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Conference Realignment - What's Coming in the Next Round?


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On 5/20/2022 at 5:18 PM, HHF said:

Terre haute will not build a mega 6A type high school.  They are already on an island and a mega school would further isolate them from their neighbors and force them into independence.  Enrollment is dropping and eventually both THS and THN will be approaching 4A status, with puts them in line with the other 3a and 4A schools in the area and likely WIC membership.  

You continue to look at this through a high school sports prism. The issue won't be whether or not they are isolated or want to fit into a conference. It will be funding and whether or not they can afford, as a district, to keep all the schools they have open with less funding.

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1 minute ago, BDGiant93 said:

You continue to look at this through a high school sports prism. The issue won't be whether or not they are isolated or want to fit into a conference. It will be funding and whether or not they can afford, as a district, to keep all the schools they have open with less funding.

Lets assume that eventually the voters approve the funding needed to fix the schools.

When you make a decision, go big (one mega school) or small (multiple 3A size schools.)

Im suggesting that the smaller school model would fit the community better and serve its long term academic and athletic interest more suitably.  

 

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16 minutes ago, HHF said:

Lets assume that eventually the voters approve the funding needed to fix the schools.

When you make a decision, go big (one mega school) or small (multiple 3A size schools.)

Im suggesting that the smaller school model would fit the community better and serve its long term academic and athletic interest more suitably.  

 

That's fair.

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14 minutes ago, HHF said:

Lets assume that eventually the voters approve the funding needed to fix the schools.

When you make a decision, go big (one mega school) or small (multiple 3A size schools.)

Im suggesting that the smaller school model would fit the community better and serve its long term academic and athletic interest more suitably.  

 

Being in a district in that setting, I disagree to an extent. You cannot apply the same mindset across the entire state I look at course offerings that schools like Homestead and Carroll have and see that there are so many more classes students can take. In multi school district, far too often, the mindset is if one school has something, all the schools have to have it. Or if one school wants or needs to do something different, the answer is no because the other schools don't have it. Multi school districts divide too many resources in attempts to balance things out too thin; giving little to each, and often leaving each school short changed. 
Like anything, there are unintended consequences as well. I know down sides to having one large school. Some kids can get lost or feel overwhelmed around so many. Travel increases for kids in outlying areas, but in the long run, I think the positives outweigh the negatives.........at least for our district. I can easily see that in more rural areas, the problems I mentioned are more magnified, especially travel. But it is rural schools that feel the biggest negative hit in a severely flawed funding formula that the State uses. 

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Athletics are very important in this part of the state.  I think the big TH schools feel cut off from their neighbors because they have outgrown them Terre Haute North and South downsized to 4A schools would fit nicely in The WIC.  I think this is the direction they will eventually take

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13 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Being in a district in that setting, I disagree to an extent. You cannot apply the same mindset across the entire state I look at course offerings that schools like Homestead and Carroll have and see that there are so many more classes students can take. In multi school district, far too often, the mindset is if one school has something, all the schools have to have it. Or if one school wants or needs to do something different, the answer is no because the other schools don't have it. Multi school districts divide too many resources in attempts to balance things out too thin; giving little to each, and often leaving each school short changed. 
Like anything, there are unintended consequences as well. I know down sides to having one large school. Some kids can get lost or feel overwhelmed around so many. Travel increases for kids in outlying areas, but in the long run, I think the positives outweigh the negatives.........at least for our district. I can easily see that in more rural areas, the problems I mentioned are more magnified, especially travel. But it is rural schools that feel the biggest negative hit in a severely flawed funding formula that the State uses. 

This will also become even more prevalent as resources become tighter.  With strained resources, students outside of +/- 1 standard deviation start to suffer more.  As you mentioned, in some of the smaller schools, it's not even the +/- 1 standard deviation that get the resources.  I recall a family of a kid that I coached many years back that ended up transferring to a 5A school because, as his sister with special needs got to school age, the family needed to be somewhere that could provide those services.  I know another family in town where their kids are split between the local p/p and the public schools because one of their kids is gifted and talented and that academic program was not available at the p/p when he started in the program as an elementary school kid.  These are situations where it pretty much either existed or didn't, but as you point out, there can certainly be a problem where it's not 0/1 but somewhere in between and spread out too much ... not quite 0, but much farther away from 1.

