Mercy rule a few years

[Trojanmp52]

With us having a few years with the mercy rule now,  what are people thoughts on it and how it helping or hurting the game?

my two cents for what it is worth is in playoffs love it the way it is.  Regular season not so much as the way it is now.  This is how I would like to see it change.

1. Change the points from 35 to 42 at half, but still keep it at 35 for the 4th

2 have a different mercy rule for each class or group like 1-4 and 5-6 and I would be ok with making 1-4 the way we have it now and 5-6 the way I have above.  I know it will asked what about a team in class 4 plays a team in 5 what do you do with different mercy rules?  My though would be you go with the lower class school rule since I am basing this on my idea on team size and kids that would get to play

3 no mercy rule for freshman and Jv games  those games are already shorter 
 

 

[Impartial_Observer]

Our experience thus far has been favorable. I would not be opposed to some sort of first half trigger. 

[Trojanmp52]

1 minute ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Our experience thus far has been favorable. I would not be opposed to some sort of first half trigger. 

Like 42 points at any time you do not have to what till half

[BTF]

15 minutes ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Like 42 points at any time you do not have to what till half

I'm good with 35 pts. No sense in rubbing salt in the wound. 

[CoachVeatch]

It's been great! It expedites miserable situations. Whether you're on the giving or receiving end of the butt kicking. I've not heard a coach in our area have a bad thing to say about it. 

[oldtimeqb]

The only minor tweak I have might be 42 (or 35 + ball). I think a team trailing 35-0 and receiving the second half KO should get a shot.

But once it starts, I like the running clock rules. Timeouts and scores are the only stoppages I think. A team up 40 should never have to throw the starting D back in for a goal line stand to keep the clock running. That would be ridiculous. 
 

[BDGiant93]

1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

With us having a few years with the mercy rule now,  what are people thoughts on it and how it helping or hurting the game?

my two cents for what it is worth is in playoffs love it the way it is.  Regular season not so much as the way it is now.  This is how I would like to see it change.

1. Change the points from 35 to 42 at half, but still keep it at 35 for the 4th

2 have a different mercy rule for each class or group like 1-4 and 5-6 and I would be ok with making 1-4 the way we have it now and 5-6 the way I have above.  I know it will asked what about a team in class 4 plays a team in 5 what do you do with different mercy rules?  My though would be you go with the lower class school rule since I am basing this on my idea on team size and kids that would get to play

3 no mercy rule for freshman and Jv games  those games are already shorter 
 

 

No need to make it more complex than it needs to be. I have seen both sides of the coin. If you get down 35 in the second half, that's plenty. Let's get it over with. 

[Old Man High Pants]

I was sitting in the stands for a game last season where parents of players on the winning team were literally yelling at their own sons to fall down so they wouldn't score again so quickly! The current rule should be expanded to any time in the game. I don't think I've ever seen a team down by 35 come back and win it. 

If we're trying to end blowouts quicker there's no reason to wait. Lawrenceburg beat Rushville 91-12 last year! And that's not even the game I was referencing above. If you want to make it 42 instead of 35 doesn't matter to me. But we need it in the first half.

 

[Whiting89]

Hurting anything that reduces playing time isn’t helping anyone. 

[Muda69]

15 hours ago, Old Man High Pants said:

Lawrenceburg beat Rushville 91-12 last year!

 

October 17, 2008. 96-0. Never forget.

 

[Trojanmp52]

52 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

October 17, 2008. 96-0. Never forget.

 

Yes that was a good game

[crimsonace1]

On 5/26/2022 at 4:55 PM, Old Man High Pants said:

I was sitting in the stands for a game last season where parents of players on the winning team were literally yelling at their own sons to fall down so they wouldn't score again so quickly! The current rule should be expanded to any time in the game. I don't think I've ever seen a team down by 35 come back and win it. 

