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Indian72

IHSAA deems field unplayable

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14 minutes ago, scarletknights said:

Possible solition:

All North Semi-State games at Ball State, all South Semi-State games at IU.

North Semi-States in Muncie???  Heck of a drive for any Region Team that makes it...

11 minutes ago, scarletknights said:

Or at least in large neutral site high school stadiums with turf.

1 minute ago, tommy said:

I like that idea. But other factors like parking and seating capacity need to be taken into consideration.

Northern semi-states hosts could be:

6A Carmel

5A Penn

4A Merrillville

3A Homestead

2A Lake Central

1A Westfield

I think if neutral site, large high school stadiums with turf WITH CONSIDERATION to geography (i.e., locations that might be decent "middle" points) makes the most sense. 

IMO Warsaw, Lafayette Jefferson, Logansport, and Kokomo would offer fantastic venues for northern semi-state contests for at least the 4 largest of the 6 classes (with the thought processes that larger schools tend to come from larger population areas, and thus would have more fans travel, etc.)  Add in Culver Military Academy and Taylor University in Upland, IN as potential smaller class venues...  just imagine:

Penn vs. Carmel @ Kokomo

Michigan City vs. Kokomo @ Lafayette Jeff

FW Dwenger vs. Lowell @ Warsaw

Mishawaka Marian vs. Brebeuf Jesuit @ Logansport

Woodlan vs. Eastbrook @ Taylor University

Monroe Central vs. Pioneer @ Culver Military Academies

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For the neutral site idea to work, I think there would have to be a couple of sites that could host multiple games. The larger crowd would better offset the rental fees. Also consider that most college stadiums cannot really account for the differences in field dimensions. The hashes in high school are 13' 4"  wider than college hashes, and the goalposts are just under 5' wider than college posts. It is easy to paint the extra lines on a field, but getting new goalposts for high school games may be a bigger obstacle.

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5 minutes ago, Irishman said:

For the neutral site idea to work, I think there would have to be a couple of sites that could host multiple games. The larger crowd would better offset the rental fees. Also consider that most college stadiums cannot really account for the differences in field dimensions. The hashes in high school are 13' 4"  wider than college hashes, and the goalposts are just under 5' wider than college posts. It is easy to paint the extra lines on a field, but getting new goalposts for high school games may be a bigger obstacle.

Most goal post can be widen and the slide out or you just play with what you have

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The ones at St. Francis are not adjustable, and the last time I coached in a game at UIndy, the posts were not adjustable either. Some may have adjustable ones, but I am guessing that most schools don't since they had not considered hosting high school games.

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3 hours ago, scarletknights said:

Possible solition:

All North Semi-State games at Ball State, all South Semi-State games at IU.

Ross-Ade is a much better stadium than the two of those combined.

Edited by Gipper

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4 hours ago, scarletknights said:

Possible solition:

All North Semi-State games at Ball State, all South Semi-State games at IU.

I like this idea.  Neutral sites for semi-state games.

 

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Those calling for college stadiums to be used...   

From what I've heard on WLW radio, there's some sort of newer NCAA recruiting rule that is prohibiting the use of the University of Cincinnati's Nippert Stadium from being used for the OHSAA playoffs.  In the past, they would be able to use it for annual doubleheaders of powerhouse games, but no more.

Edited by gindie

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7 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

North Semi-States in Muncie???  Heck of a drive for any Region Team that makes it...

I think if neutral site, large high school stadiums with turf WITH CONSIDERATION to geography (i.e., locations that might be decent "middle" points) makes the most sense. 

