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Indiana Low Teacher Wages forces Coach to Resign

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It was one reason why my wife and I chose to leave the state.    Love Indiana and Indiana Football, but the teaching load and lack of salary accompanying it weren't something that I wanted to support my family on.    In Michigan, I teach fewer students each day, for $12,000 more a year at a public school, and thats with a pay scale that continues to increase.  The biggest issue for many Indiana schools is that teacher pay is tied to enrollment.  If your a young teacher that gets hired for $35k your school's enrollment is stagnant or shrinking you may never receive a raise.   As a teacher, I've dedicated my life to kids, but I didn't take a vow of poverty nor do I consider myself a missionary.  We are professionals and should be paid accordingly.  Not crazy amounts, but in accordance to the degrees we have and the amount of work that we do. 

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I totally agree with the Wedgebuster.  It seems like districts are proud of the fact that they only pay a given number of years of experience these days.  Once had an excellent school district with an excellent football program tell me the following.  "We would love to hire you and bring you into our school and football program..... However, we can only pay up to 5 years experience."  In my mind I had the conversation with my wife. "Honey I have a chance to move our family to an excellent district and have a chance at a ring each year.... It will only cost us 20 thousand dollars a year while we are there."   Yes I got knocked up side the head in my mind as well.   Schools today  miss out on a lot of highly qualified and experienced educators due to the fact that they do not pay what people have rightfully earned.   It will come back to bite the Hoosier State in the rear end sooner than later.  

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6 hours ago, Coach Dowell said:

I totally agree with the Wedgebuster.  It seems like districts are proud of the fact that they only pay a given number of years of experience these days.  Once had an excellent school district with an excellent football program tell me the following.  "We would love to hire you and bring you into our school and football program..... However, we can only pay up to 5 years experience."  In my mind I had the conversation with my wife. "Honey I have a chance to move our family to an excellent district and have a chance at a ring each year.... It will only cost us 20 thousand dollars a year while we are there."   Yes I got knocked up side the head in my mind as well.   Schools today  miss out on a lot of highly qualified and experienced educators due to the fact that they do not pay what people have rightfully earned.   It will come back to bite the Hoosier State in the rear end sooner than later.  

All the districts in Nevada pay for all years experience, and a good portion of the charters do also. My starting salary at The School That Tennis Built was $45k, and that was low for a non-PERS school.

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7 hours ago, Coach Dowell said:

I totally agree with the Wedgebuster.  It seems like districts are proud of the fact that they only pay a given number of years of experience these days.  Once had an excellent school district with an excellent football program tell me the following.  "We would love to hire you and bring you into our school and football program..... However, we can only pay up to 5 years experience."  In my mind I had the conversation with my wife. "Honey I have a chance to move our family to an excellent district and have a chance at a ring each year.... It will only cost us 20 thousand dollars a year while we are there."   Yes I got knocked up side the head in my mind as well.   Schools today  miss out on a lot of highly qualified and experienced educators due to the fact that they do not pay what people have rightfully earned.   It will come back to bite the Hoosier State in the rear end sooner than later.  

Completely agree with you==true,  schools only wanting to pay 5 years experience. I have seen this on multiple sights and complaints from teachers and coaches. 

That is on the schools, not politics. It is an added insult from school corporations to even tell teachers and coaches that's the deal. So it is a double whammy. Where do school corporations even think that this is ok to degrade experienced teachers/coaches by only offering 5 years. Shame on them!! The other problem is that HC's are posting jobs and wanting experienced coaches and the school corporation won't even interview the candidates or work with the HC's unless the candidates have under five years experience or be willing to take a 20,000 pay cut. Again, shame on school corperations

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Well, Indiana has been talking about how this is a problem for years. When are they going to do something about it?? I know teachers that have been in for 5-10 years and are still making less than 40K per year. Indiana's leaders should be embarrassed about this, lets see some pro-active measures to address this before it gets worse. They are losing teachers and funneling money from public schools to the private schools thanks to Pence and his crooked buddy Tony Bennett.

