Temp’s Top 25 (8/20/22)

[PDB26]

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

Your logic seems pretty solid there. If someone had the time and the effort, they probably could go back through scores and give a pretty good ballpark number as to where enrollment discrepancies cease to make a significant difference in determining games. 

Penn's problem is indicative of what @BTF is getting at. They are far too big to be playing the schools they do in the NIC. They've tried to mitigate it by playing a tough noncon schedule, but the truth is that playing in that conference is the main factor why they've fallen from grace statewide. You are who you play against. 

You absolutely are who you play against. I've been saying this forever.

1 minute ago, Muda69 said:

No, I haven't. Sounds like the Carmel/Zionsville of the North.

Basically, but less developed. 

[PDB26]

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Nor enrollment.

Penn needs to get out and play a big boy football schedule.

Nobody could credulously say a school with over 3000 students has an enrollment issue. In a vacuum, or the suburbs, 2000 should be enough in 6A.

I've always maintained that Penn's program has been damaged most by its conference affiliation. You'll get no argument from me on that issue.

[GOLDRUSH1985]

3 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Your logic seems pretty solid there. If someone had the time and the effort, they probably could go back through scores and give a pretty good ballpark number as to where enrollment discrepancies cease to make a significant difference in determining games. 

Penn's problem is indicative of what @BTF is getting at. They are far too big to be playing the schools they do in the NIC. They've tried to mitigate it by playing a tough noncon schedule, but the truth is that playing in that conference is the main factor why they've fallen from grace statewide. You are who you play against. 

I don't believe this , Penn won 5 state titles playing the same NIC teams . Penn has not been the same since Coach Geesman retired . Penn was always well prepared for state title games under Geesman . Under Yeoman , when they did get there (aside from 2015) they have the deer in the headlights look.

[scarab527]

1 minute ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I don't believe this , Penn won 5 state titles playing the same NIC teams . Penn has not been the same since Coach Geesman retired . Penn was always well prepared for state title games under Geesman . Under Yeoman , when they did get there (aside from 2015) they have the deer in the headlights look.

Yeah, but they won 3 of those in the first 5 years of the formation of the MIC. 20+ years since nothing. The teams from Indy started playing better competition more consistently, year after year. The level of play in Indy got better and better, until they left Penn in the dust. Same thing with the HCC. 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

Yeah, but they won 3 of those in the first 5 years of the formation of the MIC. 20+ years since nothing. The teams from Indy started playing better competition more consistently, year after year. The level of play in Indy got better and better, until they left Penn in the dust. Same thing with the HCC. 

How long has Yeoman been Penn's Coach ???

[Footballking16]

7 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I don't believe this , Penn won 5 state titles playing the same NIC teams . Penn has not been the same since Coach Geesman retired . Penn was always well prepared for state title games under Geesman . Under Yeoman , when they did get there (aside from 2015) they have the deer in the headlights look.

Penn used to have an enrollment advantage over all but 2-3 schools in Indiana. That has dwindled as there are now several schools with 3000+ students. Competition in Indy is elite almost every week whereas it’s not in the NIC.

[scarab527]

1 minute ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

How long has Yeoman been Penn's Coach ???

You're gonna have a hard time convincing me a coach that's 140 games over .500 and has taken his teams to 4 state championships isn't good at what he does. 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

You're gonna have a hard time convincing me a coach that's 140 games over .500 and has taken his teams to 4 state championships isn't good at what he does. 

Geesman's last season (2002) he beat BD 30-14 . The very next year , Penn makes it to state with Yeoman in charge(Geesman's players) and gets taken to the woodshed by Warren . What is Yeomans record the last 3 seasons ?

[GOLDRUSH1985]

6 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

You're gonna have a hard time convincing me a coach that's 140 games over .500 and has taken his teams to 4 state championships isn't good at what he does. 

I'm not trying to convince you of anything , just stating my opinion from having been around the program for 43 years . 