IMO Warsaw, Lafayette Jefferson, Logansport, and Kokomo would offer fantastic venues for northern semi-state contests for at least the 4 largest of the 6 classes (with the thought processes that larger schools tend to come from larger population areas, and thus would have more fans travel, etc.)  Add in Culver Military Academy and Taylor University in Upland, IN as potential smaller class venues...  just imagine:

Penn vs. Carmel @ Kokomo

Michigan City vs. Kokomo @ Lafayette Jeff

FW Dwenger vs. Lowell @ Warsaw

Mishawaka Marian vs. Brebeuf Jesuit @ Logansport

Woodlan vs. Eastbrook @ Taylor University

Monroe Central vs. Pioneer @ Culver Military Academies

I think most of those make sense.  I would make a change to the 1A and 2A sites.  Woodlan vs. Eastbrook at Bluffton, and Monroe Central vs. Pioneer at Oak Hill.

Kokomo hosting a game the same night they are playing somewhere else would be a problem.

One issue with football neutral sites is the disparity in the size of the home and visitor bleachers.  In a basketball gym they tend to be symmetrical and easily split into 2 or 4 sections.  In most high school football stadiums, there is a significant difference between the home and away side of the field.  That isn’t enough of a concern to make it a barrier to neutral site games in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, HoopsCoach said:

I think most of those make sense.  I would make a change to the 1A and 2A sites.  Woodlan vs. Eastbrook at Bluffton, and Monroe Central vs. Pioneer at Oak Hill.

Kokomo hosting a game the same night they are playing somewhere else would be a problem.

One issue with football neutral sites is the disparity in the size of the home and visitor bleachers.  In a basketball gym they tend to be symmetrical and easily split into 2 or 4 sections.  In most high school football stadiums, there is a significant difference between the home and away side of the field.  That isn’t enough of a concern to make it a barrier to neutral site games in my opinion.

BSU’s Schumann Stadium is hopeless.

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20 hours ago, scarletknights said:

Possible solition:

All North Semi-State games at Ball State, all South Semi-State games at IU.

Great suggestion but who pays it. If IHSaa foots the bill even better but if the schools have to pay out of their small cut of the gate bad plan. 

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8 minutes ago, bucksfan said:

Great suggestion but who pays it. If IHSaa foots the bill even better but if the schools have to pay out of their small cut of the gate bad plan. 

As far as I know, it all comes out of the same pot. So, it would cut into the schools share. To me, playing at various school sites would be the way to go. Going down the center of the state, to minimize travel......Penn, Plymouth, Logansport, Indy area, Bloomington, etc.......... Great atmosphere last night at Logansport with Pioneer and Monroe Central. 

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14 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

Kokomo hosting a game the same night they are playing somewhere else would be a problem.

Here in Michigan, all semifinal/semistate games are on neutral fields, presumably with FieldTurf. It should be seriously considered in Indiana, which has seen an explosion of artificial surfaces at schools who would be capable of hosting such an event.

As for the scenario above, our school across the street has traveled to 3 semifinals in the last 7 years while hosting a lower-class semifinal on their FieldTurf. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

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One problem with having "North" Semi-State games at Ball State is that in 4A Ball State is in the "South" geographically.  Mississinewa (30 miles North of Muncie), Marion (35 miles North of Muncie), Yorktown (5 miles from Muncie), Delta (7 miles from Muncie), and Pendleton Heights (20 miles from Muncie) would all have to travel a long way for a Semi-State game.  This year, Mississinewa had just over a 2 hour bus ride to play at Greenwood.  Mississinewa dismissed the football team after half a day so the players could have time to get something to eat because the bus left at 3 and school gets out at 2:30.  Had Mississinewa won against Greenwood they would have hosted East Central since they beat Evansville Central.  Had Evansville Central won, Mississinewa would have had a 5-6 hour bus ride down to Evansville.  Either way the Semi-State game would have been played on Saturday due to travel time.  This same scenario applies to all of the Sectional 21 teams.  The real question is since the Semi-State game would be played on Saturday and most of the teams would go up on Friday night due to the travel, who pays for the hotel rooms and meals for the teams?  Does the school system just eat the costs due to advancing or does the IHSAA help out with the costs?

Indiana Wesleyan has a brand new football stadium with locker rooms that are nicer than many colleges including Taylor University.  Having neutral sites to host the Semi-State games is good as most schools could save money.  Goal posts widths could be a problem at College Stadiums.  However, Fort Wayne Dwenger plays at St. Francis almost every year and the posts don't seem to be a problem.  

