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Kirschner Resigns from BD

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42 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Anyone else thinking that DT is doing this on purpose? So that we get to keep hearing all the great stories that go way beyond wins and losses and the game of football to lessons in life? I don’t know Mike very well. We were students in a Summer school class early in my teaching career, while he was still the head coach at Cascade. We had a blast working together. It was a team building class, and seeing the energy and determination he brought to it made the class that much better. 

That would be borderline Trumpian.  Im not that clever.  LOL

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DT - just curious, you are a media member I see. Did you ever earn a varsity letter in anything during your HS years, or perhaps actually coach a team beyond youth league? You seem awfully critical for someone who may or may not have any idea what it takes to lead a football program at a school the size of BD. 

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4 hours ago, Irishman said:

Anyone else thinking that DT is doing this on purpose? So that we get to keep hearing all the great stories that go way beyond wins and losses and the game of football to lessons in life? I don’t know Mike very well. We were students in a Summer school class early in my teaching career, while he was still the head coach at Cascade. We had a blast working together. It was a team building class, and seeing the energy and determination he brought to it made the class that much better. 

It's my opinion he has never liked Mike for some reason. He (and Tom Allen, for that matter) have constantly been targets of DT's rants over the years. Many a "DT's Dandy Dozen" bullet point dedicated to them.

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8 hours ago, gapdownbacker said:

DT - just curious, you are a media member I see. Did you ever earn a varsity letter in anything during your HS years, or perhaps actually coach a team beyond youth league? You seem awfully critical for someone who may or may not have any idea what it takes to lead a football program at a school the size of BD. 

4 years high school football

2 year varsity starter

First Team All Conference Tight End Senior Year

Played 1 year Div 3 college football

Asst Varsity and Freshman Football Coach - 1 year

Pee Wee/Bantam/Junior High Official - 10 years

Sportswriter - 15 years

High School Football Web Site Admin - 1 year

High School Football Website Blogger/Writer/Contributor -  15 years

 

I am not currently in the media.  

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

It's my opinion he has never liked Mike for some reason. He (and Tom Allen, for that matter) have constantly been targets of DT's rants over the years. Many a "DT's Dandy Dozen" bullet point dedicated to them.

My primary targets have always been big schools that consistently fail to live up to expectations and show a chronic inability to take advantage of all of their inherent, built in advantages.  Ben Davis and Lake Central have borne the brunt of my criticisms.  

Its not personal.  Its all about performance and results.  I do have a vested interest in Indiana University, as I am a business school graduate.  I remain highly skeptical regarding the prospects for success under the Allen regime.  It appears very obvious to me that IU's competitors in the bottom third of the conference (Purdue/Rutgers/Maryland/Minnesota) are making rapid improvement and may mitigate any gains Allen might make in the short term.  

 

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23 hours ago, DrivenT said:

He struggled for many years to get BD up to elite status, which is really where they should always be given the vast resources available

CG, Carmel and Warren Central forcibly took away the Giants status as Indiana's top program while it was under the direction of Tom Allen and Coach Kirschner.

Kirschner deserves credit for regaining elite status, but is also accountable for the down years.  That makes him "good," not "great" in my view.

 

 

hmmm....wonder how many other merely "good" coaches would love to luck into winning 2 of the last 4 big school state titles?  Doubt he really cares what you think of his ability to coach, DT, especially when he's the one winning the rings....

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3 minutes ago, Indyyjr said:

hmmm....wonder how many other merely "good" coaches would love to luck into winning 2 of the last 4 big school state titles?  Doubt he really cares what you think of his ability to coach, DT, especially when he's the one winning the rings....

 

Coach Kirschner came on strong over the past few years.  he started rather slowly, given BD lofty standards.  You have to look at the entire body of work when making a judgement call on his tenure.  It looks "good" to me, not "great"  The guy who coached there from 69-03 was great.  The guy from 04-06 was mediocre, at best. 

Start End Years Coach Name Record
1969 2003 35 Dick Dullaghan 313-58-0
2007 2011 5 Mike Kirschner 31-18-0
2004 2006 3 Tom Allen 25-12-0

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1 minute ago, DrivenT said:

 

Coach Kirschner came on strong over the past few years.  he started rather slowly, given BD lofty standards.  You have to look at the entire body of work when making a judgement call on his tenure.  It looks "good" to me, not "great"  The guy who coached there from 69-03 was great.  The guy from 04-06 was mediocre, at best. 

Start End Years Coach Name Record
1969 2003 35 Dick Dullaghan 313-58-0
2007 2011 5 Mike Kirschner 31-18-0
2004 2006 3 Tom Allen 25-12-0

Boy.  I did not know DD coached at BD from those years you have posted above DT.  Are you 100% sure about this?  Wasn't there stints at Chatard, Carmel and Army maybe?

