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Conference Realignment - What's Coming in the Next Round?


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11 minutes ago, temptation said:

What separates those teams from BD and Brownsburg in your opinion?

I think Brownsburg is better than both Warren and BD but you'd have to be crazy at this point to trust Brownsburg in an elimination game. 

South will go through Cathedral/Center Grove and then North will go through the Carmel/Westfield winner and HSE. HSE dodged a huge bullet avoiding Sectional 4. 

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32 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I think Brownsburg is better than both Warren and BD but you'd have to be crazy at this point to trust Brownsburg in an elimination game. 

South will go through Cathedral/Center Grove and then North will go through the Carmel/Westfield winner and HSE. HSE dodged a huge bullet avoiding Sectional 4. 

This is exactly how I see it but playing devil’s advocate for a moment…what has HSE done to elevate themselves into this conversation in your opinion? 

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3 minutes ago, temptation said:

This is exactly how I see it but playing devil’s advocate for a moment…what has HSE done to elevate themselves into this conversation in your opinion? 

Think they're on the right trajectory. Michael Kelly is a very good coach and took over a program who had wildly underachieved the three seasons prior. Went 8-3 last year and honestly should have beaten Westfield last year in the sectional final, that was a brutal way to lose a football game. 

I put them as a contender simply because they avoided sectional 4 and if they are able to knock off the Carmel/Westfield winner (which isn't out of the question) they will be the 6A North representative come Thanksgiving Weekend.

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Think they're on the right trajectory. Michael Kelly is a very good coach and took over a program who had wildly underachieved the three seasons prior. Went 8-3 last year and honestly should have beaten Westfield last year in the sectional final, that was a brutal way to lose a football game. 

I put them as a contender simply because they avoided sectional 4 and if they are able to knock off the Carmel/Westfield winner (which isn't out of the question) they will be the 6A North representative come Thanksgiving Weekend.

I can get on board with this.

Next discussion question:  Is Fishers a step behind HSE?  If so, why?

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The next step in Conference Realignment will begin with the implosion of the Hoosier Heritage.  

Delta and Yorkville will leave and start a new conference that will include Muncie Central and Centerville.  Several others are also in the conversation.  Travel reduction is the key objective of the schools who are looking to come together.

Shelbyville is totally outclassed in the HHC and looking for a new , more competitive , home for their teams.  

Should Delta and Yorktown defect, you would also start to question why New castle would stick around.  

New Pal, Greenfield Central, Pendleton Heights and Mt Vernon are a solid Group of 4 who will be looking to add new members if/when these dominos start to fall.  

 

 

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48 minutes ago, temptation said:

I can get on board with this.

Next discussion question:  Is Fishers a step behind HSE?  If so, why?

It starts in the weightroom.  Fishers fell behind HSE and others in the HCC  during the pandemic.  Coaching turnover and a void in direction and leadership contributed to the lapse.  They are playing catchup now and you will find that they are probably the smallest and the slowest team in the conference.  

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A tremendous football conference could be a merger of the 4 HHC schools and the big PP schools of the Circle City Conference.

Brebeuf

Roncalli

Chatard

Guerin

Mt Vernon

New Pal

Greenfield Central

Pendleton heights

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59 minutes ago, temptation said:

I can get on board with this.

Next discussion question:  Is Fishers a step behind HSE?  If so, why?

Don't know the optics or inner-workings of either high school but yes fair to say HSE is the football school of the two. Both seem to have solid baseball programs who have each won state titles the last few years and basketball programs seem to be equal although Fishers has a to-be sophomore that is one of the best prospects in the country. I think Haralson has La Lumiere or Montverde written all over him, but should Fishers hang onto him, they'll be a major player in the state tournament the next few years. 

Edited by Footballking16
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3 hours ago, temptation said:

What separates those teams from BD and Brownsburg in your opinion?

Just observations I made while watching them last year.

