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MarshallCounty

Has Hell froze over?

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2 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

tenor.gif

In the last 25 years, Penn has won or shared the NIC title 24 times.

In the last 25 years, every team in the NLC (including Memorial) has won or shared at least 1 title.

Come back to me with the competitive balance issue when Penn no longer dominates year in and year out on the gridiron. Adding a second division for the schools 3.5x plus smaller the size of Penn to have a "conference championship" might create for better matchups, but it's a joke to think New Prairie, SB Washington or Mishawaka Marian over the last 3 years would have truly defeated Penn for a legitimate conference championship.

Your situation at Warsaw has nothing to do with Penn and you should have never brought Penn into the conversation.

There are no similarities between Penn football and Warsaw football relative to competitive posture and overall results.

The NIC is locked in to their situation and has taken steps to make the best out of a difficult competitive set of circumstances

Warsaw has options, and chooses not to move on them.  They are like Munster.  A powerful, wealthy school that prefers to play down instead of playing up.  Its no wonder the results have been very underwhelming historically, for both schools..

If you are looking for a role model school that is both powerful and wealthy and decides to play up, check out the program in White River Township in Greenwood, IN.

 

 

Edited by DrivenT

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On 2/7/2018 at 6:35 PM, DrivenT said:

The NIC is locked in to their situation and has taken steps to make the best out of a difficult competitive set of circumstances

Warsaw has options, and chooses not to move on them.  They are like Munster.  A powerful, wealthy school that prefers to play down instead of playing up.  Its no wonder the results have been very underwhelming historically, for both schools..

If you are looking for a role model school that is both powerful and wealthy and decides to play up, check out the program in White River Township in Greenwood, IN.

My point was that the NLC is and has been plenty competitive throughout the years. The NIC, not so much. Hopefully, that will continue to change and in a positive direction with the additions and changes that have occurred.

Very good point about Center Grove being an excellent role model school for Warsaw to look to. The success of their program really revolves around the hiring of an amazing coach (only 1 sectional and regional title before Coach Moore took the helm). However, it does help them that they have a number of 6A/5A schools within their geographic footprint (maximum of 45 minutes to Carmel). You can't fault Warsaw for where they are located geographically. Sure, they could join the SAC like you enjoy spouting... but that means 50-65 minutes of commuting one way. And you have to take into account the SAC is already at 10 members.

Hopefully you'll be impressed with who the new Tiger coach is. Not in the news breaking business.

Edited by NLCTigerFan07
Not in the news breaking business

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8 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

My point was that the NLC is and has been plenty competitive throughout the years. The NIC, not so much. Hopefully, that will continue to change and in a positive direction with the additions and changes that have occurred.

Very good point about Center Grove being an excellent role model school for Warsaw to look to. The success of their program really revolves around the hiring of an amazing coach (only 1 sectional and regional title before Coach Moore took the helm). However, it does help them that they have a number of 6A/5A schools within their geographic footprint (maximum of 45 minutes to Carmel). You can't fault Warsaw for where they are located geographically. Sure, they could join the SAC like you enjoy spouting... but that means 50-65 minutes of commuting one way. And you have to take into account the SAC is already at 10 members.

Hopefully you'll be impressed with who the new Tiger coach is. Not in the news breaking business.

There was a time not too long ago when schools made conference membership decisions primarily based on competitive issues.

Now, convenience seems to be the driving factor.  Agree, the NLC has been pretty solid for a long time.  

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2 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

There was a time not too long ago when schools made conference membership decisions primarily based on competitive issues.

Now, convenience seems to be the driving factor.  Agree, the NLC has been pretty solid for a long time.  

I don't think the NLC competitiveness is the reason behind Warsaw's lack of gridiron success IMO. Schools like Concord, Goshen, Plymouth and NorthWood have been extremely successful at various times over the last 30 years. Are they smaller than Warsaw? Yes. Is that the reason Warsaw hasn't done well in the IHSAA football tournament? No. 

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I really do believe that at this level, when an admin makes a decision to go all in on football, success generally follows.

The number of high schools in Indiana that are "all in" on football is declining.  That will make the path clearer for those who remain committed.

 

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5 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

I really do believe that at this level, when an admin makes a decision to go all in on football, success generally follows.

What exactly does that look like?

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Just now, DanteEstonia said:

What exactly does that look like?

