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Youth football needs to start embracing rugby more adamantly


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On 1/19/2022 at 10:32 AM, Muda69 said:

https://deadspin.com/youth-football-needs-to-start-embracing-rugby-more-adam-1848378608

Agreed.  And as an aside while at a doctor's appointment a couple of days ago the doctor and I were chatting about the NFL.  Doctor makes the comment "I think the NFL will be gone in next 5-15 years due to all the concussion lawsuits piling up". He then added:  "My spouse and I refuse to let our children play tackle football.  Too dangerous."

 

Please allow me a moment to regress to my white trash roots:  Your doctor and his spouse are pussies.  

Sorry for the long winded intellectual diatribe, carry on.

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I know these sources are too long to read for you, but based upon data, flag football, along with girls soccer, hockey, wrestling and cheerleading should also be banned.....if one follows your line of logic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5305025/#:~:text=There are approximately 2.8 million,and 43 per 1000 exposures.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/15/health/concussion-high-school-sports-study/index.html

Note, this neurologist feels differently than your doctor friend and his wife

https://nortonhealthcare.com/news/sport-with-most-concussions-high-school/

image.thumb.png.5d2be69812ae47217541b3028d0cfb7a.png

I realize that no study data is ever going to change your mind.  You are not open on this issue.  So make a risk based decision that is best for your family and respect that other parents can do the same.

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On 1/22/2022 at 10:45 PM, Muda69 said:

No, I'm looking for information about how coaches view the game of high school tackle football.

So the win is the most important thing.  Got it.

 

 

In the scene you painted originally, it is really hard to see things like specific tackling form in the moment, when it happens in a crowd at the goal line.  However, if I am able to see it, I am going to congratulate the player on making the play and simultaneously remind him how lucky he is to not have been hurt on the play.  It is our job to be able to do both of those things.  Proper tackling technique is paramount in our attempt to make football as safe as possible.  Football is not a
"safe" sport, and it is up to us as coaches to teach techniques that can help to mitigate the risks associated with playing it.  

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1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

Please allow me a moment to regress to my white trash roots:  Your doctor and his spouse are pussies.  

So much for the once-vaunted GID profanity filter.

Anyway, he's a good doctor though. And that is what matters.

Nice to know white trash like yourself enjoys putting your children at risk of concussions that could greatly diminish their quality of like decades after their HS playing days are over.

Would it have been worth the risk?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

I know these sources are too long to read for you, but based upon data, flag football, along with girls soccer, hockey, wrestling and cheerleading should also be banned.....if one follows your line of logic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5305025/#:~:text=There are approximately 2.8 million,and 43 per 1000 exposures.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/15/health/concussion-high-school-sports-study/index.html

Note, this neurologist feels differently than your doctor friend and his wife

https://nortonhealthcare.com/news/sport-with-most-concussions-high-school/

image.thumb.png.5d2be69812ae47217541b3028d0cfb7a.png

I realize that no study data is ever going to change your mind.  You are not open on this issue.  So make a risk based decision that is best for your family and respect that other parents can do the same.

And you are open-minded on this issue, Bash?  Really?

 

7 minutes ago, eschnur66 said:

In the scene you painted originally, it is really hard to see things like specific tackling form in the moment, when it happens in a crowd at the goal line.  However, if I am able to see it, I am going to congratulate the player on making the play and simultaneously remind him how lucky he is to not have been hurt on the play.  It is our job to be able to do both of those things.  Proper tackling technique is paramount in our attempt to make football as safe as possible.  Football is not a
"safe" sport, and it is up to us as coaches to teach techniques that can help to mitigate the risks associated with playing it.  

So nothing punitive.  Got it.

 

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14 minutes ago, Grover said:

So the guy who uses the middle finger emoji more than anybody is bothered by profanity?

I have? And I believe that is a reaction provided by our very own GID administrators, so the use of it must be condoned.

But since it hurts your widdle feeliing so much I'll just stick to the good old fashioned down vote for most of your non-value-added drivel and complaints.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

So nothing punitive.  Got it.

 

We should use punitive methods for correcting poor tackling technique?  You said nothing of malice or intent.  Poor tackling technique is dealt with by reteaching.  I am genuinely interested in what you would like to see done?

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

So much for the once-vaunted GID profanity filter.