3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

I think Brownsburg is better than both Warren and BD but you'd have to be crazy at this point to trust Brownsburg in an elimination game. 

South will go through Cathedral/Center Grove and then North will go through the Carmel/Westfield winner and HSE. HSE dodged a huge bullet avoiding Sectional 4. 

Yeah, I guess I left out Cathedral.  My bad.

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

It starts in the weightroom.  Fishers fell behind HSE and others in the HCC  during the pandemic.  Coaching turnover and a void in direction and leadership contributed to the lapse.  They are playing catchup now and you will find that they are probably the smallest and the slowest team in the conference.  

Didn’t both HSE and Fishers replace head coaches just prior to the pandemic or am I mistaken?

I’d also like to challenge your last statement (though it’s not an exact science) as Fishers finished third in the boys track conference meet and was the second highest finishing HCC school at the boys track and field state finals.

They finished in the top half of the conference in the 4x1 and won the 4x4.

Is there a disconnect between track and football at Fishers?

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25 minutes ago, temptation said:

Didn’t both HSE and Fishers replace head coaches just prior to the pandemic or am I mistaken?

I’d also like to challenge your last statement (though it’s not an exact science) as Fishers finished third in the boys track conference meet and was the second highest finishing HCC school at the boys track and field state finals.

They finished in the top half of the conference in the 4x1 and won the 4x4.

Is there a disconnect between track and football at Fishers?

That’s what I thought as well. Both schools got head coaches at the same time. Not sure what he is referring to when saying Covid made it difficult for fishers and not HSE. I’m over the pandemic being used as an excuse.

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On 5/16/2022 at 12:25 PM, crimsonace1 said:

Just a reminder for those playing along with DT's thought exercise - football is only one of 20 IHSAA-sanctioned sports and a school that may be struggling in football may still be a good fit in a conference in terms of geography, school population and competitiveness in other sports. 

If you don't think that football is the primary factor when schools choose a conference home, then you have about as much common sense and general understanding as crimsonface1

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5 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

That’s what I thought as well. Both schools got head coaches at the same time. Not sure what he is referring to when saying Covid made it difficult for fishers and not HSE. I’m over the pandemic being used as an excuse.

Coach Funk is on the record regarding the issue of weight training and strength development and the fact that his program is behind the curve.  Search "Funk" and you'll find it all here.  

https://www.facebook.com/Hoosier-High-School-Football-107360041590757/

5 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

That’s what I thought as well. Both schools got head coaches at the same time. Not sure what he is referring to when saying Covid made it difficult for fishers and not HSE. I’m over the pandemic being used as an excuse.

At this point, Id have to say that the HSE staff is overall stronger, deeper and more accountable than the Fishers staff.  

Assuming everything else is fairly equal, you give the edge to the Royals.  

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On 6/13/2022 at 10:14 AM, Footballking16 said:

I think Brownsburg is better than both Warren and BD but you'd have to be crazy at this point to trust Brownsburg in an elimination game. 

And yet Brownsburg is dropping Ben Davis after this year.

 

I've been watching this thread. I don't have much to add. I think a lot of the narrative around Warren Central sounds like the BD narrative in the late 2000's. Kirschner came in in 2007 after Tom Allen left. People were talking about diminishing returns on the Westside. 

BD went 7-4 in 2007 losing to Pike in the Sectional. In 2008, the Giants went 10-4 losing to CG in the Semi-State. They were highly-ranked in 2009, but the season unraveled quickly and the Giants finished 5-5. They were 6-4 in 2010 and people like Driven T and folks were writing the obit of the program. In 2011, Kirschner took a team with a former FB at QB to the Regional Championship Game against undefeated Carmel. Matt Brock set a new one-year passing record that year. Of course, then came the Kyle Castner years. 2012, 2013, and 2014...then the Reese Taylor years in 2015, 2016 and 2017. The 2017 team was one of the best ever to play in Indiana.

So, yeah, things ebb and flow in large programs. Sustained success is not a guarantee any more. 