If we're trying to end blowouts quicker there's no reason to wait. Lawrenceburg beat Rushville 91-12 last year! And that's not even the game I was referencing above. If you want to make it 42 instead of 35 doesn't matter to me. But we need it in the first half.

 

Remember, you're getting reps for guys, too. A team that has a lot of mercy-rule games won't get a ton of Friday-night reps - and a struggling team needs those reps to get better (while a good team may need them to fine-tune some things).

If you're going to invoke it in the first half, then the points threshold needs to be something like 42 or 49 points. 

The mercy rule basically means each team gets one possession (maybe two) once it's invoked. I'm fine with the way it's used. It provides an opportunity to get the games over quicker while still allowing players to get a reasonable number of snaps on each side of the ball. 

[Old Man High Pants]

4 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

Remember, you're getting reps for guys, too. A team that has a lot of mercy-rule games won't get a ton of Friday-night reps - and a struggling team needs those reps to get better (while a good team may need them to fine-tune some things).

If you're going to invoke it in the first half, then the points threshold needs to be something like 42 or 49 points. 

The mercy rule basically means each team gets one possession (maybe two) once it's invoked. I'm fine with the way it's used. It provides an opportunity to get the games over quicker while still allowing players to get a reasonable number of snaps on each side of the ball. 

I don't buy into the reps thing. I've been on both sides of the mercy rule. The winning team is hoping to get the game over without getting any of their guys injured and the losing team is just wanting to get out of there. Most teams sub down anyways once it starts, that's what JV & Frosh games are for.

A team getting mercy ruled multiple games who wants more Friday night reps is a team that needs to get more reps in the off season so that it doesn't happen. Never hear the argument that baseball teams getting 10 run ruled are losing at bats.

I don't care what the point total is but there are still too many games ending in 50 plus, 60 plus, 70 plus win margins to not get it going in the first half.

[Bash Riprock]

On 5/31/2022 at 4:12 PM, Old Man High Pants said:

I don't buy into the reps thing. I've been on both sides of the mercy rule. The winning team is hoping to get the game over without getting any of their guys injured and the losing team is just wanting to get out of there. Most teams sub down anyways once it starts, that's what JV & Frosh games are for.

A team getting mercy ruled multiple games who wants more Friday night reps is a team that needs to get more reps in the off season so that it doesn't happen. Never hear the argument that baseball teams getting 10 run ruled are losing at bats.

I don't care what the point total is but there are still too many games ending in 50 plus, 60 plus, 70 plus win margins to not get it going in the first half.

I respect various opinions and see both sides.

I have a very different perspective on the reps impact.  Many years ago, had a son that was a soph on a 5A state championship team.  Because they were very good and opened up leads sometimes pretty quickly, he got tons of experience getting friday night reps in the 2nd half against starting lineups and second string players.  There is no doubt that experience helped him prepare to be a 2 years starter for that program his junior and senior years.  Playing against freshman and other sophs during Saturday's JV game did not offer that caliber of experience.  Was it essential?  Perhaps not, as the majority of his development came in practice against older state championship caliber players.  But was it a plus for his development beyond playing JV ball?  Absolutely.

I guess I am old school and during my days, played on both ends of wide score margins.  I survived and wasn't harmed long term to experience some beat downs.  We all know life itself will offer some beat downs, and calling time out or simply ending it early isn't always or even typically an option.  

I thought your 10 run rule in baseball was a good comment....but unless things have changed, I believe both teams still have to play 5 full innings.

[Old Man High Pants]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

I respect various opinions and see both sides.

I have a very different perspective on the reps impact.  Many years ago, had a son that was a soph on a 5A state championship team.  Because they were very good and opened up leads sometimes pretty quickly, he got tons of experience getting friday night reps in the 2nd half against starting lineups and second string players.  There is no doubt that experience helped him prepare to be a 2 years starter for that program his junior and senior years.  Playing against freshman and other sophs during Saturday's JV game did not offer that caliber of experience.  Was it essential?  Perhaps not, as the majority of his development came in practice against older state championship caliber players.  But was it a plus for his development beyond playing JV ball?  Absolutely.