Anyway, he's a good doctor though. And that is what matters.

Nice to know white trash like yourself enjoys putting your children at risk of concussions that could greatly diminish their quality of like decades after their HS playing days are over.

Would it have been worth the risk?

 

 

You and I both know there are no real studies that can prove any cognitive decline for high school football athletes later in life.  My three boys only slobber at dinner time, and what were we talking about again...I forget? 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

And you are open-minded on this issue, Bash?  Really?

 

 

 

I actually review real studies Muda...not just accept the opinion of one individual.  But I do understand it easy to accept one opinion only as gospel, if that opinion just happens to align with one's own thoughts.  But other than a single opinion, present some real facts if you want to get people's attention.

I think most of this forum are every bit as qualified as you to assess risk and make the right decisions for our family.  But again, you do you.  Lead your family as you see fit...others I am sure will do the same.  

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2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

So much for the once-vaunted GID profanity filter.

Anyway, he's a good doctor though. And that is what matters.

Nice to know white trash like yourself enjoys putting your children at risk of concussions that could greatly diminish their quality of like decades after their HS playing days are over.

 

 

 

I am sure he is an excellent doctor.  Is he a neurologist?  And if so, does he have experience with large studies focusing on concussion injuries with youth?  If so, please direct me to his work.  I absolutely will read.

I work with some tremendous chemical engineers routinely.  They are masters at their craft...excellent engineers.  But I would not want them designing a suspension bridge over a large body of water.  I think a good civil/structural engineer is a far better choice, don't you?

Just because one is a MD, doesn't make them an expert of every medical issue.  That is why there are specialists for a given area of medicine.  But if you wish to accept his views, more power to you.  It doesn't mean everyone else with a different view is wrong.

 

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12 hours ago, Grover said:

Same for the profanity you whined about.

It is?  Do you have a quote from a GID moderator?  Because I can assure you that used to not be the case. The late, great Tim Adams was completely against profanity on this forum.  If what you say is true then it is too bad the GID Admins have thrown away that portion of his vision.

 

15 hours ago, eschnur66 said:

We should use punitive methods for correcting poor tackling technique?  You said nothing of malice or intent.  Poor tackling technique is dealt with by reteaching.  I am genuinely interested in what you would like to see done?

Yes.  If the player is a starter then sit on the bench for at least the first 3 defensive or offensive series of the next game. Repeat offender sit on the entire bench for the next game.

 

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13 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

I am sure he is an excellent doctor.  Is he a neurologist?  And if so, does he have experience with large studies focusing on concussion injuries with youth?  If so, please direct me to his work.  I absolutely will read.

I work with some tremendous chemical engineers routinely.  They are masters at their craft...excellent engineers.  But I would not want them designing a suspension bridge over a large body of water.  I think a good civil/structural engineer is a far better choice, don't you?

Just because one is a MD, doesn't make them an expert of every medical issue.  That is why there are specialists for a given area of medicine.  But if you wish to accept his views, more power to you.  It doesn't mean everyone else with a different view is wrong.

 

Wow, nice channeling of the great RebelDad of the Roncalli Horde.  He as well thought that if one did not have at least a PhD in a given field along with about 20+ years of experience their views and opinions of that given field were automatically null and void.   He must have been a real buzzkill at parties, probably just like you.

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14 hours ago, Titan32 said:

You and I both know there are no real studies that can prove any cognitive decline for high school football athletes later in life.  My three boys only slobber at dinner time, and what were we talking about again...I forget? 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4371403/

Quote

Conclusions:

There is an association between participation in tackle football prior to age 12 and greater later-life cognitive impairment measured using objective neuropsychological tests. These findings suggest that incurring repeated head impacts during a critical neurodevelopmental period may increase the risk of later-life cognitive impairment. If replicated with larger samples and longitudinal designs, these findings may have implications for safety recommendations for youth sports.

 

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And of course I'm sure this canard will be thrown out here in the near future to refute other studies:  https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.647314/full#h8

One only has to look at the Ethics Statement of this study to raise some major flags:

Quote

Ethics Statement

The studies involving human participants were reviewed and approved by University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill. The patients/participants provided their written informed consent to participate in this study.