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4 minutes ago, Coach Ellenwood said:

Boy.  I did not know DD coached at BD from those years you have posted above DT.  Are you 100% sure about this?  Wasn't there stints at Chatard, Carmel and Army maybe?

http://bdhs.wayne.k12.in.us/athletics/boys/football/history_index/history_coaching/

 

213-41 at BD from 1984-2003.   83% winning percentage.  And never shy to make sure everyone knows about it.:02_v:

I always laugh when I hear DD do color on a game.  Every other play is the "jet sweep,"  whether it is or not.  

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5 hours ago, Coach Ellenwood said:

Boy.  I did not know DD coached at BD from those years you have posted above DT.  Are you 100% sure about this?  Wasn't there stints at Chatard, Carmel and Army maybe?

Add in Purdue.

213-42 in a very different atmosphere.

Here's your Ben Davis run down. The numbers before the rank indicate #of wins behind the coach above them.

  Rank Coach Wins Losses Ties Games Pct. Years
  1 Dick Dullaghan 213 42 0 255 0.835294 1984-2003
118  2 Mike Kirschner 95 36 0 131 0.725191 2007-2017
36  3 Bob Wilbur 59 53 0 112 0.526786 1973-1983
28  4 Lou Parnell 31 26 1 58 0.54386 1949-1955
6  5 Tom Allen 25 12 0 37 0.675676 2004-2006
6 Bill McClain 19 48 3 70 0.283582 1963-1969
4  7 Bert "Red" Haviland 15 29 4 48 0.340909 1937-1942
8 John Masariu 11 17 0 28 0.392857 1956-1958
4  9 Ralph Crock 7 23 2 32 0.233333 1945-1948
1  10 Bob Britt 6 23 1 30 0.206897 1970-1972
2  11 Woody Baker 4 14 1 19 0.222222 1959-1960
2  12 Trent Gipson 2 18 0 20 0.1 1961-1962
1  13 Chuck Stuckey 1 7 0 8 0.125 1944
1  14 Leo Lentz 0 7 0 0 0 1943
  15   0 0 0 0 #DIV/0! 2018-Pres.
      488 355 12 855 0.578885 1937-Pres.

1984    5    5    0    10    0.5    Dick Dullaghan
1985    3    6    0    9    0.333333    Dick Dullaghan
1986    7    4    0    11    0.636364    Dick Dullaghan
1987    12    2    0    14    0.857143    Dick Dullaghan
1988    14    0    0    14    1    Dick Dullaghan
1989    7    3    0    10    0.7    Dick Dullaghan
1990    13    1    0    14    0.928571    Dick Dullaghan
1991    14    0    0    14    1    Dick Dullaghan
1992    12    2    0    14    0.857143    Dick Dullaghan
1993    5    4    0    9    0.555556    Dick Dullaghan
1994    8    1    0    9    0.888889    Dick Dullaghan
1995    12    1    0    13    0.923077    Dick Dullaghan
1996    12    2    0    14    0.857143    Dick Dullaghan
1997    13    1    0    14    0.928571    Dick Dullaghan
1998    11    3    0    14    0.785714    Dick Dullaghan
1999    15    0    0    15    1    Dick Dullaghan
2000    12    2    0    14    0.857143    Dick Dullaghan
2001    15    0    0    15    1    Dick Dullaghan
2002    12    3    0    15    0.8    Dick Dullaghan
2003    11    2    0    13    0.846154    Dick Dullaghan

Edited by BDGiant93

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Oh...the horror...these are just awful years. (Sarcasm intended)

2004 10 3 0 13 0.769231 Tom Allen
2005 6 5 0 11 0.545455 Tom Allen
2006 9 4 0 13 0.692308 Tom Allen
2007 7 4 0 11 0.636364 Mike Kirschner
2008 10 4 0 14 0.714286 Mike Kirschner
2009 5 5 0 10 0.5 Mike Kirschner
2010 6 4 0 10 0.6 Mike Kirschner
2011 10 3 0 13 0.769231 Mike Kirschner
2012 8 2 0 10 0.8 Mike Kirschner
2013 8 3 0 11 0.727273 Mike Kirschner
2014 12 2 0 14 0.857143 Mike Kirschner
2015 6 5 0 11 0.545455 Mike Kirschner
2016 9 4 0 13 0.692308 Mike Kirschner
2017 14 0 0 14 1 Mike Kirschner
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6 hours ago, Coach Ellenwood said:

Boy.  I did not know DD coached at BD from those years you have posted above DT.  Are you 100% sure about this?  Wasn't there stints at Chatard, Carmel and Army maybe?

He was first at Chatard, then Carmel, then BD.

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Kirchner won a Regional his 2nd year at the helm before losing to one of the best CG teams that Moore has coached in the semi-state.  That team beat Carmel, and beat Warren handily in the regional.  2009 and 2010 were high injury years.  I believe 2009 was the year where all 3 QB's got hurt and the running back had to be the QB in their sectional game, which they still almost won.  2007 started off strong, but then Marqueis Gray got hurt.  Starting QB was down in 3 of his first 4 years.  Then, in 2011, BD seemed to get everything back to normal and played with very few injuries.  Was a 2-point conversion away from defeating Carmel who won state that year.  They've been very good since 2011.

