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which leads to the point I made that the rating system is overrated.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Irishman said:

which leads to the point I made that the rating system is overrated.

I strongly disagree.   The vast majority of recruits are rated appropriately.   it explains why results on the field follow almost identically when compared to recruiting rankings.  Sometimes mistakea are made. In retrospect, it appears that only Smith was worthy of the 5 star designation, based solely on  his career results and pure athletic talent.   

Edited by DrivenT
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On 6/14/2018 at 11:23 PM, DrivenT said:

 Indiana has never produced a 5 star athlete.  

Martin is the highest paid Guard in NFL history, and started multiple years at ND. 

Stop talking out of your butt. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

I strongly disagree.   The vast majority of recruits are rated appropriately.  

Super Bowl 49 had zero players particiapte who were 5 star rated out of HS.   And over 40 that were rated 3 stars on down.  

Edited by Coach_G
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4 hours ago, Coach_G said:

Martin is the highest paid Guard in NFL history, and started multiple years at ND. 

Stop talking out of your butt. 

Martin was a 4 star coming out of Chatard.

4 hours ago, Coach_G said:

Super Bowl 49 had zero players particiapte who were 5 star rated out of HS.   And over 40 that were rated 3 stars on down.  

Recruiting rankings are designed for college football, not the NFL

 

 

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2 hours ago, DrivenT said:

Martin was a 4 star coming out of Chatard.

Recruiting rankings are designed for college football, not the NFL

 

 

Your statement was focused on the idea that Indiana doesn’t produce elite athletes, I contradicted that assertion. 

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22 minutes ago, Coach_G said:

Your statement was focused on the idea that Indiana doesn’t produce elite athletes, I contradicted that assertion. 

I don't think you have provided any evidence or data to back up that assertion.

The facts contradict your POV.

Indiana certainly has produced its fair share of elite basketball talent.  Football however is a completely different story.

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On 6/15/2018 at 2:56 PM, silvertone1696 said:

Didn't  Aldridge move in from outta state as well? I think he only played a year or two at Merrillville.

Yes

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1 hour ago, DrivenT said:

I don't think you have provided any evidence or data to back up that assertion.

The facts contradict your POV.

Indiana certainly has produced its fair share of elite basketball talent.  Football however is a completely different story.

Dude, Indiana produced a 50 all time top NFL player, I would say that's pretty elite.. I think that says a lot. Everyone looks at OH, FL, CA, TX, GA & PA for the top talent. Need to remember those states are 2X, 3X and even 4X larger in population than Indiana. I think Indiana does a good job in producing College and NFL talent for its population base. Most kids are over rated in the high school star ranking system. It's those 3 and 4 star kids that seem to make the big contribution than those 5 stars. No stats to back that up, but bet I'm not too far off

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Posted (edited)

Indiana does not produce top level football talent, by any calculation or by any type of objective analysis.  

The state is simply not set up to be a top football talent producer.  It never has and it never will.  And that is ok, because football is not in the core "DNA" of the state sporting landscape.

First, Indiana is a basketball first state.  This reality siphons away many potential top level football players who choose to focus on hoops alone.  

Weather is a huge factor.  The benefits of having spring football are huge when it comes to developing football talent over the long term.  Without spring football, Indiana is at a huge disadvantage, and always will be.

The state's flagship university is one of the all time worst performing Division 1 football schools in the history of college football.  This reality certainly does nothing to help promote participation in the game at the lower levels.

Changing statewide demographics are having a negative impact on participation and interest and this is an irreversible trend, especially in the industrial areas in the northern part of the state that used to be prime areas for recruiters to mine talent.

A decline in the quality and depth of coaching will contribute to the continued erosion in player development.  

Administrative reallocation of athletic resources is moving in a direction away from high school football.  This is happening out of economic necessity, and thru the personal choices of schools and boards who are looking for more and better cost effective extra curricular options that benefit a broader range of their respective student bodies.

 

 

 

 

Edited by DrivenT
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Indiana produces well above it’s fair share of basketball top rated kids. Indiana is in par with NY, CA, and TX. In that regard.  

 

If you look at states comparable in size to Indiana....Massachusetts, Maryland, Minnesota...I think Indiana stacks up favorably.   I’d take Indiana’s top 11 vs the top 11 in any of those states.  

