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DTs Dandy Dozen - A Look Ahead at What Might Be Coming


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2 minutes ago, DT said:

Band and Show Choir parents are wealthier than football parents and willing to pay for these trips out of their own pockets.  

That’s painting with a pretty broad brush. My younger daughter was formerly the Director of Bands at Triton Central and is now the Director of Orchestras for the School Town of Munster. So, I’m pretty familiar with the band thing. The one thing I’ve noticed is that the music groups are constantly engaged in some sort of fund raising venture to pay for these trips. Not only does this minimize the financial burden on the school, but it has the effect of involving both the parents and the community in band activities to a degree not often seen in athletics.

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1 minute ago, Bobref said:

That’s painting with a pretty broad brush. My younger daughter was formerly the Director of Bands at Triton Central and is now the Director of Orchestras for the School Town of Munster. So, I’m pretty familiar with the band thing. The one thing I’ve noticed is that the music groups are constantly engaged in some sort of fund raising venture to pay for these trips. Not only does this minimize the financial burden on the school, but it has the effect of involving both the parents and the community in band activities to a degree not often seen in athletics.

I spent thousands on travel, costumes, makeup, food, parties, etc.  Very expensive extra curricular activity.  

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12 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

I’m glad schools apply this rule equally to marching bands, preventing then from performing at the Macy’s parade in NY and dance teams can’t go to Disney for competitions.

Wait… nevermind.

(And yes. I know they are not under IHSAA, but the heat is making me snarky. Lol) 

 

Sure it's not cracking into that second six pack? 😁

Lord, I apologize for that.

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10 hours ago, psaboy said:

If I was a betting man, I would bet that if the travel rule was challenged in a court of law, schools would be allowed to go where they want to go. Maybe a limit to times they could travel far, but who knows nowadays. 

 

5 hours ago, Bobref said:

You’d lose that bet. 

Schools can pretty much go wherever they want right now; just not under the IHSAA banner

Private institution with its own set of rules and non-mandatory membership.  Pretty much as long as they are violating discrimination laws with the activity, they can pretty much set the rule as they wish.  If you want change on that rule, it's going to have to come from within.  The issue that I think you'd see with this is that there just aren't enough schools REALLY impacted by the rule to get enough of a groundswell of support to overturn.  I mean think about it, we couldn't enough groundswell to make a four-year window for Success Factor and that probably has more direct/indirect impact on teams than long-distance travel.

 

21 minutes ago, Bobref said:

That’s painting with a pretty broad brush. My younger daughter was formerly the Director of Bands at Triton Central and is now the Director of Orchestras for the School Town of Munster. So, I’m pretty familiar with the band thing. The one thing I’ve noticed is that the music groups are constantly engaged in some sort of fund raising venture to pay for these trips. Not only does this minimize the financial burden on the school, but it has the effect of involving both the parents and the community in band activities to a degree not often seen in athletics.

Ain't that the truth.  I used to complain about the fundraisers for football/baseball until my nieces got involve in orchestra.

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1 hour ago, DT said:

I spent thousands on travel, costumes, makeup, food, parties, etc.  Very expensive extra curricular activity.  

Got any pictures of you in your costume and makeup? Would love to see those.

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2 hours ago, DT said:

Band and Show Choir parents are wealthier than football parents and willing to pay for these trips out of their own pockets.  

So not many Band & Choir students on free lunches??

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On 6/16/2022 at 11:44 AM, Bobref said:

Correct. A lot of people think the travel limitations only apply when the Indiana school travels out of state. That’s incorrect. The travel rule, which is Rule 10-1, reads as follows:

“The address of an out-of-state school participating in a Contest with a member School, as well as the site of such Contests, must be within six hundred (600) miles round trip travel from the Indiana state line and shall be sponsored or co-sponsored by a member School.”

I’m on record as saying the travel rule constitutes an unwarranted intrusion on the rights of local school corporations to decide, on a case by case basis, what sort of experiences they want to offer students, including student athletes. A blanket rule like 10-1 is a blatant overreach by the IHSAA.

The travel rule is silly, but it's really silly that you can't host someone further than 600 miles round trip from out of state.

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Our band and choir students raise an awful lot of money to go on their trips and excursions. They sell the heck out of fundraiser stuff. My rule is that I always buy, but it has to be the first person to get to me.

Edited by BDGiant93
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3 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

The travel rule is silly, but it's really silly that you can't host someone further than 600 miles round trip from out of state.

This is what leads me to believe that the travel rule is grounded in something other than, or in addition to, concerns about students missing school, or expense. I believe there are those that feel such games would give a team a competitive advantage come tournament time, and since not every school can avail themselves of such opportunities, no one should. I know it’s silly and illogical. But I can’t think of any other reason for the rule.

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On 6/17/2022 at 4:53 PM, Bobref said:

This is what leads me to believe that the travel rule is grounded in something other than, or in addition to, concerns about students missing school, or expense. I believe there are those that feel such games would give a team a competitive advantage come tournament time, and since not every school can avail themselves of such opportunities, no one should. I know it’s silly and illogical. But I can’t think of any other reason for the rule.

