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Muda69

What to know about the Indiana judges who were shot at a White Castle

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I have no idea, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet he's just a normal dude. Perhaps you're the anomaly here Muda?

Personally I've been to professional training events, and have managed to not only learn a little, but have a little fun while there. I just don't see the issue.  

Guess I lean more toward Muda on this one IO.  I expect a certain level of wisdom from judges....the same judges that hold some fate of others in their hands.

I think many of us have told our children that nothing good happens after midnight.....that is wisdom.  That goes especially at 3:20am at a strip club and a White Castle parking lot, that involved an altercation.  Wonder if alcohol contributed to the decision-making and "wisdom"?  

No prude here....and no introvert.  Give guys in their mid to late 40's kudos for still tearing up past 3am and willing to "throw down" when boobs and sliders weren't available.  But in my mind, could have easily been avoided.....characters out that time of night are not always the "good guys". Kind of loses any credibility if they lecture people in their courtrooms in the future for public intoxication and fighting.

Just glad they are going to recover and the bad guys have been arrested.

Edited by TrojanDad
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40 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Guess I lean more toward Muda on this one IO.  I expect a certain level of wisdom from judges....the same judges that hold some fate of others in their hands.

I think many of us have told our children that nothing good happens after midnight.....that is wisdom.  That goes especially at 3:20am at a strip club and a White Castle parking lot, that involved an altercation.  Wonder if alcohol contributed to the decision-making and "wisdom"?  

No prude here....and no introvert.  Give guys in their mid to late 40's kudos for still tearing up past 3am and willing to "throw down" when boobs and sliders weren't available.  But in my mind, could have easily been avoided.....characters out that time of night are not always the "good guys". Kind of loses any credibility if they lecture people in their courtrooms in the future for public intoxication and fighting.

Just glad they are going to recover and the bad guys have been arrested.

Are you suggesting that you NEVER are out past midnight anymore?  You do not EVER go out for an evening with family or friends where you are stay out until the early morning hours? If so, I think you part of a fairly small minority, at least for people below the age of 75.  

There is no indication that these judges make a habit of partying to all hours of the night. All indications are that it was a special occasion for them:  a chance to go out with some friends with whom they were attending the same out of town conference.  

Your comment also implies certain facts that I have not seen reported. The news reports said they'd gone to some bars prior to the incident, but I don't recall seeing any news reports indicating that either of the judges was believed to be intoxicated.

Maybe I am the prude here, but I typically drink in moderation when I am out on the town ("bar hopping"), here in Indy or anywhere else I may be. Having a good time doesn't equate (to me) to drinking to the level of being intoxicated. Likewise, staying out late with friends doesn't equate (to me) to being out looking for trouble; it usually equates to having an enjoyable time with enjoyable company, such that no one's in hurry to see the night end. 

And as for the "fighting": if some guy physically assaulted me on the street, I would seem reasonable for me to try to defend myself. I don't think it would strike me as completely accurate to accuse me of "fighting" in public in that situation; more like, protecting myself in public from a criminal. 

The only part of this that makes me cringe is that they were apparently trying to get into the Red Garter prior to this incident. I'm not a fan of married men -- really any men, but especially married men -- going to strip clubs (or going without their wives, if they're into that sort of thing 😉). But I don't reasonably expect everyone to follow my position on that, especially since strip bars are legal establishments. 

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Wabash82 said:

Are you suggesting that you NEVER are out past midnight anymore?  You do not EVER go out for an evening with family or friends where you are stay out until the early morning hours? If so, I think you part of a fairly small minority, at least for people below the age of 75.  

There is no indication that these judges make a habit of partying to all hours of the night. All indications are that it was a special occasion for them:  a chance to go out with some friends with whom they were attending the same out of town conference.  

Your comment also implies certain facts that I have not seen reported. The news reports said they'd gone to some bars prior to the incident, but I don't recall seeing any news reports indicating that either of the judges was believed to be intoxicated.

Maybe I am the prude here, but I typically drink in moderation when I am out on the town ("bar hopping"), here in Indy or anywhere else I may be. Having a good time doesn't equate (to me) to drinking to the level of being intoxicated. Likewise, staying out late with friends doesn't equate (to me) to being out looking for trouble; it usually equates to having an enjoyable time with enjoyable company, such that no one's in hurry to see the night end. 

And as for the "fighting": if some guy physically assaulted me on the street, I would seem reasonable for me to try to defend myself. I don't think it would strike me as completely accurate to accuse me of "fighting" in public in that situation; more like, protecting myself in public from a criminal. 

