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Butter Bean

The next reclassification

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On 7/25/2018 at 4:20 PM, football dog said:

Is it a law in Ohio the once a school gets so big, they have to split it?

Not sure about a law.  Here is a link to the largest schools in Ohio (the first 2 listed are online schools).  https://www.publicschoolreview.com/school-size-stats/ohio/high

The biggest school is Mason (where Kings Island is) at 3500.  Then, it drops into the 2700 range.

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I don’t think there is a legal requirement in Ohio regarding school enrollment.  Some of the rapidly growing districts, like Olentangy for example, have added schools rather than follow the Carmel model.  That district north of Columbus is very similar to Carmel, so it gives some idea of what may have occurred here if Carmel Clay Schools had elected to add another high school.  Olentangy is up to 4 high schools now, all of which would be 4A in everything but football in Indiana.  I think they would all be 5A in football here.

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On 7/25/2018 at 1:16 PM, Irishman said:

They saw what splitting did to Lawrence and Perry Townships when a second high school was added

... and what was that?

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28 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

... and what was that?

That they were not competitive in most sports for quite some time. 

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I just read on the IPS website that Indianapolis Tech anticipates an enrollment of 2300 this year which would easily put Tech in the 6A class.

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Posted (edited)
On August 1, 2018 at 9:37 AM, HoopsCoach said:

I don’t think there is a legal requirement in Ohio regarding school enrollment.  Some of the rapidly growing districts, like Olentangy for example, have added schools rather than follow the Carmel model.  That district north of Columbus is very similar to Carmel, so it gives some idea of what may have occurred here if Carmel Clay Schools had elected to add another high school.  Olentangy is up to 4 high schools now, all of which would be 4A in everything but football in Indiana.  I think they would all be 5A in football here.

Olentangy Berlin just opened last year, joining Olentangy HS, Olentangy Liberty and Olentangy Orange.  

On the west side, similar situation with Hilliard Davidson, Hilliard Darby and Hilliard Bradley, all around 1800 students. Dublin has Dublin Coffman, Dublin Sciota and Dublin Jerome

Westerville on the northeast side has South, Central and North, again all around 1800-2000 students. 

Edited by DrivenT

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5 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

Olentangy Berlin just opened last year, joining Olentangy HS, Olentangy Liberty and Olentangy Orange.  

On the west side, similar situation with Hilliard Davidson, Hilliard Darby and Hilliard Bradley, all around 1800 students. Dublin has Dublin Coffman, Dublin Sciota and Dublin Jerome

Westerville on the northeast side has South, Central and North, again all around 1800-2000 students. 

The growth in the Columbus area reminds me a little of what we have seen with Carmel, HSE/Fishers, and Brownsburg/Avon.  Obviously there are differences in how the districts are split up and how each district has handled their growth, but there are some similar trends.

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On 7/24/2018 at 12:12 AM, psaboy said:

I'm guessing that Snider will petition to stay in 6A. if that happens how is it determined if they won or loss that case??

😂😂😂

Why would they do that?  Makes zero sense.  Won’t happen.

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35 minutes ago, scarletknights said:

😂😂😂

Why would they do that?  Makes zero sense.  Won’t happen.

Its in their DNA to compete at the highest level.  

Beating Columbus East or New Pal pales in comparison to a win over Carmel, Warren or Ben Davis.  

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On 8/6/2018 at 11:02 PM, DrivenT said:

Its in their DNA to compete at the highest level.  

Beating Columbus East or New Pal pales in comparison to a win over Carmel, Warren or Ben Davis.  

I don’t know about that.  They were in 5A for the first two cycles that 6A has been in existence.  They didn’t elect to play up during either of those cycles.  Snider played in the last 5A state title game before the move to 6 classes.

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On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 10:10 AM, Butter Bean said:

Who’s going to move into 6A from 5A with the next reclassification?   With IPS closing four high schools, will Indianapolis Tech move up?   Will the merging of the Elkhart high schools be in effect?   Who might move up from success points?  

Speaking of success points,  does anyone know if Linton will ask to stay in 2A or are they moving back to 1A next year?  I think they would have to win semi-state to have enough points to stay in 2A.

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15 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

Speaking of success points,  does anyone know if Linton will ask to stay in 2A or are they moving back to 1A next year?  I think they would have to win semi-state to have enough points to stay in 2A.

They need three points, a semi-state win, to stay in 2A by Success Factor rules since they dropped the second round sectional game to Southridge last season.  On the other hand, they only need about 14 additional students, assuming all other things equal with the top part of 1A to get into those 2A numbers.  What's the predicted class size in the incoming freshman?  Last year's numbers put them at 381, which would put them in line with Perry-Central, Lake Station, Knightstown, and Cloverdale at the last reclassification.  Perry Central was down to 369 last year, Lake Station was down to 378, Knightstown was down to 373, and Cloverdale was down to 369.  If that holds true this time around, then that's four 2A teams over Linton now that will be under them by enrollment.  Similarly, Winamac, the top 1A school in enrollment last classification is down to 363 last year from 377 at last classification.  Eastern Greene, Seeger, and Adams Central, the next three after Winamac had the following happen ... same at 377, up to 382 from 375, up to 378 from 375.  That still puts three of the top four current 1A schools below Linton with another four 2A schools below Linton.  Given those numbers, Linton may well end up in 2A regardless of tourney play this season. 