I don't think it's all that silly or illogical.  I've often thought the same thing ... that there's something more than an arbitrary 300-mile rule and that there was something else tied to it.  If the discussions concerning haves/have-nots WITHIN conferences, regions, classes, holds then an open-travel policy would seem to exacerbate that for the tournament.  I wonder, if you plot that 300-mile radius, what does it provide in the way of average-/large-metro access.  I did a quick set of 300-mile radius circles using Evanasville, Gary, Terre Haute, Ft. Wayne, and Lawrenceburg as surrogates for end-points of the state.  Here's the link to the tool if you want to play around with it further: https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php.  It tends to provide relative access to the Midwest.  One other interesting thing that I noticed in this is that it tends to be, with the exception of Kentucky/Tennessee and some parts of Missouri, focused on Big Ten country.  Of course, it would be more questioning to have something that excluded Kentucky being on the border, but 300-miles seems to be somewhat conducive to showcasing in front of the heart of the Big Ten ... at least geographically ... without making it overtly obvious ... and just biting the bullet that a couple of SEC states might get a look.  Might be as silly/illogical, but folks have done stranger things for a lot less.

image.png.8aa33363025f5094a7361cf2d635d2a4.png

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On 6/17/2022 at 1:38 PM, BDGiant93 said:

The travel rule is silly, but it's really silly that you can't host someone further than 600 miles round trip from out of state.

---

Our band and choir students raise an awful lot of money to go on their trips and excursions. They sell the heck out of fundraiser stuff. My rule is that I always buy, but it has to be the first person to get to me.

In a weird way, the impending LACK of FB officials (nationwide) may facilitate the elimination of the 300 mile rule and games being played amongst multi-state schools on nights OTHER THAN Fridays on a regular basis.  

 

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8 hours ago, foxbat said:

I don't think it's all that silly or illogical.  I've often thought the same thing ... that there's something more than an arbitrary 300-mile rule and that there was something else tied to it.  If the discussions concerning haves/have-nots WITHIN conferences, regions, classes, holds then an open-travel policy would seem to exacerbate that for the tournament.  I wonder, if you plot that 300-mile radius, what does it provide in the way of average-/large-metro access.  I did a quick set of 300-mile radius circles using Evanasville, Gary, Terre Haute, Ft. Wayne, and Lawrenceburg as surrogates for end-points of the state.  Here's the link to the tool if you want to play around with it further: https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php.  It tends to provide relative access to the Midwest.  One other interesting thing that I noticed in this is that it tends to be, with the exception of Kentucky/Tennessee and some parts of Missouri, focused on Big Ten country.  Of course, it would be more questioning to have something that excluded Kentucky being on the border, but 300-miles seems to be somewhat conducive to showcasing in front of the heart of the Big Ten ... at least geographically ... without making it overtly obvious ... and just biting the bullet that a couple of SEC states might get a look.  Might be as silly/illogical, but folks have done stranger things for a lot less.

image.png.8aa33363025f5094a7361cf2d635d2a4.png

I think you are giving the people who came up with the travel rule too much credit for “intelligent design.”

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7 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I think you are giving the people who came up with the travel rule too much credit for “intelligent design.”

Ran out of time to edit the above post. I was going to add:

I guess my question would be: “If playing schools in places like Cleveland, Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, etc., does not result in an unfair competitive advantage, why would anyone think that playing schools from Pittsburgh, or Alabama, Georgia, California, or Florida does provide such an advantage?”

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13 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

In a weird way, the impending LACK of FB officials (nationwide) may facilitate the elimination of the 300 mile rule and games being played amongst multi-state schools on nights OTHER THAN Fridays on a regular basis.  

 

Interesting take.

Is Friday Night so sacred that no one ever thinks to play varsity football on weeknights.  It would seem easier to find officials that way.

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1 hour ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Interesting take.

Is Friday Night so sacred that no one ever thinks to play varsity football on weeknights.  It would seem easier to find officials that way.

It sure seems so in Indiana.  I know that a discussion has been brought up to allow play on Sunday's if needed.  But I think it only pertained to the playoffs.

Honestly, I don't see that suggestion getting any traction in THIS state....though Kentucky has allowed it.   🙄

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12 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Interesting take.

Is Friday Night so sacred that no one ever thinks to play varsity football on weeknights.  It would seem easier to find officials that way.

Maybe not in Indiana but schools play on Thursdays and Saturdays as well. Saturdays usually Bowl games so mostly at the beginning of the season. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

#1 is close. Delta should be decent but being a power in 3a I doubt it. Rumor has it that with in the next year or so Delta, Yorktown and New Castle will be getting the boot in the HHC so to speak and the conference will be looking for three larger schools in the Indy area. Delta, Yorktown and New Castle will be joined by Richmond, Jay County, Muncie Central, Oak Hill and Centerville. Since the teams will be traveling through Marion to play OH, why not make it 10 and pick up Marion and Mississinewa.

 

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1 hour ago, Hoosierdaddy said:

#1 is close. Delta should be decent but being a power in 3a I doubt it. Rumor has it that with in the next year or so Delta, Yorktown and New Castle will be getting the boot in the HHC so to speak and the conference will be looking for three larger schools in the Indy area. Delta, Yorktown and New Castle will be joined by Richmond, Jay County, Muncie Central, Oak Hill and Centerville. Since the teams will be traveling through Marion to play OH, why not make it 10 and pick up Marion and Mississinewa.

 

Really like that new conference set up 

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