most on here, but there is a great youtube video by coach Frank Martin (then of South Carolina) about referees and coaches.  It is worth a listen.

I gotchu
 

 

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25 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

I am not as tech savvy as most on here, but there is a great youtube video by coach Frank Martin (then of South Carolina) about referees and coaches.  It is worth a listen.

It's right on the money!

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20 hours ago, Bobref said:

One of the drivers behind the officiating shortage is the unreasonable behavior of fans toward sports officials. Many of those “fans” are actually parents or other relatives of players. If they act that way, in public, toward officials, I can only imagine how they act toward coaches when Little Johnny is riding the pines, or Little Suzy is batting 8th instead of cleanup. I’m sure @Impartial_Observercan share on that subject, as can many others.

Coaching at the HS level is a HUGE commitment. Not just for the coach but for his family as well. I loved coaching, I loved practices, being around kids, teaching, watching them develop, watching them become successful you adults. What I miss most are the relationships with the kids, I think being around kids keeps you young. I miss the alone time with just the coaching staff, after a game or practice, game planning, practice planning, sharing fellowship, etc.

You just reach a point where it’s like why am I doing this? The last year I coached we started the season on a hot streak, we were like 10-0 and ranked like 8th in the state. I had to meet with a parent who’s kid had started and played in every game, because the parent was unhappy about where the kid was playing. Long story short, I’m missing my own kid’s pretty successful college career to coach, and the resounding question in my mind is why am I dealing with this crap? I made up my mind during another such parent meeting and turned my resignation that night. 
 

I have had multiple chances to coach since, and as much as I would love do it, particularly with some of the people who’ve asked, I know what comes with it, and just decline. 
 

Coaching is the toughest job you’ll ever love. Unrealistic expectations, why isn’t my kid playing, why is my kid playing OF instead of IF, the social media posts (though I never had much issues with that) the massive amount of time away from family and friends, it just stacks up and people get tired of it. It is concerning to me, we are losing good young coaches across the board in all sports. 
 

A little caveat, last Thursday I had the plate for a big conference game that had championship implications. It was the best game I’ve seen all season, pitchers duel, 0-0 thru 7 innings. I personally had a great game, yes as an official you know when you walk off the field. In short it was FUN, which ultimately is why I’m there. However, thanks to one of the coaches, who starts bitching about “presenting the ball” in the bottom of the first inning, which is not a term that has been in the rule book in the 20 or so years I’ve been involved. And since he can’t get any satisfaction out of me on his made up term, it sets the tone for the whole night and by the third inning, we’ve degenerated to arguing balls and strikes. He just sucked all the fun out of it for everyone. The opposing catcher even asked at one point, what is that guys problem? I’m not going to lie, and I have shared with some AD’s I don’t know what my future in officiating is at this point. I haven’t even made up my mind whether I’m doing Football this fall or not yet, but I can assure you this, dealing with assholes is making the decision for me. FYI, I had to stop the game in the bottom of the 8th with the visitors up 1-0 because of rain. I won’t get a chance to see how it turns out. 

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5 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Coaching at the HS level is a HUGE commitment. Not just for the coach but for his family as well. I loved coaching, I loved practices, being around kids, teaching, watching them develop, watching them become successful you adults. What I miss most are the relationships with the kids, I think being around kids keeps you young. I miss the alone time with just the coaching staff, after a game or practice, game planning, practice planning, sharing fellowship, etc.

You just reach a point where it’s like why am I doing this? The last year I coached we started the season on a hot streak, we were like 10-0 and ranked like 8th in the state. I had to meet with a parent who’s kid had started and played in every game, because the parent was unhappy about where the kid was playing. Long story short, I’m missing my own kid’s pretty successful college career to coach, and the resounding question in my mind is why am I dealing with this crap? I made up my mind during another such parent meeting and turned my resignation that night. 
 

I have had multiple chances to coach since, and as much as I would love do it, particularly with some of the people who’ve asked, I know what comes with it, and just decline. 
 

Coaching is the toughest job you’ll ever love. Unrealistic expectations, why isn’t my kid playing, why is my kid playing OF instead of IF, the social media posts (though I never had much issues with that) the massive amount of time away from family and friends, it just stacks up and people get tired of it. It is concerning to me, we are losing good young coaches across the board in all sports. 
 