I guess I am old school and during my days, played on both ends of wide score margins.  I survived and wasn't harmed long term to experience some beat downs.  We all know life itself will offer some beat downs, and calling time out or simply ending it early isn't always or even typically an option.  

I thought your 10 run rule in baseball was a good comment....but unless things have changed, I believe both teams still have to play 5 full innings.

I can respect this side of the argument as well. Totally understand this perspective and used to 100% agree. But on the teams I've been involved with when we were on the winning side of the mercy rule we immediately subbed down, which is something I think you'll start to see more of as the rule continues. Honestly now I think it's a bad look if you get to the mercy rule and don't start to sub down. 

I don't think I'd ever be in favor of a "run rule" for football like baseball. Still think you should finish out the game. 

[Woody_Hayes]

I appreciate the IFCA and IHSAA working together to establish our mercy rule in conjunction with the new quarter rule.
 

Those rule changes have helped me, as a coach, manage games more effectively.
No hard feelings if I onside kick in the third quarter, up 28, and then dial up a TD pass to hopefully start the running clock.  No hard feelings if the other team plays their starters, pedal to the metal, and scores 60 in the first half.  It makes game decisions from both coaching staffs feel impersonal. Business is business.

[Goose Liver]

To stir the pot.... seven onside kicks in a 70 - 0 blowout.... triggers me.

 

 

[BDGiant93]

On 5/31/2022 at 4:12 PM, Old Man High Pants said:

I don't buy into the reps thing. 

I absolutely do. What's the incentive for a scout team guy to keep getting his head knocked in during practice? The chance to play in a varsity game under the lights on a Friday night. The mercy rule is fine as is, and I've seen BD on both sides of it. I do think if you're up 49-0 in the 2nd quarter, it might be good to have it kick in. I agree with @crimsonace1.

[Old Man High Pants]

2 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

What's the incentive for a scout team guy to keep getting his head knocked in during practice? The chance to play in a varsity game under the lights on a Friday night. 

Which like I said before turns into nothing but a glorified JV game. Playing on Friday night doesn't mean anything when everyone is trying to get the game over as quickly as possible, coaches & players are mentally checking out, and fans are emptying the stands. 

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, Old Man High Pants said:

Which like I said before turns into nothing but a glorified JV game. Playing on Friday night doesn't mean anything when everyone is trying to get the game over as quickly as possible, coaches & players are mentally checking out, and fans are emptying the stands. 

So, coaches and players don’t mentally check out, and fans don’t leave early, when it’s 35-0 at halftime? I beg to differ.

[Old Man High Pants]

On 6/17/2022 at 7:09 PM, Bobref said:

So, coaches and players don’t mentally check out, and fans don’t leave early, when it’s 35-0 at halftime? I beg to differ.

I'm saying they do these things when it's 35-0 at half and there's a running clock, are you saying they don't? I'm confused.

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, Old Man High Pants said:

I'm saying they do these things when it's 35-0 at half and there's a running clock, are you saying they don't? I'm confused.

I’m saying they often check out of a lopsided game whether there’s a mercy rule or not.

[Old Man High Pants]

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

I’m saying they often check out of a lopsided game whether there’s a mercy rule or not.

We're in agreement on that. More of a reason to get games moving when it's 35-0 at the start of the second quarter and you have to get through another regular timed 12 minutes.

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Old Man High Pants said:

We're in agreement on that. More of a reason to get games moving when it's 35-0 at the start of the second quarter and you have to get through another regular timed 12 minutes.

So, you think the mercy rule is a good idea, but it should be extended to the first half?

[oldtimeqb]

I would much rather have a mercy rule than this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/02/nyregion/football-coach-suspended-sportsmanship.html
 

In this article, it mentions a rule in NY. If a team wins by 42+, the coach must explain to a review panel why a lopsided score could not be avoided. Yikes .