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4 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Well, Indiana has been talking about how this is a problem for years. When are they going to do something about it?? I know teachers that have been in for 5-10 years and are still making less than 40K per year. Indiana's leaders should be embarrassed about this, lets see some pro-active measures to address this before it gets worse. They are losing teachers and funneling money from public schools to the private schools thanks to Pence and his crooked buddy Tony Bennett.

I also need to add Daniels as a person that has hurt the Indiana public school system as well

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1 minute ago, psaboy said:

Well, Indiana has been talking about how this is a problem for years. When are they going to do something about it?? I know teachers that have been in for 5-10 years and are still making less than 40K per year. Indiana's leaders should be embarrassed about this, lets see some pro-active measures to address this before it gets worse. They are losing teachers and funneling money from public schools to the private schools thanks to Pence and his crooked buddy Tony Bennett.

I’m not totally sure about the public/private school part...but yes. When are they going to address this issue.

Ultimately, it’s our friends children, nephews, nieces, grandchildren, brothers, sisters, and children that are hurt most by this. They deserve the best they can get and by underpaying educators, classrooms become more packed and the number of quality educators and role models thins. 

 

In many ways, the issue is exponential and will only get worse until there is a breaking point.

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1 minute ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I’m not totally sure about the public/private school part...but yes. When are they going to address this issue.

Ultimately, it’s our friends children, nephews, nieces, grandchildren, brothers, sisters, and children that are hurt most by this. They deserve the best they can get and by underpaying educators, classrooms become more packed and the number of quality educators and role models thins. 

 

In many ways, the issue is exponential and will only get worse until there is a breaking point.

I have a family member that is an teacher at an Indiana public school and the things see tells me blows my mind sometimes about the ineptness and poor management of resources. The substitute teacher situation is a "laughing stock" as well. Tax payer money should not be funneled to private schools, the taxes need to go to public schools. 

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Indiana is now requiring teachers to do additional work to renew license after July 1st. This is another great example of poor leadership at the education level of our great state. But I guess on the bright side, we can soon gamble on pro and college sporting events in Indiana and a few more casinos have been approved. Way to go INDIANA !!!

A new law centered on Career and Technical Education (CTE) signed by Gov. Holcomb will make major changes to teacher Professional Growth Plans (PGP) beginning July 1.

The changes come from HEA 1002. ISTA opposes this additional requirement of traditional public-school teachers. 

For teachers who have not yet started their license renewal, we urge them to start the process in the Licensing Verification and Information System (LVIS) before July 1, to avoid this new PGP requirement for their next renewal.

The Indiana Department of Education (IDOE) has issued guidance on the upcoming changes. As outlined:

License holders starting a PGP for renewal in their Licensing Verification and Information System (LVIS) accounts after July 1, 2019 are required to complete 15 of the 90 PGP points required for renewal in one or more of these areas:

  • An externship with a company;
  • Professional development provided by the state, a local business, or a community partner that provides opportunities for school and employers to partner in promoting career navigation;
  • Professional development provided by the state, a local business, or a community partner that outlines:
    • current and future economic needs of the community, state, nation, and globe; and
    • ways in which current and future economic needs described in (A) can be disseminated to students.
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9 hours ago, psaboy said:

 

Indiana is now requiring teachers to do additional work to renew license after July 1st. This is another great example of poor leadership at the education level of our great state. But I guess on the bright side, we can soon gamble on pro and college sporting events in Indiana and a few more casinos have been approved. Way to go INDIANA !!!

A new law centered on Career and Technical Education (CTE) signed by Gov. Holcomb will make major changes to teacher Professional Growth Plans (PGP) beginning July 1.

The changes come from HEA 1002. ISTA opposes this additional requirement of traditional public-school teachers. 

For teachers who have not yet started their license renewal, we urge them to start the process in the Licensing Verification and Information System (LVIS) before July 1, to avoid this new PGP requirement for their next renewal.

