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New Rules: Open Facility Gone

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I think the intent of the rule was OK, basically makes legal what many were doing all ready.  I am sure just about every sport that was in in the off season was in violation of the rule.  Basketball coaches working with more than 3 kids at a time.  FB coaches having QB and WR passing in the mornings and working with more than 3, etc, etc.  

I do think it opens the door to kids and coaches trying to get kids to specialize and we will see how that plays out--I would hope the ADs would step in in those situations however.  The biggest complaint for me is the huge difference in the times each sport will have.  If my math was correct GBB get 52 hours, FB, VB, BS, GS are 6 around 60, BBB at 68, Softball at 80, and baseball at 84.  Not sure why you do not just go with you get 5-6 weeks before your season start, and 4-5 the season after.  Gives everyone the same amount of off season time.

For FB that would be 4-5 weeks in the winter, and 5-6 in the spring, and for spring sports, 4-5 in the fall, and 5-6 in the winter.  

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I'm not sure if I like this rule or not but I've read the justification of the rule being that, well this legalizes what everyone is doing anyway. Is that what we really want? Everyone was breaking the rule so we just removed the rule to make everyone in the right instead of in the wrong. It's like increasing the speed limit because everyone speeds anyway. If the speed limit was in place to protect the driver or the student athlete in this case, shouldn't we just enforce it?

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I know I am getting old and I'm not the smartest guy around..............but I am having problems understanding the timeline here..........according to the IHSAA calendar  week 9 starts on aug 27 and week 15 is in October..........so aren't we already in football ......so how is this our off-season?  Am I missing something?

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17 minutes ago, runandgun said:

I know I am getting old and I'm not the smartest guy around..............but I am having problems understanding the timeline here..........according to the IHSAA calendar  week 9 starts on aug 27 and week 15 is in October..........so aren't we already in football ......so how is this our off-season?  Am I missing something?

Don't worry about getting old, I'm a millennial and had the same thoughts when I read it.

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Ok is everyone on here going their info from the indy star article? Because When my AD showed me the rule change the thing he pointed out where limited contact periods after each sport ended and the ability to meet only two times and week for two hours each. The way everyone is talking makes the new rule sound very different when how I was told.

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1 hour ago, runandgun said:

I know I am getting old and I'm not the smartest guy around..............but I am having problems understanding the timeline here..........according to the IHSAA calendar  week 9 starts on aug 27 and week 15 is in October..........so aren't we already in football ......so how is this our off-season?  Am I missing something?

I thought the same thing, the way they wrote it, it is very confusing.  The week 9-15 time is the time winter and spring sports get in the fall to work with their kids.  I think the next window is weeks 23-31???  That is for fall and spring sports while winter sports are in season.  And week 40-45 is the time in the spring when the fall and winter coaches can work with their athletes.  

I do agree though, it is very poorly worded

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I think what you guys are not understanding is, you can only have limited contact during those periods. The time outside those periods is no contact other than non-sport specific, speed, agility, weights, conditions, etc. 

This is the email that was sent to the AD's. 

To:                          IHSAA Member School Principals and Athletic Administrators

From:                    Bobby Cox, Commissioner, IHSAA

Re:                         Synopsis of the 2018 Board of Directors Meeting

 

Good morning.  In concert with recent history, I wish to provide you with a brief synopsis of the actions of the IHSAA Board of Directors from their annual meeting which was conducted on Monday, April 30, 2018 as per IHSAA by-laws.  The descriptive below is intended to summarize the actions of the Board and provide reminders of action items necessary from both the IHSAA and the membership.  If I can answer any questions or provide additional clarity, please do not hesitate to contact me at your convenience.  At the end of this document, a link will appear that will take you to the minutes of the Board of Directors meeting for a greater description.  Finally, please accept our best wishes for a successful conclusion of the 2017-18 school year.

 

·         Rule 2-2 – Number of Schools in Classes

The Board approved a modification to the method of classification in team sports excluding football.  Beginning with the next reclassification cycle, a school that is initially placed into a specific class by enrollment may not be moved into another classification because of the movement of other schools due to the provisions of Rule 2-5 (Success Factor).  This may create slightly unequal numbers of schools in the classifications of each team sport.