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2 hours ago, foxbat said:

They need three points, a semi-state win, to stay in 2A by Success Factor rules since they dropped the second round sectional game to Southridge last season.  On the other hand, they only need about 14 additional students, assuming all other things equal with the top part of 1A to get into those 2A numbers.  What's the predicted class size in the incoming freshman?  Last year's numbers put them at 381, which would put them in line with Perry-Central, Lake Station, Knightstown, and Cloverdale at the last reclassification.  Perry Central was down to 369 last year, Lake Station was down to 378, Knightstown was down to 373, and Cloverdale was down to 369.  If that holds true this time around, then that's four 2A teams over Linton now that will be under them by enrollment.  Similarly, Winamac, the top 1A school in enrollment last classification is down to 363 last year from 377 at last classification.  Eastern Greene, Seeger, and Adams Central, the next three after Winamac had the following happen ... same at 377, up to 382 from 375, up to 378 from 375.  That still puts three of the top four current 1A schools below Linton with another four 2A schools below Linton.  Given those numbers, Linton may well end up in 2A regardless of tourney play this season. 

Effective last November 1, Linton's 9 through 12 enrollment was 380.  Grade 12 was 91.  Grade 8 was 114.  So if those figures would translate to this year (and I have no idea if the will) Linton would have a net gain of 23 students to 403.  

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1 hour ago, kingtut said:

Effective last November 1, Linton's 9 through 12 enrollment was 380.  Grade 12 was 91.  Grade 8 was 114.  So if those figures would translate to this year (and I have no idea if the will) Linton would have a net gain of 23 students to 403.  

Well that pretty much answers that.  Linton will stay in 2A regardless of how much success they have this year in the tournament.

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On 8/6/2018 at 10:26 PM, scarletknights said:

😂😂😂

Why would they do that?  Makes zero sense.  Won’t happen.

Snider wants to play with the best of the best. 5A doesn't challenge them as much as 6A does, so it makes perfect sense to me.

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4 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Snider wants to play with the best of the best. 5A doesn't challenge them as much as 6A does, so it makes perfect sense to me.

I repeat...They were in 5A for the first two cycles that 6A has been in existence.  They didn’t elect to play up during either of those cycles.  This was after playing in the last 5A final before the addition of 6A.

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I say... I don't think you can petition to stay up in class above your "selected" class, until you receive the ability to move up to that class. You have to earn it to request to stay at, in other words. 

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26 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I say... I don't think you can petition to stay up in class above your "selected" class, until you receive the ability to move up to that class. You have to earn it to request to stay at, in other words. 

During the 15-16 and 16-17 alignment, South Bend Washington’s boys basketball team elected to play up in 4A, while their girls basketball team stayed in 3A.  Their boys basketball team was never bumped up to 4A, so they never “earned it.”  I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is any prerequisite for a school to elect to play up.

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You can and always have been allowed to petition to a higher classification.

  • Upvote 1

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, HoopsCoach said:

During the 15-16 and 16-17 alignment, South Bend Washington’s boys basketball team elected to play up in 4A, while their girls basketball team stayed in 3A.  Their boys basketball team was never bumped up to 4A, so they never “earned it.”  I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is any prerequisite for a school to elect to play up.

High School basketball in Indiana doesn;t have a "success" factor for class assignment.

So, please clarify what you are talking about.

 

Edited by psaboy

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Just now, psaboy said:

High School basketball inn Indiana doesn;t have a "success" factor for class assignment.

So, please clarify what you are talking about.

 

High school basketball absolutely does have a success factor in Indiana.  Every sport with classes does. Baseball, softball, volleyball, soccer, etc.  The only sports that don’t are the one class sports (wrestling, track and field, etc.) because there isn’t a class to bump to.

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My bad, just never heard of it other than football. Back to the originally, IMO, Snider will petition to stay in 6A of they don;t earn after this year.

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8 hours ago, psaboy said:

My bad, just never heard of it other than football. Back to the originally, IMO, Snider will petition to stay in 6A of they don;t earn after this year.

I would love to be able to place a bet on this. Will not happen.  I’m guessing Coach Tippman would tell you that 5A provides plenty of a challenge. 

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1 hour ago, scarletknights said:

I would love to be able to place a bet on this. Will not happen.  I’m guessing Coach Tippman would tell you that 5A provides plenty of a challenge. 

I agree. 5A could include Cathedral, New Pal, Roncalli, Lafayette Jeff (who will be loaded), and East Central depending on how this year’s state tournament plays out.

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I think what PSAboy is saying as a fan of Snider is that most of us would much prefer Snider stay in 6A and compete in that class. Nobody is saying 5A is easy, far from it, but we believe that compete well in 6A. Nothing more, nothing less...

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