The Indiana Department of Education (IDOE) has issued guidance on the upcoming changes. As outlined:

License holders starting a PGP for renewal in their Licensing Verification and Information System (LVIS) accounts after July 1, 2019 are required to complete 15 of the 90 PGP points required for renewal in one or more of these areas:

  • An externship with a company;
  • Professional development provided by the state, a local business, or a community partner that provides opportunities for school and employers to partner in promoting career navigation;
  • Professional development provided by the state, a local business, or a community partner that outlines:
    • current and future economic needs of the community, state, nation, and globe; and
    • ways in which current and future economic needs described in (A) can be disseminated to students.

 

Image result for jump through hoops gif

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What is the ultimate goal of those in charge?  If it is the privatization of education, they are well on their way to achieving that.  Daniels, Pence, Holcomb, Dr. Bennett are not the only issues in the political arena.  The local political figures who are elected have done nothing but strip funding from the traditional public schools and open the flood gates to charter schools.  It is an embarrassment from that state lawmakers believe these new schools are such a better idea.  They have much less oversight and are continuing receive more funding.  Because we keep electing the same politicians to office, are we the people who deserve the blame?

Side note:  I use to work in a private school and many of the kids who were eligible to receive funding were great students and the funding was the only way they could go to that school.  To my knowledge, all of them have graduated or on the path to graduation.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Coach_K said:

What is the ultimate goal of those in charge?  If it is the privatization of education, they are well on their way to achieving that.  Daniels, Pence, Holcomb, Dr. Bennett are not the only issues in the political arena.  The local political figures who are elected have done nothing but strip funding from the traditional public schools and open the flood gates to charter schools.  It is an embarrassment from that state lawmakers believe these new schools are such a better idea.  They have much less oversight and are continuing receive more funding.  Because we keep electing the same politicians to office, are we the people who deserve the blame?

Side note:  I use to work in a private school and many of the kids who were eligible to receive funding were great students and the funding was the only way they could go to that school.  To my knowledge, all of them have graduated or on the path to graduation.

It's nice to see some objectivity.  I'm seriously considering going to the Catholic schools and working in a restaurant on the off hours.  I went to one and just visited one last year...still similar to 30 years ago as far as work ethic/discipline.  On another note,   I'm a friend of Dr. Bennett on Facebook.  We've gone our rounds.  He's either brainwashed or $ blind.  

Edited by Robert
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37 minutes ago, Robert said:

It's nice to see some objectivity.  I'm seriously considering going to the Catholic schools and working in a restaurant on the off hours.  I went to one and just visited one last year...still similar to 30 years ago as far as work ethic/discipline.  On another note,   I'm a friend of Dr. Bennett on Facebook.  We've gone our rounds.  He's either brainwashed or $ blind.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Catholic schools are pretty much funded by that certain church, not with tax payer money like these charter schools?

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5 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Catholic schools are pretty much funded by that certain church, not with tax payer money like these charter schools?

Many, especially inner city ones, are now HEAVILY reliant on voucher money.

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5 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Catholic schools are pretty much funded by that certain church, not with tax payer money like these charter schools?

School Choice Vouchers

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1 minute ago, Irishman said:

Most, especially inner city ones, are now HEAVILY reliant on voucher money.

That stinks

 

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18 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Catholic schools are pretty much funded by that certain church, not with tax payer money like these charter schools?

Here is some info you might find interesting:

https://www.doe.in.gov/choice/school-scholarships

IC 20-51-1-4.7"Eligible school"
 

     Sec. 4.7. "Eligible school" refers to a public or nonpublic elementary school or high school that:

(1) is located in Indiana;

(2) requires an eligible choice scholarship student to pay tuition or transfer tuition to attend;

(3) voluntarily agrees to enroll an eligible choice scholarship student;

(4) is accredited by either the state board or a national or regional accreditation agency that is recognized by the state board;

(5) administers the statewide assessment program;

(6) is not a charter school or the school corporation in which an eligible choice scholarship student has legal settlement under IC 20-26-11; and

(7) submits to the department only the student performance data required for a category designation under IC 20-31-8-3.