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On 5/18/2022 at 2:39 PM, Indiana Fan said:

Another interesting school for the near future is Whiteland. Growing incredibly quickly and could possibly get to the size of a Center Grove within 5-6 years (only about a 10 minute drive between Whiteland and CG). You have to think that it would outgrow the Mid-State conference. Not sure how that plays out, but do keep in mind CG will either try to get back in the HCC or create a new conference. From very good sources, I believe a new conference will be formed within 5 years and CG will be at the helm of it. Maybe Whiteland will try and continue that growth and look for something larger.

Right now, here's the Mid-State

  • Decatur Central: 1812 - solid 5A
  • Franklin: 1571 (and growing fast) - 5A
  • Greenwood: 1193 (and holding at that number - Greenwood is largely built-out) - 4A for good
  • Martinsville: 1286 (and not really growing) - 4A for the long haul
  • Mooresville: 1391 (room for some growth, but it doesn't seem to be as dramatic) - 4A for a while
  • Perry Meridian: 2385 - 6A
  • Plainfield: 1823 (and growing fast) - 5A but likely 6A within a few cycles 
  • Whiteland: 2021 (and growing fast) - 5A but will soon be 6A

Whiteland is on the cusp of 6A, and there is a LOT of unbuilt land in Clark Township right off I-65 that will explode soon. I wouldn't be shocked to see Whiteland be 3000+ in a decade. 

Meanwhile, you also have Conference Indiana

  • Bloomington North: 1664 - 5A 
  • Bloomington South: 1733 - 5A
  • Columbus North - 2219 - 6A
  • Southport - 2391 - 6A
  • TH North - 1575 - 5A
  • TH South - 1651 - 5A

And some other schools that could be in the mix

  • Center Grove - 2754 - 5A (independent)
  • Franklin Central - 3223 - 6A (and growing very fast)

Long-term, I think what we could see is some shuffling where the larger schools in the Mid-State and Conference Indiana join forces (and possibly add CG/FC, although I wouldn't be surprised if the MIC is a long-term destination for FC just because of geography). 

We could see something like this

Center Grove
Whiteland
Columbus North
Decatur Central
Franklin
Plainfield
Southport
Perry Meridian

And 
Martinsville
Mooresville
TH North
TH South
Bloomington North
Bloomington South

In this scenario, Franklin, Plainfield & Greenwood are the wild cards - I can see Franklin growing to the point where it fits better in the 5A/6A league. Plainfield fits better in with Martinsville/Mooresville geographically but will likely top 2K students soon. 

Greenwood is basically left homeless by this shuffle. I expect to see the Woodmen make a run for the Hoosier Heritage Conference, especially if Shelbyville or Delta decides to go to different leagues and they need an eighth team. They don't really fit geographically, but they do fit enrollment-wise (at least for now).

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On 5/16/2022 at 12:27 PM, crimsonace1 said:

Connersville & Rushville fit well geographically and school-wise in the EIAC. There's really no place else for either to go. 

In Connersville's case, they struggle in football but they are annually one of the top teams in the league in basketball (which is the sport that drives the bus and pays the bills in that community) and generally competitive in baseball, softball, et al. Rushville is generally a title contender in girls basketball (again, a major sport in that town). 

Benton Central generally has good basketball and baseball teams, so again, a decent fit even if they struggle in football. 

I concur.  BC is a basketball only school, nothing else matters.

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1 hour ago, Whiting89 said:

Being from the region I don’t know much about rest of the state, is it feasible for Bloomington to consolidate and have a mega school? 

I'm also from the Region, so I'm going to stick my neck out.  Bloomington, of course, is in Monroe County.  Other than Edgewood, which I believe in the western part of the county, those are the only three.  Therefore it would quite a logistical challenge.