Statistically Indiana is average per capita in talent in football.  In basketball it fights well above it’s weight. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DrivenT said:

 

A decline in the quality and depth of coaching will contribute to the continued erosion in player development  

 

 

 

 

If this were true, which it’s not it would apply nationwide and therefor be moot to this conversation. 

 

In reality coaching quality is what it’s been for decades.  We often look at the past and think of better days and have rosey colored glasses thinking about a better time that never really existed.  The truth is coaching is what it’s always been. There are some rockstars, some turds, and a whole lot of medicore coaches that really care about developing young men. It was that way in the 60s, it was that way in the 80s, and it’s that way in the 2010s. 

Edited by Coach_G
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1 hour ago, Coach_G said:

If this were true, which it’s not it would apply nationwide and therefor be moot to this conversation. 

 

In reality coaching quality is what it’s been for decades.  We often look at the past and think of better days and have rosey colored glasses thinking about a better time that never really existed.  The truth is coaching is what it’s always been. There are some rockstars, some turds, and a whole lot of medicore coaches that really care about developing young men. It was that way in the 60s, it was that way in the 80s, and it’s that way in the 2010s. 

That type of thinking is typical of those who place no value on experience

It's not worth the time nor effort trying to convince them otherwise.

I was fortunate to come up during a time when experience, respect for authority, and a clear understanding of the relationship between coach and student athlete were clearly understood.  It was the best of times.  

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I have had coaches in states with Spring ball tell me they much rather have Indiana's rules in off season vs their silly 2 week spring ball 

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14 hours ago, DrivenT said:

That type of thinking is typical of those who place no value on experience

It's not worth the time nor effort trying to convince them otherwise.  

 

There are people in every time and every land who want to stop history in its tracks. They fear the future, mistrust the present, and invoke the security of the comfortable past which, in fact, never existed. - Robert Kennedy

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2 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I have had coaches in states with Spring ball tell me they much rather have Indiana's rules in off season vs their silly 2 week spring ball 

What States are those?

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On 6/16/2018 at 9:24 PM, Coach_G said:

Indiana produces well above it’s fair share of basketball top rated kids. Indiana is in par with NY, CA, and TX. In that regard.  

 

If you look at states comparable in size to Indiana....Massachusetts, Maryland, Minnesota...I think Indiana stacks up favorably.   I’d take Indiana’s top 11 vs the top 11 in any of those states.  

Statistically Indiana is average per capita in talent in football.  In basketball it fights well above it’s weight. 

Indiana is considered by many a Top 10 wrestling state

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3 hours ago, brclark34 said:

Indiana is considered by many a Top 10 wrestling state

Thanks for the info.  I will plead ignorance on national wrestling understanding.  

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21 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

What States are those?

Alabama 

Florida

California 

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3 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Alabama 

Florida

California 

Coach Nowlin knows that no high school coach in a spring football state would trade schedules with the Indiana model.  

Unless that coach is looking for an easier path and a lighter workload.

 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

Coach Nowlin knows that no high school coach in a spring football state would trade schedules with the Indiana model.  

Unless that coach is looking for an easier path and a lighter workload.

 

 

 

Didn’t he JUST say he knows?  

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I appreciate Coach Nowlin's fierce support of his fellow assistant coaches, and for his defense of all things that pertain to Indiana high school football.  He always sees the cup as half full, which is an admirable quality.  

 

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6 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

I appreciate Coach Nowlin's fierce support of his fellow assistant coaches, and for his defense of all things that pertain to Indiana high school football.  He always sees the cup as half full, which is an admirable quality.  

 

I think it's more likely that he sees the cup as refillable.

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To each their own I guess.  

 

Some of these Spring ball states get 10 total practices and 1 scrimmage and then nothing in the summer months like that leading into August,  

We have already had 6 practices, some in Pro Pads, others on air.   By the end of the summer we will have had 6 controlled competition days as we were invited to IFOA clinic to go 11/11 Thud session with Sheridan which is an exempt day from IHSAA.   

We meet 3 days a week 12 total pro padded sessions and unlimited non pad work from End of May thru End of July.    

Take that vs 10 total days in April with a scrimmage .........   with athletes having to choose between TF and Baseball or 2 weeks or 10 days of "Spring Ball" 

Like I said I was told they would trade that for what I just described above in a heart beat.  

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