 

Knowing what he has to deal with over the years, he is more than a GREAT coach, he is one of the best ever in this state, even if it was only 11 years.

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12 minutes ago, INFBallToday85 said:

Kirchner won a Regional his 2nd year at the helm before losing to one of the best CG teams that Moore has coached in the semi-state.  That team beat Carmel, and beat Warren handily in the regional.  2009 and 2010 were high injury years.  I believe 2009 was the year where all 3 QB's got hurt and the running back had to be the QB in their sectional game, which they still almost won.  2007 started off strong, but then Marqueis Gray got hurt.  Starting QB was down in 3 of his first 4 years.  Then, in 2011, BD seemed to get everything back to normal and played with very few injuries.  Was a 2-point conversion away from defeating Carmel who won state that year.  They've been very good since 2011.

 

Knowing what he has to deal with over the years, he is more than a GREAT coach, he is one of the best ever in this state, even if it was only 11 years.

Really?????????????

Biggest school in the state, by a mile.  The Freshman academy alone is bigger than half the high schools in the state.   Best facilities money can buy.  Huge roster.  Loads of D1 talent.  Outstanding community and administrative support.  Strong alumni support and involvement.  MASSIVE coaching staff.  

Give me a break.  This is bigger than most small college programs.  

 

Edited by DrivenT

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Check out the new Mt. Vernon thread, I guess I was right after all about the coaching hire at Mt. Vernon. 

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10 minutes ago, Goldenbears00 said:

Check out the new Mt. Vernon thread, I guess I was right after all about the coaching hire at Mt. Vernon. 

It doesn't matter if you were right or wrong. Everyone that has posted here knows that we don't allow any rumors of any kind. It's really not that hard to understand. 

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13 hours ago, DrivenT said:

Really?????????????

Biggest school in the state, by a mile.  The Freshman academy alone is bigger than half the high schools in the state.   Best facilities money can buy.  Huge roster.  Loads of D1 talent.  Outstanding community and administrative support.  Strong alumni support and involvement.  MASSIVE coaching staff.  

Give me a break.  This is bigger than most small college programs.  

 

Carmel is bigger.

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31 minutes ago, TCfootball70 said:

Carmel is bigger.

TC don't let facts get in the way of a man babbling.

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43 minutes ago, Goldenbears00 said:

Thanks for the lecture.  I am fully aware.  Just stating a fact.

What do you want to win Adam Shefter?   

52 minutes ago, Canoe Fest Charlie said:

It doesn't matter if you were right or wrong. Everyone that has posted here knows that we don't allow any rumors of any kind. It's really not that hard to understand. 

HEY HEY  

VOICE OF REASON and UNDERSTANDING!!!   :17_v:

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I have NO idea who Coach Kirchner is other than that was the head football coach at Ben Davis for 11 years and retired as a state championship coach. He's probably an amazing guy. He's probably dedicated to growing young men into more than just football players. He's probably very involved in his community. A great man? Absolutely. A great coach? No, maybe just a good coach. In his first 10 years at BD, he averaged four losses per year. From a football standpoint, that doesn't seem acceptable considering the resources he had at his disposal. My guess is that a Wright, Dullaghan, or an Isaacs would have had at least 5 championship during that time period.

I'm positive that Kirshner was at BD for 11 years as a result of his success with kids and what he may have done off the field and in the community. And I couldn't be happier for this guy to retire as the head football coach of a team that will go down as one of the best in Indiana history. I'm just of the opinion that he was blessed with, possibly, more talent than any coach has ever seen on one football team. I'm also of the opinion, with the resources at his disposal, state championship success could have come much earlier.........if in fact he is a "great" coach. Yeah, I know how powerful the MIC is and how difficult it is to get by some of the programs in the Indy area............Carmel, Warren Central, Center Grove, etc. But c'mon, were talking about Ben Davis here.

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Issacs has 1 state title for Snider 

Tippman has 1 state for Snider

1992 and 2015 

Man with all that talent they have in Ft Wayne each year you'd think they would have 4 or 5 by now........

Point is that both those Snider coaches are TREMENDOUS leaders of their schools and young men.  Folks who think its so easy to win state titles are just disconnected from reality of all that goes into it.   

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2 hours ago, raiderx2 said:

TC don't let facts get in the way of a man babbling.

-Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
-Germans?
-Forget it, he's rolling.

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

I have NO idea who Coach Kirchner is other than that was the head football coach at Ben Davis for 11 years and retired as a state championship coach.

So, I'll disregard the rest of your statement.

---------------------------------------------

 

 

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57 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

So, I'll disregard the rest of your statement.

---------------------------------------------

 

 

Fair enough.

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