A little caveat, last Thursday I had the plate for a big conference game that had championship implications. It was the best game I’ve seen all season, pitchers duel, 0-0 thru 7 innings. I personally had a great game, yes as an official you know when you walk off the field. In short it was FUN, which ultimately is why I’m there. However, thanks to one of the coaches, who starts bitching about “presenting the ball” in the bottom of the first inning, which is not a term that has been in the rule book in the 20 or so years I’ve been involved. And since he can’t get any satisfaction out of me on his made up term, it sets the tone for the whole night and by the third inning, we’ve degenerated to arguing balls and strikes. He just sucked all the fun out of it for everyone. The opposing catcher even asked at one point, what is that guys problem? I’m not going to lie, and I have shared with some AD’s I don’t know what my future in officiating is at this point. I haven’t even made up my mind whether I’m doing Football this fall or not yet, but I can assure you this, dealing with assholes is making the decision for me. FYI, I had to stop the game in the bottom of the 8th with the visitors up 1-0 because of rain. I won’t get a chance to see how it turns out. 

I have to ask, what on earth is “presenting the ball?”

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2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I have to ask, what on earth is “presenting the ball?”

I asked the same thing, and I think that’s what set him off. He went so far as to tell me it was a POE this year. I have heard the term over the years, mostly from old timers, I think it used to have something to do with slow-pitch  near as I can tell. 
This guy has a rep, I’ve had him before, he likes to ask a leading question and then he can argue, regardless of how you answer. He came up to me after the bottom of the first and asked “what are your thoughts on presenting the ball” to which I replied I have no thoughts, because I don’t have any idea what that means. And we were off….

 

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1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I asked the same thing, and I think that’s what set him off. He went so far as to tell me it was a POE this year. I have heard the term over the years, mostly from old timers, I think it used to have something to do with slow-pitch  near as I can tell. 
This guy has a rep, I’ve had him before, he likes to ask a leading question and then he can argue, regardless of how you answer. He came up to me after the bottom of the first and asked “what are your thoughts on presenting the ball” to which I replied I have no thoughts, because I don’t have any idea what that means. And we were off….

 

How much better is it to wear that white hat and stay out in the middle of the field, pretending you don’t hear the asinine comments, and trying not to laugh? 😂🤣😆

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2 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I asked the same thing, and I think that’s what set him off. He went so far as to tell me it was a POE this year. I have heard the term over the years, mostly from old timers, I think it used to have something to do with slow-pitch  near as I can tell. 
This guy has a rep, I’ve had him before, he likes to ask a leading question and then he can argue, regardless of how you answer. He came up to me after the bottom of the first and asked “what are your thoughts on presenting the ball” to which I replied I have no thoughts, because I don’t have any idea what that means. And we were off….

 

Is there a "sideline warning" type infraction that can be called in baseball/softball?  If I'm not mistaken football can go sideline warning - 15 yard unsportsmanlike - 15 + ejection.  

Of course the warning is only as good as the mindset of the coach.  I would take it as a sign to calm down.  Sounds like this coach might have taken it as a personal challenge, unfortunately. 

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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

I have to ask, what on earth is “presenting the ball?”

 

2 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I asked the same thing, and I think that’s what set him off. He went so far as to tell me it was a POE this year. I have heard the term over the years, mostly from old timers, I think it used to have something to do with slow-pitch  near as I can tell. 
This guy has a rep, I’ve had him before, he likes to ask a leading question and then he can argue, regardless of how you answer. He came up to me after the bottom of the first and asked “what are your thoughts on presenting the ball” to which I replied I have no thoughts, because I don’t have any idea what that means. And we were off….

 

My curiosity got to me ...everything I have found so far refers to what the catcher does. Watching pro baseball, the term used is "framing the pitch". Basically the catcher adjusts the glove position to make a pitch that is off the plate look like a strike. Maybe his beef was the opponent's catcher was really good at it??? 

 

My initial thought though was something along the lines of Ed Norton reading the golf instructions to Ralph Cramden "First, you address the ball". After a short discussion, Norton figures it out; steps up to the ball, doffs his hat, and says "hello ball". 

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13 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

Is there a "sideline warning" type infraction that can be called in baseball/softball?  If I'm not mistaken football can go sideline warning - 15 yard unsportsmanlike - 15 + ejection.  

Of course the warning is only as good as the mindset of the coach.  I would take it as a sign to calm down.  Sounds like this coach might have taken it as a personal challenge, unfortunately. 

Im not a big ultimatum guy, they never end well, and I assure you if I’m given an ultimatum I’m going to do the thing you told me not to do. That being said, I have adopted several techniques:

Coach do you care to repeat that?

Youve made your point it’s time to move on

Coach you need to go coach your team. 
 