Author Contributions

GI conceptualized and designed the study, assisted with conducting the literature review, secured funding for the study, helped conceptualize the statistical analyses, wrote portions of the manuscript, edited drafts, and agrees to be accountable for the content of the work. JC assisted with conducting the literature review, edited drafts, and agrees to be accountable for the content of the work. ZM secured the IRB, programmed the survey, conducted the data collection, designed the database, edited drafts, and agrees to be accountable for the content of the work. FB assisted with conducting the literature review, edited drafts, and agrees to be accountable for the content of the work. DT helped conceptualize the statistical analyses, conducted the statistical analyses, wrote portions of the manuscript, edited drafts, and agrees to be accountable for the content of the work. All authors contributed to the article and approved the submitted version.

Funding

GI acknowledges unrestricted philanthropic support from ImPACT Applications, Inc., the Mooney-Reed Charitable Foundation, the National Rugby League, and the Spaulding Research Institute. These organizations were not involved in the study design, collection, analysis, interpretation of data, the writing of this article or the decision to submit it for publication.

Conflict of Interest

GI serves as a scientific advisor for NanoDX® (formerly BioDirection, Inc.), Sway Operations, LLC, and Highmark, Inc. He has a clinical and consulting practice in forensic neuropsychology, including expert testimony, involving individuals who have sustained mild TBIs (including athletes). He has received research funding from several test publishing companies, including ImPACT Applications, Inc., CNS Vital Signs, and Psychological Assessment Resources (PAR, Inc.). He has received research funding as a principal investigator from the National Football League, and subcontract grant funding as a collaborator from the Harvard Integrated Program to Protect and Improve the Health of National Football League Players Association Members. DT is a consultant for REACT Neuro, Inc.

The remaining authors declare that the research was conducted in the absence of any commercial or financial relationships that could be construed as a potential conflict of interest.

One needs to take statements like:  "These organizations were not involved in the study design, collection, analysis, interpretation of data, the writing of this article or the decision to submit it for publication."  and "The remaining authors declare that the research was conducted in the absence of any commercial or financial relationships that could be construed as a potential conflict of interest."  with a huge grain of salt.     The NFL has to be willing to throw millions of dollars at studies that are designed to refute other studies showing that concussions have adverse effects to players later in life.  If threatens their livelihood.

 

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15 minutes ago, Grover said:

Not sure that's safe.  I don't recall a player attempting to assassinate another player at a football game.

http://billwall.phpwebhosting.com/articles/violence.htm

 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Wow, nice channeling of the great RebelDad of the Roncalli Horde.  He as well thought that if one did not have at least a PhD in a given field along with about 20+ years of experience their views and opinions of that given field were automatically null and void.   He must have been a real buzzkill at parties, probably just like you.

I don't know RebelDad or the Roncalli Horde.  The Roncalli folks I know are all excellent people.  While we may see this issue through different lenses, I understand how you feel and salute the convictions you use to help your family manage risk.

I do have a legitimate question that I am hoping you can help me understand.  If you are so adamant against football until the age of 18 in the name of safety, why are you so vocal and spend so much time on a high school football forum?  I have read your numerous posts pertaining to high school football that have nothing to do with safety and it would seem that you are very interested and motivated by the high school game.  It seems that you spend time on both sides of the fence.

Godspeed and have a wonderful weekend.

Buzz Killington

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2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Yes.  If the player is a starter then sit on the bench for at least the first 3 defensive or offensive series of the next game. Repeat offender sit on the entire bench for the next game.

 

Punishing players for mistakes is a huge part of coaching but not all. Occasionally you would need to try to correct the behavior. So I am not sure 3 series would be the proper punishment.  I would go straight to permanent benching for bad tackling form until the player can do it right. 

Daily ‘Bull in the Ring’ sessions and 1v1 live tackling drills should do it. Once the player proves he’s tough enough, then about 15-20 rounds of Oklahoma drill and he should be ready to go. 

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13 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

Punishing players for mistakes is a huge part of coaching but not all. Occasionally you would need to try to correct the behavior. So I am not sure 3 series would be the proper punishment.  I would go straight to permanent benching for bad tackling form until the player can do it right. 

Daily ‘Bull in the Ring’ sessions and 1v1 live tackling drills should do it. Once the player proves he’s tough enough, then about 15-20 rounds of Oklahoma drill and he should be ready to go. 

I would add matching up the smaller players with the bigger ones for all drills....how else will the smaller players get any better?

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