·         Rule 7-1.4 – Mandatory Coach Accreditation

The current language in Rule 7-1.4 has been stricken and a simplified new provision has been established for mandatory coach education.  Beginning immediately, all member school coaches must complete the following NFHS Coach Education courses within a two-year period or if a new edition of the course is released, whichever comes first:

o   NFHS Concussion in Sports,

o   NFHS Heat Illness Prevention, and

o   NFHS Sudden Cardiac Arrest

 

·         Rules 50 and 101

A clarification was written into the by-laws which specifies the number of pre-participation practice sessions necessary to accomplish initial eligibility to participate in an interscholastic contest.  Should a student not complete 10 pre-participation practices at the beginning of a season due to any sort of interruption for five days or greater, the student must accomplish a minimum of four practices upon their return to reach their requisite 10 (or more) pre-participation practices.

Example:  If a student in football is absent following the completion of the fourth pre-participation practice session, then the student, upon returning from such absence, would need to attend and actively participate in six (6) more pre-participation practice sessions prior to participating in a football contest, but if the same student is absent following completion of the eighth pre-participation practice session, then the student , upon returning from such absence, would need to attend and actively participate in four (4) more pre-participation practice sessions prior to participating in a football contest.

·         Rule 15-2-2 – Soccer

The Board approved an increase of the number of students from a member school participating together on a non-school sponsored team from six (6) to seven (7) in the sport of soccer.

·         Rule 15-2.2, 15-2.4 and 15-2.5 – Participation Rule – During the School Year out of Season

After two years of study and two proposals, the Board has approved significant changes to the current open facility program provisions during the school year out of season.  The following is a summary of those changes:

1.       Open facility during the school year out of season has now been renamed “Limited Contact”.

2.       There are three distinct seasons when limited contact programming may occur for out of season sports:

Limited Contact Program

Start Date

End Date

Fall Season

Monday of Week 9

Saturday of Week 15

Winter Season

Monday of Week 23

Saturday of Week 31

Spring Season

Monday of Week 40

Saturday of Week 45

 

3.       Exception: Students in team sports who participate in a Limited Contact Program which immediately precedes that team sports’ season may continue to participate in the Limited Contact Program until that team sports’ first official practice date, i.e. a girls’ basketball player participating in the fall season Limited Contact Program may continue participation in the Limited Contact Program until the first official practice day for girls’ basketball.

4.       During a Limited Contact Program session, all coaches may work with all students in attendance.  The former restriction of coaches working with a maximum of two students at any one time has been lifted.

5.       A Limited Contact Program may be held two days a week for a maximum of two hours a day.

6.       Conditioning programs may be conducted every day of the week (excluding Sundays) exclusive of a Limited Contact Program session.

 

·         Rule 17-8.1 – General Waiver of an IHSAA Rule

In addition to Rules 4, 12 and 18 which may not be waived, Rule 8-4 and the decisions of contest officials have now been added to the list of rules that may not be waived.

·         Rule 19-6.1 – Transfer Eligibility Without Change of Residence by Parent(s)/Guardian(s)

19-6.1 o.  The proposal that would have added another exception to Rule 19-6.1 whereby a student that would transfer from one school to another school prior to their second year of high school was tabled by the Board of Directors for further study.

19-6.1 b.  Language was modified and approved in Rule 19-6.1 b which now allows for two (2) moves between divorced or separated parents but no more than two (2).

·         Rule 51-4 – Pitch Count

Rule 51-4 has been modified to eliminate the previous junior varsity pitch count chart.  Effective immediately, there is only one pitch count chart which was previously designated as the varsity pitch count chart.

·         Rules 56 & 106 - Soccer

The provisions of a soccer jamboree have been modified.  Member schools may now conduct a soccer jamboree on Saturday of Week 6 with the following alterations:

o   Soccer jamborees are to be conducted in halves not to exceed 40 minutes per half.

o   A member school may play two (s) halves in a soccer jamboree so long as those halves are against different opponents.