The only part of this that makes me cringe is that they were apparently trying to get into the Red Garter prior to this incident. I'm not a fan of married men -- really any men, but especially married men -- going to strip clubs (or going without their wives, if they're into that sort of thing 😉). But I don't reasonably expect everyone to follow my position on that, especially since strip bars are legal establishments. 

I have to agree with TD here, I believe this does bring their judgement into question, there are way nicer places.

I'm not going to lie here fellas, strip clubs just don't hold the appeal to me that they did when I was a few years younger. That being said showing up at a strip club with a couple of lesbians and buying one of them a lap dance......well that's a game changer.

 

Edited by Impartial_Observer
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2 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

the bad guys have been arrested.

Just who are the "bad guys?". Pretty quick to pass judgement while the investigation is ongoing isn't it? 

https://www.wthr.com/article/prosecutor-additional-investigation-needed-filing-charges-judges-shooting

FTA: "The Marion County Prosecutor’s Office notified the court Friday that the State does not intend, at this time, to file charges in this matter."

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2 hours ago, Wabash82 said:

Are you suggesting that you NEVER are out past midnight anymore?  You do not EVER go out for an evening with family or friends where you are stay out until the early morning hours? If so, I think you part of a fairly small minority, at least for people below the age of 75.  

There is no indication that these judges make a habit of partying to all hours of the night. All indications are that it was a special occasion for them:  a chance to go out with some friends with whom they were attending the same out of town conference.  

Your comment also implies certain facts that I have not seen reported. The news reports said they'd gone to some bars prior to the incident, but I don't recall seeing any news reports indicating that either of the judges was believed to be intoxicated.

Maybe I am the prude here, but I typically drink in moderation when I am out on the town ("bar hopping"), here in Indy or anywhere else I may be. Having a good time doesn't equate (to me) to drinking to the level of being intoxicated. Likewise, staying out late with friends doesn't equate (to me) to being out looking for trouble; it usually equates to having an enjoyable time with enjoyable company, such that no one's in hurry to see the night end. 

And as for the "fighting": if some guy physically assaulted me on the street, I would seem reasonable for me to try to defend myself. I don't think it would strike me as completely accurate to accuse me of "fighting" in public in that situation; more like, protecting myself in public from a criminal. 

The only part of this that makes me cringe is that they were apparently trying to get into the Red Garter prior to this incident. I'm not a fan of married men -- really any men, but especially married men -- going to strip clubs (or going without their wives, if they're into that sort of thing 😉). But I don't reasonably expect everyone to follow my position on that, especially since strip bars are legal establishments. 

I was repeating a very old saying....not my quote.  I am occasionally out past midnight...rarely.  No, I am not out hitting bars and strip joints, looking for munchies at 3:30am.  To each his own.

Never said anything in reference to the habits of the judges.  Perhaps it was an isolated event.  Isolated or not, I think most people acknowledge potential risk increases at certain times of the day/night.  I am guessing they know this as well.

Again, if you choose to party until 3:30am, good for you.  I am guessing your understand the risk is different that time of the morning in a major metropolitan area.

I was actually giving them the benefit of the doubt of being intoxicated and that was the reason they got into the altercation.  I would have hoped wise men could avoid altercations....especially that time of the morning.  

Are you making an assumption the judges were attacked for no reason and they are purely victims intending to defend themselves?  Perhaps that is true....which again could have been avoided had they not been there in the first place.  Again, it goes to judgment.

Not saying you are wrong for your thoughts, or that I am right....but I do believe this incident was easily preventable....

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1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

Just who are the "bad guys?". Pretty quick to pass judgement while the investigation is ongoing isn't it? 

https://www.wthr.com/article/prosecutor-additional-investigation-needed-filing-charges-judges-shooting

FTA: "The Marion County Prosecutor’s Office notified the court Friday that the State does not intend, at this time, to file charges in this matter."

Thanks for the update....last I had read they had been arrested.

My comment in my last post was in general about the characters out that time of morning....not specific to these 2 people.  

Based off these comments though and assuming accurate, at least one of these 2 men sure don't seem like a nice fella..............

According to court records, Vazquez and Kaiser had been drinking at the Kilroy's on S. Meridian Street prior to the shooting. After being asked to leave, they drove to the White Castle near Illinois and South streets after 3 a.m. on May 1.  There they got into an argument and then a fight with judges Andrew Adams and Bradley Jacobs.During that fight, Kaiser pulled a gun and shot Judge Adams in the stomachVazquez was struggling with Judge Jacobs and Vazquez told detectives Kaiser walked up and shot Jacobs in the chest.  Jacobs fell to the ground and while Vazquez was still holding him, Vazquez told police Kaiser put the gun to the center of Jacobs' chest and fired again.

https://www.wthr.com/article/police-release-mugshots-2-men-arrested-shooting-2-clark-county-judges

 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I was repeating a very old saying....not my quote.  I am occasionally out past midnight...rarely.  No, I am not out hitting bars and strip joints, looking for munchies at 3:30am.  To each his own.