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21 hours ago, Gipper said:

Ross-Ade is a much better stadium than the two of those combined.

That is quite a............statement......

There is much to be said about Ross-Ade, but I'll withhold comments at this time.

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17 hours ago, Gipper said:

BSU’s Schumann Stadium is hopeless.

?  I thought it was a decent mid-major stadium the times I have been there to watch a Cardinals game.

 

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On 11/17/2017 at 3:01 PM, slice60 said:

For the Semistate games, they could take a page out the playbook for other sports like basketball & baseball-- select 6 sites for the north & 6 sites for the south before the season begins. After the regional games have been played, the IHSAA then determines which class plays at which site based upon travel distances for the 2 schools.

The only issue would be -- do you let a team who is hosting a game play a "neutral" Semistate on their homefield or do you make them travel to play elsewhere? I think this has been a debated issue in those other sports as well.

I think this is a really good idea.  I’ve been for it for a long time. Neutral site semifinals are the best way to go  

 

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New hash marks could be added with no issues. If the goal posts aren't adjustable, the rules allow for use of NFL or NCAA field goal widths if their fields are used.

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As this thread has evolved, I have yet to see any answers about how the IHSAA representatives are called in for inspection of a teams home field. I can’t imagine they automatically inspect every potential host field for semi state games and I also can’t imagine it’s random. 

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50 minutes ago, new money said:

As this thread has evolved, I have yet to see any answers about how the IHSAA representatives are called in for inspection of a teams home field. I can’t imagine they automatically inspect every potential host field for semi state games and I also can’t imagine it’s random. 

I wonder the same thing.  Does the school that is to play there ask them to look at it?  I have seen some awful fields watching highlights and games on the tube.  How would the IHSAA know Zollner was not good for a semi state but good enough for prior tournament games?

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On 11/17/2017 at 10:20 PM, gindie said:

Those calling for college stadiums to be used...   

From what I've heard on WLW radio, there's some sort of newer NCAA recruiting rule that is prohibiting the use of the University of Cincinnati's Nippert Stadium from being used for the OHSAA playoffs.  In the past, they would be able to use it for annual doubleheaders of powerhouse games, but no more.

Interesting... Ross-Ade stadium hosted a double header of high school games earlier this year.  Purdue offered the stadium to area teams as a "peace offering" for the Big 10 having a Purdue Game on a Friday night there.   I question the rule being an NCAA rule.  

Edited by nmsu aggie

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On 11/18/2017 at 4:29 PM, Muda69 said:

?  I thought it was a decent mid-major stadium the times I have been there to watch a Cardinals game.

 

Wow.  Thanks for your stamp of approval.  Being Muda-Approved is apparently vital.

Edited by Gipper

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2 hours ago, Indian72 said:

I wonder the same thing.  Does the school that is to play there ask them to look at it?  I have seen some awful fields watching highlights and games on the tube.  How would the IHSAA know Zollner was not good for a semi state but good enough for prior tournament games?

Only 2 tournament games were played there (Zollner)  to my understanding...  Garrett and Lakeland v. Concordia.

It is possible that at some point any of the institutions involved were concerned about the field conditions.  

Dwenger played on turf (St. Francis Univ.) then on the road at Angola...then moved to Homestead (Lowell).  

I have said many times that FW seems to be the last major IN metropolitan area to fully embrace turf.   That has got to change, for a multitude of reasons.  

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2 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Only 2 tournament games were played there (Zollner)  to my understanding...  Garrett and Lakeland v. Concordia.

It is possible that at some point any of the institutions involved were concerned about the field conditions.  

Dwenger played on turf (St. Francis Univ.) then on the road at Angola...then moved to Homestead (Lowell).  

I have said many times that FW seems to be the last major IN metropolitan area to fully embrace turf.   That has got to change, for a multitude of reasons.  

It will in some parts around FW  :17_v:

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