 

·         Rule 60 -- Wrestling

60-2 – The number of multiple school events a member school may participate in during the regular season has been reduced from seven (7) to six (6) and the maximum number of dual meets to fill a complete schedule has been raised from four (4) to six (6).

60-4 – The number of student athletes that may be entered into the sectional tournament per weight class has been increased from two (2) to three (3).

·         Rules 101 and 111 – Volleyball

The maximum number of matches a member school may contest during the regular season has been reduced from 25 plus two (2) tournaments to 23 plus two (2) tournaments.

Rule 111-4 – The maximum number of sets a student may participate in during a single session has been increased from five (5) sets to six (6) sets.

 

To access the complete minutes of the 2018 IHSAA Board of Directors Meeting, please click on the link below:

 

http://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/about%20ihsaa/minutes/2017-18/043018.Board.pdf

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ok now understand  the seasons just represent when the limited contact can take place.....

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Should be one sport at a time period, you cant give 100 percent of yourself to any sport if you are doing several of them, let alone being a student and whatever responsibilities you have at home. Time to keep it simple.

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  You just want kids to enjoy the sport their in, play as hard as they can and have it be a meaningful and impactful life experience.   Don't know if distractions like the starting practice for the next sport help that occur.   Not to mention the increased risk of injury.  Trainer I worked with once kept all sorts of data on multi-sport athletes who were trying to play club on the weekends and practice for an out of season sport before school.  Those kids get hurt much greater rate than the one sport at a time kids. 

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11 hours ago, Wedgebuster said:

  You just want kids to enjoy the sport their in, play as hard as they can and have it be a meaningful and impactful life experience.   Don't know if distractions like the starting practice for the next sport help that occur.   Not to mention the increased risk of injury.  Trainer I worked with once kept all sorts of data on multi-sport athletes who were trying to play club on the weekends and practice for an out of season sport before school.  Those kids get hurt much greater rate than the one sport at a time kids. 

The problem is the few coaches that want the in season kids to attend their off season stuff and do everything.  Nothing wrong with a kid who a starting QB on a football team stopping in the gym after the light days (usually Monday and Thursday) to get some shots up, just like there would be nothing wrong with that same kid going in a few mornings a week to throw a football with their receivers in the winter.  The issues become when the off seson coaches want more than that, and luckily for me I have not see too much of that.  It is usually bball coaches wanting them to just shoot, baseball and SB coaches wanting them to throw a little, FB coaches wanting them to throw some.  Big difference between that and telling them they need to do a full workout

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51 minutes ago, iubirdman said:

The problem is the few coaches that want the in season kids to attend their off season stuff and do everything.  Nothing wrong with a kid who a starting QB on a football team stopping in the gym after the light days (usually Monday and Thursday) to get some shots up, just like there would be nothing wrong with that same kid going in a few mornings a week to throw a football with their receivers in the winter.  The issues become when the off seson coaches want more than that, and luckily for me I have not see too much of that.  It is usually bball coaches wanting them to just shoot, baseball and SB coaches wanting them to throw a little, FB coaches wanting them to throw some.  Big difference between that and telling them they need to do a full workout

What if he sprains his ankle, or busts his knee up? HC's need to use some common sense, likewise administrators need to deal with this. Is the starting QB really going to get anything out of "putting a few shots up" in September that's going to help him in March? In-season athletes need to worry about in-season sports, nothing else. The selfish coaches who force the issue need to become a thing of the past. If a high school athlete has a light day, or a day off, they need to get some rest, eat a decent warm meal, in short get away from it for a day. 

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Whatever happened to going down to the park and playing a pickup game? The adults are usually the ones that mess everything up for the kids. Let the kids be kids if you are a good coach you should be able to be organized and able to teach your players everything they need to know during your season practice time. Too many good kids are getting burned out by the time they get to their Senior year.  I am only talking making kids show up for your extra work out not asking them if they want to significantly different.  