Never said anything in reference to the habits of the judges.  Perhaps it was an isolated event.  Isolated or not, I think most people acknowledge potential risk increases at certain times of the day/night.  I am guessing they know this as well.

Again, if you choose to party until 3:30am, good for you.  I am guessing you understand the risk is different that time of the morning in a major metropolitan area.

I was actually giving them the benefit of the doubt of being intoxicated and that was the reason they got into the altercation.  I would have hoped wise men could avoid altercations....especially that time of the morning.  

Are you making an assumption the judges were attacked for no reason and they are purely victims intending to defend themselves?  Perhaps that is true....which again could have been avoided had they not been there in the first place.  Again, it goes to judgment.

Not saying you are wrong for your thoughts, or that I am right....but I do believe this incident was easily preventable....

I do want to reiterate, I am glad they are going to pull through being shot at what seems very close range.  I am sure this was a life changing moment, and very glad for them and their families that the are going to live to tell this story.

Edited by TrojanDad

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

My comment in my last post was in general about the characters out that time of morning....not specific to these 2 people.  

No it wasn't:

 

4 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

Just glad they are going to recover and the bad guys have been arrested.

 

Edited by gonzoron
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13 hours ago, gonzoron said:

No it wasn't:

 

 

They were absolutely arrested....and according to articles reporting the arrest, one shot both men.  So yeah, based on exactly what I read, they don't seem like nice guys.  Perhaps multiple news sources got it wrong and the city police dept got it wrong.

And if it wasn't these guys pulling the trigger....the 2 judges did not shoot themselves....I hope they find the bad guys that did pull the trigger.

The point is the same....bad guys commit many crimes at this time of day.  

Would you kindly do me this favor?

 

 

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Recovering over the weekend from a long vacation, I fell asleep in the lazy boy Saturday night early, must have been 7:30ish. Woke up about 3:00am, hungry. So I headed to Waffle House about 3:30. Oddly enough a nice policeman pulled out and followed my for about the last mile and a half of my journey all the way to the parking lot. 

Long story short TD, while I understand what you're saying about a criminal element in the early morning hours, I didn't see anyone in the Waffle House that fit the bill, other than possibly the cook, he was a surely lookin dude. 

And I apologize for not contacting you about going to the Waffle House @gonzoron it was a last minute decision.

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46 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Recovering over the weekend from a long vacation, I fell asleep in the lazy boy Saturday night early, must have been 7:30ish. Woke up about 3:00am, hungry. So I headed to Waffle House about 3:30. Oddly enough a nice policeman pulled out and followed my for about the last mile and a half of my journey all the way to the parking lot. 

Long story short TD, while I understand what you're saying about a criminal element in the early morning hours, I didn't see anyone in the Waffle House that fit the bill, other than possibly the cook, he was a surely lookin dude. 

And I apologize for not contacting you about going to the Waffle House @gonzoron it was a last minute decision.

Best not to ask for no powdered sugar on your french toast in that case.  😄

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3 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Recovering over the weekend from a long vacation, I fell asleep in the lazy boy Saturday night early, must have been 7:30ish. Woke up about 3:00am, hungry. So I headed to Waffle House about 3:30. Oddly enough a nice policeman pulled out and followed my for about the last mile and a half of my journey all the way to the parking lot. 

Long story short TD, while I understand what you're saying about a criminal element in the early morning hours, I didn't see anyone in the Waffle House that fit the bill, other than possibly the cook, he was a surely lookin dude. 

And I apologize for not contacting you about going to the Waffle House @gonzoron it was a last minute decision.

Hope the biscuits and gravy hit the spot!

 

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5 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Recovering over the weekend from a long vacation, I fell asleep in the lazy boy Saturday night early, must have been 7:30ish. Woke up about 3:00am, hungry. So I headed to Waffle House about 3:30. Oddly enough a nice policeman pulled out and followed my for about the last mile and a half of my journey all the way to the parking lot. 

Long story short TD, while I understand what you're saying about a criminal element in the early morning hours, I didn't see anyone in the Waffle House that fit the bill, other than possibly the cook, he was a surely lookin dude. 

And I apologize for not contacting you about going to the Waffle House @gonzoron it was a last minute decision.

I have been to a Waffle House much more recently than a strip club. Even though the strip club is closer. It’s been more than 20 years since I was in a strip club. I didn’t go to the nicer ones, too many”E-lights” for my taste. 

I preferred the sleaziest ones. The ones where they used to pat you down at the door for weapons. To make sure you had one.

Much more fun in those!

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