Michigan City

Westfield

New Prairie

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1 minute ago, DrivenT said:

Michigan City

Westfield

New Prairie

K... can you explain what that looks like to a person 1800 miles away, who has never been to those cities, except maybe to have a meal?

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These are programs, in my view, that made conscious decisions to significantly elevate their respective competitive profiles through investing in improved coaching, facilities, feeder program development, and community outreach.  

All 3 have enjoyed recent success and are built for longer term growth and stability.  All have also benefited from a weakening of their core competitors.  MC has risen amongst a crumbling Duneland Conference backdrop.  Westfield's rise has coincided with a weakening Zionsville program, as well as a few down years from HSE and Fishers.

New Prairie has bludgeoned its way to dominance and earned itself a promotion to the big school division in the NIC.

Question - could Warsaw make a conscious decision and set a goal to compete at the highest level of 6A, and what measures would need to be put into place to achieve that objective?

 

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12 hours ago, DrivenT said:

I really do believe that at this level, when an admin makes a decision to go all in on football, success generally follows.

The number of high schools in Indiana that are "all in" on football is declining.  That will make the path clearer for those who remain committed.

 

You are 100% correct on the first statement, and it holds true for 1A - 6A. As for your second statement, it isn't just a football thing, it is an athletics in general thing. With the insanity that our state government has created for schools, there just isn't as much of an incentive for administrators to care about extra-curricular activities. Gotta get those test scores up!

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On 2/7/2018 at 3:24 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

They would be far and away the lowest enrollment school in the conference (605), smaller than NorthWood (883) and 3.5x smaller than Warsaw (2,176)

Football specific, sure, Jimtown could potentially be competitive in the NLC (they have gone 6-8 over the last 7 seasons against rivals NorthWood and Concord), but currently their NIC South counterparts average an enrollment of 843.  Again, the smallest enrollment in the NLC (NorthWood) is already larger than that. The NLC schools average 1,446 in size, over 2x the size of Jimtown. While they might be able to make up for this on the gridiron due to their pedigree there, I would have to bet their enrollment size would hurt them across the board athletically.

Great point, I guess I just thought of NIC and assumed they were much smaller in enrollment than most of their opponents.  

Speaking of enrollment numbers, why do some schools seem to "rise above" and be able to compete against schools much larger than themselves and others just can't?   I know that coaches, demographics, tradition and all those things play a part.  But how does a Northwood beat (and sometimes beat up) a Warsaw with 2.5x+ their enrollment?  I live in Michigan now and with their playoff system being predicated on 6 wins, you would see people lose their minds if a conference opponent had such a huge enrollment gap over an rival member.  In fact many schools up here are part of a mega conference that constantly realigns itself every few years to keep enrollments in certain divisions of the conference as close as possible.    It speaks to the quality of some of these smaller Indiana high schools programs, but how do they consistently play with the big boys when you just don't see that in some other places?   For Jimtown to consistently play Concord so tough is really a big feather in their cap. 

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51 minutes ago, Woody Hayes said:

With the insanity that our state government has created for schools, there just isn't as much of an incentive for administrators to care about extra-curricular activities. Gotta get those test scores up!

What is the primary mission of a government school corporation?   

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1 minute ago, Muda69 said:

What is the primary mission of a government school corporation?   

To identify the winners and the losers.

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50 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

What is the primary mission of a government school corporation?   

To win football games, of course.

Edited by Woody Hayes

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

What is the primary mission of a government school corporation?   

Educate children, and build them into good adults.

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

What is the primary mission of a government school corporation?   

Same for all schools (regardless of "type").

***See Dante's spot on response.***

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37 minutes ago, Coach Ellenwood said:

Same for all schools (regardless of "type").

***See Dante's spot on response.***

I would disagree with the "type".   A parochial or other religiously affiliated school may have a different overall mission.

 

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27 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I would disagree with the "type".   A parochial or other religiously affiliated school may have a different overall mission.

 

True and still applicable 

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On 2/8/2018 at 9:24 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Hopefully you'll be impressed with who the new Tiger coach is. Not in the news breaking business.

I know! I know!  And that is a great opportunity for your school and this coach!  Congrats..... when it is announced. (Wink Wink).

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9 hours ago, AverageAmericanMale said:

Might as well, they don’t play football over there anymore. 

Ha...a down year and we don't play football?  Good one.

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