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Conference Realignment - What's Coming in the Next Round?


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8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

IF****

IF high enrollment and low ses WERE the two primary factors for having a successful program you wouldn't see so many 6A schools with 3000+ kids and low SES numbers having programs as bad as they are. Clearly they aren't the two primary factors.

Re-read what I said and that get back to me on who is being dense. 

You're hopeless. There is no sense going round and round with you here. You win? lol

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1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Wait a minute! Every time I bring up the desirability of a playoff qualification system, because the “all in” tournament devalues the regular season, I’m told I’m crazy because “every game matters,” and “there’s no such thing as a meaningless game.” The “all in” tournament breeds exactly the attitude described above … which makes Indiana high school football less than what it could be.

Don't go overboard and I sure didn't mean to light this one up again.....

I was exaggarating a bit.  Of course teams want to win every game, and conference championships do matter.  But no one wants to be playing their best football at the beginning of the season...no one.  Keeping this conversation in context, I was responding to a given year that was quoted as a down year....thanks to the current system that recognizes improvement with a team, that team that faced a gauntlet earlier in the season and took their lumps, developed and went all the way to the 6A state championship game, almost pulling off a championship.  

If anything, that example smacks your theory right in the face.....and I would contend CG demonstrating improvement and playing in the state final, makes Indiana football far better than if they had been eliminated from the playoffs and was sitting at home.

Edited by Bash Riprock
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3 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Don't go overboard and I sure didn't mean to light this one up again.....

I was exaggarating a bit.  Of course teams want to win every game, and conference championships do matter.  But no one wants to be playing their best football at the beginning of the season...no one.  Keeping this conversation in context, I was responding to a given year that was quoted as a down year....thanks to the current system that recognizes improvement with a team, that team that faced a gauntlet earlier in the season and took their lumps, developed and went all the way to the 6A state championship game, almost pulling off a championship.  

If anything, that example smacks your theory right in the face.....and I would contend CG demonstrating improvement and playing in the state final, makes Indiana football far better than if they had been eliminated from the playoffs and we sitting at home.

Using that particular year for Center Grove, they would have made every single postseason format that effectively cuts the field in half using some kind of combination of record, SOS, and opponent SOS. CG was a top 10-15 Sagarin team the entire year despite the slow start. 

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Just now, Footballking16 said:

Using that particular year for Center Grove, they would have made every single postseason format that effectively cuts the field in half using some kind of combination of record, SOS, and opponent SOS. CG was a top 10-15 Sagarin team the entire year despite the slow start. 

Perhaps they would based on criteria established today....I haven't seen it.  But they sure wouldn't have made based upon the criteria back during my Indiana HS days....that I'm sure.

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1 minute ago, Bash Riprock said:

Don't go overboard and I sure didn't mean to light this one up again.....

I was exaggarating a bit.  Of course teams want to win every game, and conference championships do matter.  But no one wants to be playing their best football at the beginning of the season...no one.  Keeping this conversation in context, I was responding to a given year that was quoted as a down year....thanks to the current system that recognizes improvement with a team, that team that faced a gauntlet earlier in the season and took their lumps, developed and went all the way to the 6A state championship game, almost pulling off a championship.  

If anything, that example smacks your theory right in the face.....and I would contend CG demonstrating improvement and playing in the state final, makes Indiana football far better than if they had been eliminated from the playoffs and we sitting at home.

I’ve got my handkerchief out, dabbing at the tears in my eyes at the great story of the 8-6 team that almost won a state championship. But as a counter to my argument, it fails miserably.

First, last time I looked the last team left standing this year will be crowned the “state champ for the 2022 season,” not the “2022 single elimination tournament held at the conclusion of the season champ.”

More importantly, whatever makes you think that CG’s team wouldn’t have made a playoff in which the top 1/2 of each class qualifies? This is simply a rehash of the “Northwood 2005” argument — that has been repeatedly debunked on these pages.

Besides, perhaps if those early season games counted toward playoff qualification, CG would have found a way to win a few more. Nothing like urgency to bring out the best in a team. Too bad our system doesn’t provide for that sort of intensity all season, instead of just the last 6 weeks. A lost opportunity.

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5 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Perhaps they would based on criteria established today....I haven't seen it.  But they sure wouldn't have made based upon the criteria back during my Indiana HS days....that I'm sure.

Right and the IHSAA took the easy out and went from a bad situation with the cluster format to nearly a worse with the all-in. Cluster and all-in are on complete ends of the spectrum, there is a middle ground somewhere in-between. I think all but two states have figured it out. 

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5 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Perhaps they would based on criteria established today....I haven't seen it.  But they sure wouldn't have made based upon the criteria back during my Indiana HS days....that I'm sure.

That the cluster system, or it’s various permutations, was actually a “cluster ****” is not a reason to reject a “top 1/2” qualification format. In fact, the IHSAA had the right idea, but the implementation was poor. Not enough teams in the playoffs. In a “top half” system, that problem goes away.

In a nutshell, if you can’t rate in the top 50% of your class, you don’t deserve to play for a state title.

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Just now, Bobref said:

That the cluster system, or it’s various permutations, was actually a “cluster ****” is not a reason to reject a “top 1/2” qualification format. In fact, the IHSAA had the right idea, but the implementation was poor. Not enough teams in the playoffs. In a “top half” system, that problem goes away.

In a nutshell, if you can’t rate in the top 50% of your class, you don’t deserve to play for a state title.