In 40 years, the handful of coaches who excused themselves had it coming. I’ve always taken pride in the fact that things seldom degenerated to where we had an ejection. 
 

The other thing is having been a HC and an official, I totally get both sides.

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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

I have to ask, what on earth is “presenting the ball?”

Maybe this?:

image.thumb.png.5acb8710ec44ed3fab20693ba0260ccc.png

 

"Meaning he had the ball in this throwing hand when engaged with the rubber to present the ball to the batter and runner."

 

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2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Maybe this?:

image.thumb.png.5acb8710ec44ed3fab20693ba0260ccc.png

 

"Meaning he had the ball in this throwing hand when engaged with the rubber to present the ball to the batter and runner."

 

I was thinking something along these lines as well.  I vaguely remember when my younger sister pitched in the early/mid 90's that she was taught glove hand and pitching hand (with ball) dropped to her sides, then could bring them together to start her windup.  I assumed it was her coach's preference because that was the windup his daughter used.  She (his daughter) had pitched in the state finals in the 89-90 era when softball was in its IHSAA infancy. 

If it was a rule, it must have gone the way of the white softball. 

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19 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Maybe this?:

image.thumb.png.5acb8710ec44ed3fab20693ba0260ccc.png

 

"Meaning he had the ball in this throwing hand when engaged with the rubber to present the ball to the batter and runner."

 

I notice your reference says “him” and not to get into the pronoun thing, I assume this is from a men’s book. I don’t know if any youth fastpitch around, but I do know USA (formerly ASA) has different rules for men’s and women. For instance crow hopping is legal in the mens game and. It allowed in womens. This could also be in reference to Slow pitch. 

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1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

Is there a "sideline warning" type infraction that can be called in baseball/softball?  If I'm not mistaken football can go sideline warning - 15 yard unsportsmanlike - 15 + ejection.  

Of course the warning is only as good as the mindset of the coach.  I would take it as a sign to calm down.  Sounds like this coach might have taken it as a personal challenge, unfortunately. 

That is not the purpose of a sideline warning in football, and it shouldn’t be used “off label” in that fashion. A sideline warning is given when the coach is out of his designated position: either in the restricted area when the ball is dead, or behind the restraining line when it’s alive. A coach coming on to the field to argue a call is one of the specific instances of unsportsmanlike conduct by a nonplayer found in the rule book. When I was wearing the white hat, they could bark all they wanted (within reason) as long as they stayed where they were supposed to be. Crossing the sideline to complain, however, was dealt with swiftly and decisively.

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45 minutes ago, Bobref said:

That is not the purpose of a sideline warning in football, and it shouldn’t be used “off label” in that fashion. A sideline warning is given when the coach is out of his designated position: either in the restricted area when the ball is dead, or behind the restraining line when it’s alive. A coach coming on to the field to argue a call is one of the specific instances of unsportsmanlike conduct by a nonplayer found in the rule book. When I was wearing the white hat, they could bark all they wanted (within reason) as long as they stayed where they were supposed to be. Crossing the sideline to complain, however, was dealt with swiftly and decisively.

http://www.enigma-mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/9yZXe.gif

 

Edited by foxbat
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45 minutes ago, Bobref said:

That is not the purpose of a sideline warning in football, and it shouldn’t be used “off label” in that fashion. A sideline warning is given when the coach is out of his designated position: either in the restricted area when the ball is dead, or behind the restraining line when it’s alive. A coach coming on to the field to argue a call is one of the specific instances of unsportsmanlike conduct by a nonplayer found in the rule book. When I was wearing the white hat, they could bark all they wanted (within reason) as long as they stayed where they were supposed to be. Crossing the sideline to complain, however, was dealt with swiftly and decisively.

Thanks Bob...great explanation.  Could you get comfortable expanding the use of sideline warning in youth football to a  coach for to help prevent parents, family and other fans from "getting out of hand" as a method to help him own accountability to deal with the issue?  As you know, there is sometimes little space between and official and Mommy/Daddy just off the sidelines constantly yelling.  Thoughts??

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38 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Thanks Bob...great explanation.  Could you get comfortable expanding the use of sideline warning in youth football to a  coach for to help prevent parents, family and other fans from "getting out of hand" as a method to help him own accountability to deal with the issue?  As you know, there is sometimes little space between and official and Mommy/Daddy just off the sidelines constantly yelling.  Thoughts??

I think parents/fans getting out of hand at a youth game is an issue that should be handled at a league administrative level. In high school, it’s game management, usually an AD or assistant AD. In my experience, they are very willing to assume responsibility for addressing those matters.

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