As added by P.L.92-2011, SEC.6. Amended by P.L.211-2013, SEC.6; P.L.242-2017, SEC.49.

 

IC 20-51-1-5"Eligible student"
 

     Sec. 5. "Eligible student" refers to an individual who:

(1) has legal settlement in Indiana;

(2) is at least five (5) years of age and less than twenty-two (22) years of age on the date in the school year specified in IC 20-33-2-7;

(3) either has been or is currently enrolled in a participating school; and

(4) is a member of a household with an annual income of not more than two hundred percent (200%) of the amount required for the individual to qualify for the federal free or reduced price lunch program.

As added by P.L.182-2009(ss), SEC.364. Amended by P.L.129-2012, SEC.1; P.L.211-2013, SEC.7.

 

IC 20-51-1-6"Participating school"
 

     Sec. 6. (a) "Participating school" refers to a public or nonpublic school that:

(1) an eligible student is required to pay tuition or transfer tuition to attend;

(2) voluntarily agrees to enroll an eligible student;

(3) is accredited by either the state board or a national or regional accreditation agency that is recognized by the state board; and

(4) administers the tests under the statewide assessment program or administers another nationally recognized and norm-referenced assessment of the school's students.

     (b) The term does not include a public school in a school corporation where the eligible student has legal settlement under IC 20-26-11.

As added by P.L.182-2009(ss), SEC.364. Amended by P.L.242-2017, SEC.50.

 

IC 20-51-1-7"Scholarship granting organization"
 

     Sec. 7. "Scholarship granting organization" refers to an organization that:

(1) is exempt from federal income taxation under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code; and

(2) is organized at least in part to grant school scholarships without limiting the availability of scholarships to students of only one (1) participating school.

As added by P.L.182-2009(ss), SEC.364. Amended by P.L.92-2011, SEC.7.

 

IC 20-51-1-8"School scholarship"
 

     Sec. 8. "School scholarship" refers to a grant to pay only the cost of education for an eligible student as determined for the school year (as defined in IC 20-18-2-17) for which the scholarship will be granted.

As added by P.L.182-2009(ss), SEC.364.

 

IC 20-51-2Chapter 2. Exchange of Information; Rules
 
           20-51-2-1List of certified scholarship programs
 

 

IC 20-51-2-1List of certified scholarship programs
 

     Sec. 1. The department shall maintain a publicly available list of the school scholarship programs certified by the department. The list must contain names, addresses, and any other information that the department determines is necessary for the public to determine which scholarship granting organizations conduct school scholarship programs. A current list must be posted on an Internet web site used by the department to provide information to the public.

As added by P.L.182-2009(ss), SEC.364.

 

Here is a list of schools who currently accept SGOs

https://www.doe.in.gov/sites/default/files/choice/sgo-participating-schools-december-6-2018.pdf

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^^^

Wow, pretty extensive list of schools there

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Could that jumping through the ring of fire in the previous post count?  I mean that is a great corporation/business development team building activity.  Way back in the dark ages there were life licenses.  Then the state thought of a brilliant idea, lets make everyone go to school and chase a Masters Degree.  Then its the PGP points.  What a joke.  Now I have to learn how  a business is run?  I give you  all a hint , some of us know how business is ran.  Most on the up and up, some shady, and other corrupt.   Just another bright idea from great minds!  

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11 hours ago, psaboy said:

 

Indiana is now requiring teachers to do additional work to renew license after July 1st. This is another great example of poor leadership at the education level of our great state. But I guess on the bright side, we can soon gamble on pro and college sporting events in Indiana and a few more casinos have been approved. Way to go INDIANA !!!

A new law centered on Career and Technical Education (CTE) signed by Gov. Holcomb will make major changes to teacher Professional Growth Plans (PGP) beginning July 1.