Coaching changes and things are not really that surprising either to me. Kirschner wants people who work at his speed and who have his commitment. He's going to do things right, and he wants coaches that do too. I respect the man tremendously, and it may take some time, but Warren will succeed under him.

As far as why they're dropping CG, I have no idea. Those things happen for a number of reasons. It's my understanding that Coach Simmons doesn't want to drop CG at BD. Anyway...that's my 42 cents.

Edited by BDGiant93
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On 6/11/2022 at 8:52 AM, temptation said:

By 2030, the current MIC 6 schools (save for North Central in a few sports and BD/WC football) will be the equivalent of the current IPS athletic programs.

Don Carlisle is building a monster in the Ben Davis boys basketball program. 

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4 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Don Carlisle is building a monster in the Ben Davis boys basketball program. 

Basketball is in the process of eclipsing football as the premier sport in The MIC.  Another reason why Id like to see Tech join the conference.  

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4 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

And yet Brownsburg is dropping Ben Davis after this year.

 

I've been watching this thread. I don't have much to add. I think a lot of the narrative around Warren Central sounds like the BD narrative in the late 2000's. Kirschner came in in 2007 after Tom Allen left. People were talking about diminishing returns on the Westside. 

BD went 7-4 in 2007 losing to Pike in the Sectional. In 2008, the Giants went 10-4 losing to CG in the Semi-State. They were highly-ranked in 2009, but the season unraveled quickly and the Giants finished 5-5. They were 6-4 in 2010 and people like Driven T and folks were writing the obit of the program. In 2011, Kirschner took a team with a former FB at QB to the Regional Championship Game against undefeated Carmel. Matt Brock set a new one-year passing record that year. Of course, then came the Kyle Castner years. 2012, 2013, and 2014...then the Reese Taylor years in 2015, 2016 and 2017. The 2017 team was one of the best ever to play in Indiana.

So, yeah, things ebb and flow in large programs. Sustained success is not a guarantee any more. 

Coaching changes and things are not really that surprising either to me. Kirschner wants people who work at his speed and who have his commitment. He's going to do things right, and he wants coaches that do too. I respect the man tremendously, and it may take some time, but Warren will succeed under him.

As far as why they're dropping CG, I have no idea. Those things happen for a number of reasons. It's my understanding that Coach Simmons doesn't want to drop CG at BD. Anyway...that's my 42 cents.

I'm not completely writing off Warren Central or Ben Davis or leaving them for dead. I'm just convinced the window where we can expect Warren Central and Ben Davis to automatically be state title contenders every single year has closed. There will be years where both BD and WC have special classes with good talent who absolutely can and may even win it all, but there's too many other programs who have closed the talent gap.

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2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

I'm not completely writing off Warren Central or Ben Davis or leaving them for dead. I'm just convinced the window where we can expect Warren Central and Ben Davis to automatically be state title contenders every single year has closed. There will be years where both BD and WC have special classes with good talent who absolutely can and may even win it all, but there's too many other programs who have closed the talent gap.

Spot on.

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

Spot on.

Be interesting to see how dominant CG can be over the next few years. They’re clearly the cream of the crop in 6A but even the ardent of CG supporters have to admit the last two senior classes contained some generational talent. CG may come back to Earth and that would open things up and make 6A interesting.

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11 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Be interesting to see how dominant CG can be over the next few years. They’re clearly the cream of the crop in 6A but even the ardent of CG supporters have to admit the last two senior classes contained some generational talent. CG may come back to Earth and that would open things up and make 6A interesting.

Agree again, but the immediate dismissal of CG by some and even the term “rebuild” being used is laughable.

A step back?  Hell yes.  But still good enough to win the whole damn thing.

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13 hours ago, temptation said:

Spot on.

Disagree. Not with those enrollments. Ben Davis and Warren Central have enough talent in the halls for a good coach to have them contending every single year. 

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