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2 hours ago, Downtowncl86 said:

Whatever happened to going down to the park and playing a pickup game? The adults are usually the ones that mess everything up for the kids. Let the kids be kids if you are a good coach you should be able to be organized and able to teach your players everything they need to know during your season practice time. Too many good kids are getting burned out by the time they get to their Senior year.  I am only talking making kids show up for your extra work out not asking them if they want to significantly different.  

It would be great if kids could/would go to the park to play, unfortunately, not sure how safe that is anymore!!  I remember days when we would go the park 25 years ago and half the guys playing were the local drug dealers!!  At that time they would leave us alone, but that is not the case anymore.  The days of most places going to the park to play until 10:00 are about done!!!

For the other reply about getting injured or something while in shooting or throwing, what are the odds of that??  Most are smart enough not to do anything that would create an injury risk, like playing or going live with anything, but can not see an issue with throwing for baseball/softball or football for an hour a week or shooting for an hour a week is really doing any harm--in fact in baseball it probably helps prevent injuries, keep throwing in the offseason so you are not looking to go from 9 months off to thrown as hard as you can when practice starts!!

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5 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

What if he sprains his ankle, or busts his knee up? HC's need to use some common sense, likewise administrators need to deal with this. Is the starting QB really going to get anything out of "putting a few shots up" in September that's going to help him in March? In-season athletes need to worry about in-season sports, nothing else. The selfish coaches who force the issue need to become a thing of the past. If a high school athlete has a light day, or a day off, they need to get some rest, eat a decent warm meal, in short get away from it for a day. 

I agree 100%.  The light day for the QB is supposed to be a light day for a reason.  IMO, this is another nail in the multi-sport athlete coffin.    

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16 minutes ago, tango said:

I agree 100%.  The light day for the QB is supposed to be a light day for a reason.  IMO, this is another nail in the multi-sport athlete coffin.    

The "rule" actually gives teams in the off season LESS time to work with their kids, or do you not realize that?  IF coaches and AD's are responsible and do not require in season kids to come in, there should not be a noticeable difference.  Now you could go up to 3 days a week--and up to 4 in the couple weeks leading up to the season.  This puts it at 2 days all the time.

Honest question for those opposed to kids going in to shoot or throw in the off season.  Are you fine with the FB coach who has morning (or evening) weights in their off season?

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I am fine with the coach that has morning or evening weights. My reason is getting stronger and becoming a better mover helps for all sports. It also does not start to shift that player's mind to the next season. Or it should not I would hope that the student is lifting to become a better athlete. 

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1 hour ago, Downtowncl86 said:

I am fine with the coach that has morning or evening weights. My reason is getting stronger and becoming a better mover helps for all sports. It also does not start to shift that player's mind to the next season. Or it should not I would hope that the student is lifting to become a better athlete. 

So if the player is in baseball, and they are not lifting, they can go lift for FB??  I would venture to say the odds of injury there are about the same as a kid taking 50 swings in the cage, throwing 100 pitches to find your arm slot, or getting 200 shots up on a gun.  Not sure why it would be OK for them to workout for one sport in other seasons, but not others.  Seems a little hypocritical.  Now lifting can help just about every sport, I get it, but I am not sure how it would be OK in your mind if during baseball season a kid gets hurt working out with a FB coach, but if that same kid gets hurt working out with a baseball coach during FB season that is a major issue???

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I think lifting during any sport is fine, especially if you don't have a class in school.  I'm saying that I'm fine if the baseball coach or track coach or whatever coach holding a lifting time for the athletes during their, or other seasons. I don't see it being as hypocritical at all because I'm not saying that during baseball, the football coach is having his football kids practice football instead, I'm saying the football coach is having the football kids lift during baseball because maybe the baseball coach isn't having them lift, AND at the same time, he's encouraging them to have a good baseball season.  You don't need to get the ball or equipment out.  AND it's the kid's decision to lift.  It also looks like the IHSAA has the same thinking that I do and that is that lifting is OK any time. I guess my main issues is:  I tell kids to be multi-sports athletes and when I say that I don't mean multiple sports at the same time.  I try to do what is best for OUR student-athletes.