Agreed

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10 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I’ve got my handkerchief out, dabbing at the tears in my eyes at the great story of the 8-6 team that almost won a state championship. But as a counter to my argument, it fails miserably.

First, last time I looked the last team left standing this year will be crowned the “state champ for the 2022 season,” not the “2022 single elimination tournament held at the conclusion of the season champ.”

More importantly, whatever makes you think that CG’s team wouldn’t have made a playoff in which the top 1/2 of each class qualifies? This is simply a rehash of the “Northwood 2005” argument — that has been repeatedly debunked on these pages.

Besides, perhaps if those early season games counted toward playoff qualification, CG would have found a way to win a few more. Nothing like urgency to bring out the best in a team. Too bad our system doesn’t provide for that sort of intensity all season, instead of just the last 6 weeks. A lost opportunity.

you are going to feel the way you feel based on your personal experiences, and I the same.  I lived the old format here in Indiana.  I understand the disappointment first hand for a 7-2 team.  Now, I realize today's criteria may be significantly different.  

CG was a very young team that faced an absolute gauntlet their first 4 games...you know nothing about the team and their abilities over those games.  But they sure learned and developed.  Urgency...that's funny.  You obviously don't know anything about Coach Moore and his program.

I'm not playing this old game with you...quite frankly, that horse is gone and its boring.  And if you need to pull out the handkerchief and dab the tears from your eyes, try brushing your teeth....

 

Edited by Bash Riprock
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4 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

you are going to feel the way you feel based on your personal experiences, and I the same.  I lived the old format here in Indiana.  I understand the disappointment first hand for a 7-2 team.  Now, I realize today's criteria may be significantly different.  

CG was a very young team that faced an absolute gauntlet their first 4 games...you know nothing about the team and their abilities over those games.  But they sure learned and developed.  Urgency...that's funny.  You obviously don't know anything about Coach Moore and his program.

I'm not playing this old game with you...quite frankly, those horse is gone and its boring.  And if you need to pull out the handkerchief and dab the tears from your eyes, try brushing your teeth....

 

Reminds of the kid who was losing the pickup game, so he takes his ball and goes home. And if by “boring,” you mean it’s too complex a concept for you to understand, I find myself agreeing with you for once.

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43 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Reminds of the kid who was losing the pickup game, so he takes his ball and goes home. And if by “boring,” you mean it’s too complex a concept for you to understand, I find myself agreeing with you for once.

I wouldn’t get too comfortable.  In today’s educational society buzzwords like equity, inclusion and representation are being utilized more and more.

Hell, soon not only will every team get in, we may start giving teams points on the scoreboard before kickoff or even letting teams play with 12-13 guys in the name of fairness.

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5 minutes ago, temptation said:

I wouldn’t get too comfortable.  In today’s educational society buzzwords like equity, inclusion and representation are being utilized more and more.

Hell, soon not only will every team get in, we may start giving teams points on the scoreboard before kickoff or even letting teams play with 12-13 guys in the name of fairness.

Muda will be awarding points to teams who punt on 3rd down up big in the 2nd half.  

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1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Reminds of the kid who was losing the pickup game, so he takes his ball and goes home. And if by “boring,” you mean it’s too complex a concept for you to understand, I find myself agreeing with you for once.

Hey Waldorf! Think what you want.....rather be that kid than a bitter old dude that can't let something go....

You're hi-jacking a thread with the same old song.....and I just don't want to go down your rabbit hole.  But nice closing try with the "you're not smart enough" to debate with me.....

Original puppets from The Muppets to be auctioned

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2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Center Grove wouldn’t be where they are today without its youth program.

Coach Moore. A diamond in the rough. Coaching is the third ingredient to a successful program, no one is denying that. But to ask every coach in the state to duplicate Moore's passion would be irresponsible................on a high school coach's pay scale. 

 

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6 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

So the equation for success is ......  Large enrollments x $$ = automatic success and championships.

Nothing else matters.....who knew it was so simple? 

79% if we are being accurate. I think any coach in the state would be happy to start the season with those odds.

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

Coach Moore. A diamond in the rough. Coaching is the third ingredient to a successful program, no one is denying that. But to ask every coach in the state to duplicate Moore's passion would be irresponsible................on a high school coach's pay scale. 

 

“A high school coaches’ pay scale”, lol.

Just stop.  Dude makes over 6 figures at the end of the day.

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1 minute ago, temptation said:

“A high school coaches’ pay scale”, lol.

Just stop.  Dude makes over 6 figures at the end of the day.

Then he should be producing championships. I don't think six figures is the norm for 99% of programs statewide. 

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

Coach Moore. A diamond in the rough. Coaching is the third ingredient to a successful program, no one is denying that. But to ask every coach in the state to duplicate Moore's passion would be irresponsible................on a high school coach's pay scale. 

 

How instrumental was Coach Moore in not only establishing but ramping up CG’s bantam program? I don’t know the answer but I’ll guarantee you Coach Moore’s contributions to the CG football program and community go exponentially further than just X’s and O’s. Don’t kid yourself.

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2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

How instrumental was Coach Moore in not only establishing but ramping up CG’s bantam program? I don’t know the answer but I’ll guarantee you Coach Moore’s contributions to the CG football program and community go exponentially further than just X’s and O’s. Don’t kid yourself.

It’s “passion” man.  Come on.

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16 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

How instrumental was Coach Moore in not only establishing but ramping up CG’s bantam program? I don’t know the answer but I’ll guarantee you Coach Moore’s contributions to the CG football program and community go exponentially further than just X’s and O’s. Don’t kid yourself.

Did I imply differently?

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