[PDB26]

24 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I don't believe this , Penn won 5 state titles playing the same NIC teams . Penn has not been the same since Coach Geesman retired . Penn was always well prepared for state title games under Geesman . Under Yeoman , when they did get there (aside from 2015) they have the deer in the headlights look.

Even if the NIC was the same today as it was back then, you're ignoring 20 years of growth, development, and competition in the Indy area. I don't think you can ignore those facts.

10 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Geesman's last season (2002) he beat BD 30-14 . The very next year , Penn makes it to state with Yeoman in charge(Geesman's players) and gets taken to the woodshed by Warren . What is Yeomans record the last 3 seasons ?

Gees is a legend. His staffs were tremendous. He wasn't infallible. I'd refer you to the 2002 Regional for that. 

I don't think that Gees would have made a difference in the 2003 championship. Warren's option game was a bad matchup for that year's defense. Plus, are we supposed to congratulate Gees for his former players getting to state, but then blame Yeoman for the team's performance in that game only?

[GOLDRUSH1985]

18 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

Even if the NIC was the same today as it was back then, you're ignoring 20 years of growth, development, and competition in the Indy area. I don't think you can ignore those facts.

Gees is a legend. His staffs were tremendous. He wasn't infallible. I'd refer you to the 2002 Regional for that. 

I don't think that Gees would have made a difference in the 2003 championship. Warren's option game was a bad matchup for that year's defense. Plus, are we supposed to congratulate Gees for his former players getting to state, but then blame Yeoman for the team's performance in that game only?

Yes , its a coaches job to have the players ready for big games . Your right in one regard as Penn did not have the talent to beat Warren in 2003 regardless of the coach . But betting beat by 50 or 20 is much different . Brian Kelly was a good coach at Notre Dame , but he couldn't win the big game . And 2003 is not the only year I'm talking about . Look at 2004 Semistate, the Carmel state beating . 

[Bobref]

45 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

I don't think that Gees would have made a difference in the 2003 championship. Warren's option game was a bad matchup for that year's defense.

 

14 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Your right in one regard as Penn did not have the talent to beat Warren in 2003 regardless of the coach .

That game remains one of the most vivid memories of my career, and the best overall performance I ever saw by a high school team.

[BTF]

1 hour ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Yes , its a coaches job to have the players ready for big games . Your right in one regard as Penn did not have the talent to beat Warren in 2003 regardless of the coach . But betting beat by 50 or 20 is much different . Brian Kelly was a good coach at Notre Dame , but he couldn't win the big game . And 2003 is not the only year I'm talking about . Look at 2004 Semistate, the Carmel state beating . 

Much respect for Penn, but they weren't beating Snider that year even with Geesman. Good to have Penn guys back on the forum, you've been pretty quiet the past few years. 

[temptation]

Correct that SES is not Penn’s problem.  They are no longer the bully on the block to their northern Indiana counterparts though.

Don’t want to pick on Penn anymore though.  I want my question answered.

Why will Tech NEVER become CG?

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

 

That game remains one of the most vivid memories of my career, and the best overall performance I ever saw by a high school team.

Still maintain they could have scored 100.

Edited August 23, 2022 by temptation

[BDGiant93]

6 hours ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Of coarse your not going down any rabbit holes , you can't because you've never actually played a minute of high school football but think you know it all . I used to tell my kids the same thing when they were 16 . 

Not sure what playing football has to do with the fact that teams outside of Hamilton County haven't been within 12 points of the South Semi-State Champs since your Kingsmen's win in 2000 in the largest class. No, it's not all about Championships, but I believe the point was that 6A would be better if someone outside the Indy area was better.

I never played high school football either, though. What do I know?

[GOLDRUSH1985]

1 hour ago, BDGiant93 said:

Not sure what playing football has to do with the fact that teams outside of Hamilton County haven't been within 12 points of the South Semi-State Champs since your Kingsmen's win in 2000 in the largest class. No, it's not all about Championships, but I believe the point was that 6A would be better if someone outside the Indy area was better.