The changes come from HEA 1002. ISTA opposes this additional requirement of traditional public-school teachers. 

For teachers who have not yet started their license renewal, we urge them to start the process in the Licensing Verification and Information System (LVIS) before July 1, to avoid this new PGP requirement for their next renewal.

The Indiana Department of Education (IDOE) has issued guidance on the upcoming changes. As outlined:

License holders starting a PGP for renewal in their Licensing Verification and Information System (LVIS) accounts after July 1, 2019 are required to complete 15 of the 90 PGP points required for renewal in one or more of these areas:

  • An externship with a company;
  • Professional development provided by the state, a local business, or a community partner that provides opportunities for school and employers to partner in promoting career navigation;
  • Professional development provided by the state, a local business, or a community partner that outlines:
    • current and future economic needs of the community, state, nation, and globe; and
    • ways in which current and future economic needs described in (A) can be disseminated to students.

Ok so I'm trying to think to myself why would the state require this of teachers? I guess to get more involved in the community, maybe? My question is if the state want to require PGP points come from specific areas of concentration then how come the state does not provide any PGP points for coaching? Or why wouldn't the state require teachers gain X amount of PGP points from coaching a sport, sponsoring a club, or doing x, y, z for students? I've heard multiple head coaches say the issue is schools are hiring teachers who show up at 8 AM and leave at 3 PM. I know a lot of this comes down to years of experience issues talked about above but it would be a way to get teachers who are already in the building involved in something.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, CoachJackson said:

Ok so I'm trying to think to myself why would the state require this of teachers? I guess to get more involved in the community, maybe? My question is if the state want to require PGP points come from specific areas of concentration then how come the state does not provide any PGP points for coaching? Or why wouldn't the state require teachers gain X amount of PGP points from coaching a sport, sponsoring a club, or doing x, y, z for students? I've heard multiple head coaches say the issue is schools are hiring teachers who show up at 8 AM and leave at 3 PM. I know a lot of this comes down to years of experience issues talked about above but it would be a way to get teachers who are already in the building involved in something.

Good points. Most teaches i know and have talked too say it is not a 8-3 job. They spend numerous hours, after hours preparing for lessons, grading papers, etc. If the teacher that is only doing the 8-3 hours they can't not be effective in most cases.

Edited by psaboy

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5 minutes ago, CoachJackson said:

Ok so I'm trying to think to myself why would the state require this of teachers? I guess to get more involved in the community, maybe? My question is if the state want to require PGP points come from specific areas of concentration then how come the state does not provide any PGP points for coaching? Or why wouldn't the state require teachers gain X amount of PGP points from coaching a sport, sponsoring a club, or doing x, y, z for students? I've heard multiple head coaches say the issue is schools are hiring teachers who show up at 8 AM and leave at 3 PM. I know a lot of this comes down to years of experience issues talked about above but it would be a way to get teachers who are already in the building involved in something.

GREAT questions.....what IS hilarious about this; both chambers had a chance to increase pay by 5% this session. Both refused. The common reason......They did not want to get too involved in local decisions.

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I teach economics. I work multiple side jobs, including one very visible one as the broadcaster for one of the five professional sports teams in Indianapolis. I basically work as an extra staff member in our athletic department running our website and broadcasts. I worked for a newspaper for nine years. I think I know the importance of businesses to our community, given we discuss it ALMOST EVERY DAY in class. These requirements are beyond insulting and essentially show the legislature is listening to the Chamber of Commerce instead of the Department of Education. The CoC is much more influential in dictating education policy than the DoE. I don't blame Jennifer McCormick for stepping away, but I wish she would remain. She's been the biggest advocate for teachers, but she's beyond frustrated with the actions of the legislature, which is controlled BY HER OWN PARTY. It's disgusting and insulting. 

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15 minutes ago, Irishman said:

GREAT questions.....what IS hilarious about this; both chambers had a chance to increase pay by 5% this session. Both refused. The common reason......They did not want to get too involved in local decisions.

That's plain stupid

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