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On 5/18/2022 at 2:39 PM, Indiana Fan said:

Another interesting school for the near future is Whiteland. Growing incredibly quickly and could possibly get to the size of a Center Grove within 5-6 years (only about a 10 minute drive between Whiteland and CG). You have to think that it would outgrow the Mid-State conference. Not sure how that plays out, but do keep in mind CG will either try to get back in the HCC or create a new conference. From very good sources, I believe a new conference will be formed within 5 years and CG will be at the helm of it. Maybe Whiteland will try and continue that growth and look for something larger.

Whiteland's school district is huge and largely undeveloped.  Decades ago Clark Township High School was separate.  As the farm land gets developed I wonder if it will again be separated.

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On 5/31/2022 at 11:45 AM, crimsonace1 said:

We could see something like this

Center Grove
Whiteland
Columbus North
Decatur Central
Franklin
Plainfield
Southport
Perry Meridian

Honestly I would rather see CG stay independent.

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Fantasy booking some Central Indiana conferences a few years down the road.  None of these will work out this way.  Just some ideas.  For football, Center Grove could still play Warren Central week 1, Carmel week 2, and Cathedral week 9 if they are in a 7 team conference as listed below.

Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference

Ben Davis

Indianapolis Arsenal Tech

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

North Central

Pike

Warren Central

 

Hoosier Crossroads Conference

Avon

Brownsburg

Fishers

Hamilton Southeastern

Noblesville

Westfield

Zionsville

 

Conference Indiana

Center Grove

Franklin Central

Columbus North

Southport

Decatur Central

Plainfield

Whiteland

 

Mid-Indiana Conference

Mooresville

Martinsville

Terre Haute North

Terre Haute South

Bloomington South

Bloomington North

Franklin Community

Perry Meridian

 

Hoosier Heritage Conference

Shelbyville

Greenwood

Mount Vernon

Pendleton Heights

Greenfield-Central

New Palestine

New Castle

Beech Grove

 

Indiana Crossroads Conference

Speedway

Monrovia

Ritter

Lutheran

Triton Central

Indian Creek

Covenant Christian

Scecina

 

North Central Conference - West

Lafayette Jeff

McCutcheon

Harrison (WL)

West Lafayette

Logansport

Kokomo

Western

Lebanon

 

North Central Conference - East

Marion

Mississinewa

Delta

Yorktown

Jay County

Muncie Central

Anderson

Richmond

 

Independent

Carmel

Indianapolis Cathedral

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2 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

Fantasy booking some Central Indiana conferences a few years down the road.  None of these will work out this way.  Just some ideas.  For football, Center Grove could still play Warren Central week 1, Carmel week 2, and Cathedral week 9 if they are in a 7 team conference as listed below.

Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference

Ben Davis

Indianapolis Arsenal Tech

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

North Central

Pike

Warren Central

 

Hoosier Crossroads Conference

Avon

Brownsburg

Fishers

Hamilton Southeastern

Noblesville

Westfield

Zionsville

 

Conference Indiana

Center Grove

Franklin Central

Columbus North

Southport

Decatur Central

Plainfield

Whiteland

 

Mid-Indiana Conference

Mooresville

Martinsville

Terre Haute North

Terre Haute South

Bloomington South

Bloomington North

Franklin Community

Perry Meridian

 

Hoosier Heritage Conference

Shelbyville

Greenwood

Mount Vernon

Pendleton Heights

Greenfield-Central

New Palestine

New Castle

Beech Grove

 

Indiana Crossroads Conference

Speedway

Monrovia

Ritter

Lutheran

Triton Central

Indian Creek

Covenant Christian

Scecina

 

North Central Conference - West

Lafayette Jeff

McCutcheon

Harrison (WL)

West Lafayette

Logansport

Kokomo

Western

Lebanon

 

North Central Conference - East

Marion

Mississinewa

Delta

Yorktown

Jay County

Muncie Central

Anderson

Richmond

 

Independent

Carmel

Indianapolis Cathedral

I  think it is funny how people are trying to put Center Grove with schools like Whiteland and Dc and Fc just to name a few.  This schools want nothing to do with CG in football and in fact most sports in general..   Whiteland all ready drop CG a few years back and DC could have extended the series but did not want to.