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14 hours ago, iubirdman said:

So if the player is in baseball, and they are not lifting, they can go lift for FB??  I would venture to say the odds of injury there are about the same as a kid taking 50 swings in the cage, throwing 100 pitches to find your arm slot, or getting 200 shots up on a gun.  Not sure why it would be OK for them to workout for one sport in other seasons, but not others.  Seems a little hypocritical.  Now lifting can help just about every sport, I get it, but I am not sure how it would be OK in your mind if during baseball season a kid gets hurt working out with a FB coach, but if that same kid gets hurt working out with a baseball coach during FB season that is a major issue???

What sport within Indiana High School Sports CAN'T be helped by lifting?

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Point being you are OK with a baseball player working out with a FB coach in baseball season, but not a baseball coach working with a baseball player during football season, correct?  You do not think throwing a baseball can help a QB throw?  I like how you mention you would not want them to workout for another sport for fear of injury (odds very small if just hitting/throwing, technique out of blocks, finding a golf swing, etc) but being OK with the FB coaches doing workouts out of season when there is still a chance of injury?  Not sure why the risk of injury is OK for FB kids playing baseball in the spring, but not it the fall?

Again, the key is just using common sense at the individual school and coach level.  If a baseball coach is having their kids come in fro 2 hours on Monday and Thursday and a FB or BBall kid wants to go in, and hit or throw for 30 mins after practice, not that big of a deal.  It becomes one if the baseball coach tells them they HAVE to be there, and they are doing more than the basics.  Back in the day 25 years ago, I would go from football practice to bball open gym and never thought anything about it.

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Sticking with the "back in the day" theme, LaPorte baseball Coach Ken Schreiber instituted a rule after one of his key players busted up his ankle playing pickup basketball. If one of his players got caught playing another sport (pickup basketball, sandlot football, etc) during the baseball season, he had to run 20 miles (1-2 miles/day spread out after practices & games). Every once in awhile, you'd see a player running laps alone after a game & you'd know what that was about.

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That is fine, but I hope he did not expect his pitchers to be in throwing in the off season if they played something else!!  Unfortunately to many coaches do not want their kids doing anything in season, but want them working on their sport the entire off season which causes tension in athletic depts between coaches. 

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20 hours ago, iubirdman said:

That is fine, but I hope he did not expect his pitchers to be in throwing in the off season if they played something else!!  Unfortunately to many coaches do not want their kids doing anything in season, but want them working on their sport the entire off season which causes tension in athletic depts between coaches. 

I wasn't good enough to be more than a JV sub so I checked with my buddy who was captain & made the North-South All Star game.

Off-season commitments for LaPorte baseball were:

- Slicers summer baseball team (aka Bennett's Slicers) through mid-July (this was back before travel teams got big). Played 3-4 games a week versus local HS summer teams, St Louis Pros barnstorming squad, etc.

- Conditioning & pitchers throwing began Jan.1 for anyone NOT in a winter sport. M-F 6am. Plus, some optional hitting sessions in indoor cage after school. (This was for varsity players/invite only. As a JV scrub, I was never invited.)

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On 5/7/2018 at 1:17 PM, iubirdman said:

The "rule" actually gives teams in the off season LESS time to work with their kids, or do you not realize that?  IF coaches and AD's are responsible and do not require in season kids to come in, there should not be a noticeable difference.  Now you could go up to 3 days a week--and up to 4 in the couple weeks leading up to the season.  This puts it at 2 days all the time.

Honest question for those opposed to kids going in to shoot or throw in the off season.  Are you fine with the FB coach who has morning (or evening) weights in their off season?

I guess my concern is with the "IF".  How many ADs know if an out of season coach (or assistant) is putting pressure on kids who are playing another sport to attend the  out of season workouts?  How can they prevent it?  It's not real hard to imagine....  "Hey Jimmie - Joey was just a step behind you last basketball season and he's been coming to the off-season practices and getting shots up all week while you're out there practicing football and you're not even starting...."   

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