I never played high school football either, though. What do I know?

In most years there might be a handfull of teams that can come within 12 points of the 6A champ. In 2017 when BD and Penn played for the title, Penn whipped Carmel 34-7 in the Northern Semistate only to get thrashed by BD in the title game. BD beat every team it played that year by more than 12 points accept WC. Same thing can be said about any of the big 3 in the MIC. On any given year , there are only maybe 3-4 teams that can stay within 2 TDS of the 6A champ that year. 

[Boilernation]

4 hours ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

IMO , the problem at Penn is coaching period . 

Has the leadership in the District as well as fans grown apathetic to mediocrity? 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

1 hour ago, Boilernation said:

Has the leadership in the District as well as fans grown apathetic to mediocrity? 

I hope not. Penn has the athletes to compete with the Indy schools. They are competitive in other sports. Usually top 10 every year in Wrestling and we just won another baseball state title 2 months ago. Hopefully someone will get this football program figured out . 

[Yuccaguy]

Has this turned into a "Penn Kingsmen thread" and no one noticed?

Let's see how this year's 6A Sectional plays out, then remainder of 6A North before we count out anyone.

I am actually prepped for a Northern surprise this year.....

 

[temptation]

8 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Has this turned into a "Penn Kingsmen thread" and no one noticed?

Let's see how this year's 6A Sectional plays out, then remainder of 6A North before we count out anyone.

I am actually prepped for a Northern surprise this year.....

 

Yes, it went off the rails when @GOLDRUSH1985 got drunk, broke out his letter jacket, dusted off his VCR and started reliving his glory days while daring anyone without a blue ring to challenge his intelligence.

[GOLDRUSH1985]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Yes, it went off the rails when @GOLDRUSH1985 got drunk, broke out his letter jacket, dusted off his VCR and started reliving his glory days while daring anyone without a blue ring to challenge his intelligence.

LOL

[Muda69]

3 hours ago, temptation said:

Yes, it went off the rails when @GOLDRUSH1985 got drunk, broke out his letter jacket, dusted off his VCR and started reliving his glory days while daring anyone without a blue ring to challenge his intelligence.

[ragdoll]

20 hours ago, Bobref said:

 

That game remains one of the most vivid memories of my career, and the best overall performance I ever saw by a high school team.

Was at field level end zone at CG for semistate against Warren. Warriors were so dominant on defense. Graham may be the best defensive player I have seen in person. And that CG team was very good with a lot of multi-year starting seniors that ran all over a strong Reitz team in the bowl on a Friday night the week before. 

[temptation]

2 hours ago, ragdoll said:

Was at field level end zone at CG for semistate against Warren. Warriors were so dominant on defense. Graham may be the best defensive player I have seen in person. And that CG team was very good with a lot of multi-year starting seniors that ran all over a strong Reitz team in the bowl on a Friday night the week before. 

Crazy looking back that CG traveled to Reitz for a regional contest and hosted WARREN for a semi state contest, lol. 

[MonkeyButt]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:55 PM, temptation said:

Who would you rank in front of them?  Who else could stay within single digits of the team that has won 29 in a row?

Yes sir.

I think there are several that could. CG isn't as good as they were last year, and WC has to prove they can produce offensively which has been a challenge for the program since 2018. Ben Davis went against a really good Brownsburg team. Carmel I think is comparative to any of them losing to a really good Trinity team. CG struggled to get in the end zone until the 2nd half, which has been WCs MO for the last several years; very little offensive production so the defense is on the field too long and too much so wearing them down is inevitable.

And we are talking about power rankings, not class rankings, so Merrillville could go above them, New Pall, Decatur Central, I'd even say LC and LN until WC can beat one of them, which they have struggled with both teams in the past two years. So yeah I'd say that there are several teams deserving of being above WC. Do I think they still have the potential to make a run? Yes, but they have to get the offense going and give the defense a rest.