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1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

I  think it is funny how people are trying to put Center Grove with schools like Whiteland and Dc and Fc just to name a few.  This schools want nothing to do with CG in football and in fact most sports in general..   Whiteland all ready drop CG a few years back and DC could have extended the series but did not want to.

I get that, which is why I said “None of these will work out this way.”  There are lots of things that would stand in the way of some of these conferences changing and looking like what I listed.  There are more realistic changes I could see happening, and changes I would prefer to see instead of what I posted.  Here are a couple examples:

Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference

Avon

Ben Davis

Franklin Central

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

North Central

Pike

Warren Central

 

Hoosier Crossroads Conference

Brownsburg

Carmel

Center Grove

Fishers

Hamilton Southeastern

Noblesville

Westfield

Zionsville

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35 minutes ago, HoopsCoach said:

I get that, which is why I said “None of these will work out this way.”  There are lots of things that would stand in the way of some of these conferences changing and looking like what I listed.  There are more realistic changes I could see happening, and changes I would prefer to see instead of what I posted.  Here are a couple examples:

Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference

Avon

Ben Davis

Franklin Central

Lawrence Central

Lawrence North

North Central

Pike

Warren Central

 

Hoosier Crossroads Conference

Brownsburg

Carmel

Center Grove

Fishers

Hamilton Southeastern

Noblesville

Westfield

Zionsville

Not being from the "Indy Area".  But this seems extremely plausible. 

I am also assuming that you are taking into account the TOTALITY of the other athletic/academic programs when you made this suggestion?

 

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6 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

I  think it is funny how people are trying to put Center Grove with schools like Whiteland and Dc and Fc just to name a few.  This schools want nothing to do with CG in football and in fact most sports in general..   Whiteland all ready drop CG a few years back and DC could have extended the series but did not want to.

Heard from multiple people that Warren central will be removing CG from their football schedule beginning next year. It is from the Warren central side of things that they do not want to play Cg after this year.

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6 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Heard from multiple people that Warren central will be removing CG from their football schedule beginning next year. It is from the Warren central side of things that they do not want to play Cg after this year.

My how the mighty have fallen…

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4 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

Heard from multiple people that Warren central will be removing CG from their football schedule beginning next year. It is from the Warren central side of things that they do not want to play Cg after this year.

The Warriors pretty much said : Screw you Center Grove!!!

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What is everyone's beef with Center Grove? It's my understanding that the MIC didn't want them because they dominated the country club sports and now they've taken over football. But why not schedule them as a non-conference opponent?

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2 hours ago, BTF said:

What is everyone's beef with Center Grove? It's my understanding that the MIC didn't want them because they dominated the country club sports and now they've taken over football. But why not schedule them as a non-conference opponent?

Same 'reasons' that Carroll and Homestead aren't FULL members of the SAC.... 

Domination would ensue in the country club sports/academic events/etc..  Not many one outside of those 2 would get 'patches' on their letter jackets.  

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1 hour ago, Yuccaguy said:

Same 'reasons' that Carroll and Homestead aren't FULL members of the SAC.... 

Domination would ensue in the country club sports/academic events/etc..  Not many one outside of those 2 would get 'patches' on their letter jackets.  

Spot on.

3 hours ago, BTF said:

What is everyone's beef with Center Grove? It's my understanding that the MIC didn't want them because they dominated the country club sports and now they've taken over football. But why not schedule them as a non-conference opponent?

Your understanding is correct but that’s not how it’s being spun.  The “MIC 6” are attempting to control the narrative here and garner sympathy and public support when in fact they are sick and tired of getting their teeth kicked in.

No other explanation.

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4 hours ago, BTF said:

What is everyone's beef with Center Grove? It's my understanding that the MIC didn't want them because they dominated the country club sports and now they've taken over football. But why not schedule them as a non-conference opponent?

Have you ever dealt with those people?

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