Victory Formation... When is enough ENOUGH with the Defense?

[Yuccaguy]

I had a lower level game earlier this evening.  Turnover on downs (20 yard line in) 50 seconds left...  The defense had one TO left and the offense said "victory formation".  

My wing and I overheard the defensive Coaches say they were going to 'fire out'.  Ok, we then advised the offense to protect themselves as the defense likely is going to 'fire out' then call their last TO.

At this point (following the play and the TO) we again hear the defensive coaches say that they are 'firing out' at the offense.  IMO, this is when enough is enough!  All that I could see and imagine, was hard-feelings/a potential fight/ bad-blood between schools.  

Totally left a bad taste in my mind because of the strategy on behalf of the defensive team/coaches.  

Our remedy to the situation, was to position (U-R) within the expanded neutral zone, and alert the defense that are NOT going to fire-out.  If either of us is moved or touched, guys are getting tossed!  

I realize that this may be beyond our purview, but it is something that has to STOP! 

This is the time and place to TEACH, not become a "Jr. Greg Schiano".  The game is OVER!  Just accept the outcome....  

What would you do?  

[cloudofdust]

53 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Look, the best I can do without a visual is tell you what the rule says. Was the play “clearly intended” to cause the defense to jump? Does it “simulate action at the snap?” If it does either of these things, it’s a foul. Is there any way to give a black letter hard line answer to a hypothetical? No. If this is heading in the direction of trying to remove officiating judgment from the equation, just give up now. The rule is written to not just allow such judgment, but to require it.

Not intending to remove judgement at all. I believe officials have an incredibly difficult job. You know rules better than anyone on the sidelines and I fully understand when and why judgment comes in to play. I was just elaborating on the scenario jets gave with a very specific scenario. It's what I have seen the most of in the past.

 

[jets]

10 minutes ago, cloudofdust said:

Not intending to remove judgement at all. I believe officials have an incredibly difficult job. You know rules better than anyone on the sidelines and I fully understand when and why judgment comes in to play. I was just elaborating on the scenario jets gave with a very specific scenario. It's what I have seen the most of in the past.

 

And so back to my original question on the subject - how is what you described ANY DIFFERENT than what Bob posted with the punt scenario?? 

 

[US31]

12 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Up more than 2 scores.  And, IMO the fumble scenario is/was not an option.  The 1st string came back in to take the snap and kneel down.  

And yes the objective was going after the QB (aka: Football).  

As I said before, players/coaches were LEAVING in this scenario.  There was no need for anything other that the game to be conceded to the other school in this situation.

Then no disagreement from me....

However, if the score was 8 or less....and they weren't threatening the QB once he was on a knee....this should be "play football".

5 hours ago, Bobref said:

One that you still see from time to time is the quick shift from punt formation on 4th and 5 or less, attempting to cause the defense to encroach. 

The thing some coaches don’t know is that one of the definitions of a false start is “an act clearly intended to cause B to encroach.” Once had a coach in a semistate game explain this play to me, and after he got done I told him it was a false start. He told me they had done it 4 times that season, every one successful. I congratulated him, but told him it wouldn’t work tonight. You know, he tried it anyway! We called a false start. They won the game, and the next week in the state finals he went through the same thing with their crew. They also told him it was a foul. And again, he did it anyway, and they called him on it. SMH.

A version of this happened in a very high profile metro Indy game just this season (shifted all the OL out on a hard count).  I don't believe the punt team was the team penalized....

Edited September 26, 2022 by US31

[Bobref]

3 minutes ago, US31 said:

This happened in a very high profile metro Indy game just this season.  I don't believe the punt team was the team penalized....

That’s why these plays won’t die. Occasionally you slip one by.

[Bobref]

29 minutes ago, US31 said:

This happened in a very high profile metro Indy game just this season.  I don't believe the punt team was the team penalized....

That’s why these plays won’t die. Occasionally you slip one by.

[cloudofdust]

1 hour ago, jets said:

And so back to my original question on the subject - how is what you described ANY DIFFERENT than what Bob posted with the punt scenario?? 

 

The only difference I can imagine would be continuity. If it's part of every play then it's part of the game plan. I've seen plenty of flexbone teams that peg and have quick motion. 

If you only pull it out oh 3 or 4th and short then it is deceiving and clearly intended to cause the defense to jump.