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Temp’s Top 25 (10/1)


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  1. Brownsburg 
  2. Center Grove
  3. Hamilton Southeastern 
  4. Cathedral
  5. New Palestine
  6. Roncalli
  7. Carmel
  8. Ben Davis
  9. Fishers
  10. Crown Point
  11. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
  12. Fort Wayne Snider
  13. Westfield 
  14. Lawrence Central
  15. Penn
  16. Elkhart
  17. Merrillville
  18. East Central
  19. Fort Wayne North
  20. Whiteland
  21. Gibson Southern
  22. Bishop Chatard
  23. Lawrence North
  24. West Lafayette 
  25. NorthWood
Edited by temptation
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So since in a power ranking I don't do head to head strength of schedules (doesn't make sense to do so) but rather head to head match ups and related games here is what I see so far. If you want to argue class schedules against each other then I guess there is nothing to discuss.

HSE 26 Westfield 21 - New Pal 42 Westfield 28 - New Pall should be ranked above HSE

Louisville Trinity beats CG 29-28 2OT and Carmel 17-7

Louisville Male 23 Louisville Trinity 21

Roncalli 28 Louisville Male 7 - Roncalli should rank above CG, and yes at this point probably New Pal as well, especially if they beat Cincinnati Elder next week who beat St Xaxier (KY) who also beat Trinity. 
 

I know it is "7 degrees of separation" argument but Roncalli handle a good Male team (though it was close into the 4th quarter) that beat a good Trinity team that beat both CG and Carmel. Question is could Roncalli beat CG and Carmel. I think so. There is an argument there to put them ahead of CG, especially since Roncalli is undefeated.

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10 minutes ago, temptation said:

Zero quality in state wins and double digit losses to the only quality teams on their schedule.  The King win was fool’s gold.

I just can’t.

Not counting King, who isn't as good as people say they are, WC hasn't beat a team that has actually beat a team. NC and Pike have not won any games. Up until last night LN was in the same boat. LN beat Warren who is LN's first win against a team that actually has a win. So WC doesn't deserve to be in the top 25 anymore. It pains me to say that. I don't know what is going on over there. Those kids are much better than their record and performance. I have my theory though. But I will keep that to myself.

 

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40 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

So since in a power ranking I don't do head to head strength of schedules (doesn't make sense to do so) but rather head to head match ups and related games here is what I see so far. If you want to argue class schedules against each other then I guess there is nothing to discuss.

HSE 26 Westfield 21 - New Pal 42 Westfield 28 - New Pall should be ranked above HSE

Louisville Trinity beats CG 29-28 2OT and Carmel 17-7

Louisville Male 23 Louisville Trinity 21

Roncalli 28 Louisville Male 7 - Roncalli should rank above CG, and yes at this point probably New Pal as well, especially if they beat Cincinnati Elder next week who beat St Xaxier (KY) who also beat Trinity. 
 

I know it is "7 degrees of separation" argument but Roncalli handle a good Male team (though it was close into the 4th quarter) that beat a good Trinity team that beat both CG and Carmel. Question is could Roncalli beat CG and Carmel. I think so. There is an argument there to put them ahead of CG, especially since Roncalli is undefeated.

well if team X beat team Y on a given night, but a couple of weeks later team Z beats team X.....but then team Y beats team Z this week, but team P has an easier strength of schedule, and team P beat an opponent of Team Y, therefore...........

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4 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

well if team X beat team Y on a given night, but a couple of weeks later team Z beats team X.....but then team Y beats team Z this week, but team P has an easier strength of schedule, and team P beat an opponent of Team Y, therefore...........

Exactly what I am saying. Pretty simple! LOL

I will say that in the end Roncalli and New Pal may be the best two teams in the state, but we will never know. 

 

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4 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

Exactly what I am saying. Pretty simple! LOL

I will say that in the end Roncalli and New Pal may be the best two teams in the state, but we will never know. 

 

It is very hard to call a team the top team in the state from just being eye candy.  They have to play a similar schedule all year long...while a single game looks good, it is not the same of playing that degree of difficulty all year long.  Its all hypothetical.

Roncalli and New Pal are outstanding...but they are not playing the best of HCC and MIC all year long....and then in the playoffs, both the best of HCC and MIC, along with the best of the north.  Its surviving the grind that makes a team the very best.  I don't put a ton into a single game or if a team beats an opponent by a larger spread or that another team didn't on a given night.  Carmel lost to Trinity on opening night....impossible to judge a football team for the season based on an opening game.  CG lost to Trinity in double OT in Louisville, coming off playing WC and Carmel, losing one of the top backs in the state.  It is not an apple to apple comparison.  

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35 minutes ago, Rodney said:

anyone thinking Northwood can play with WC for 2 whole quarters is out of their minds, what am I reading.

There are a few other teams that I questioned whether or not they could beat the Warriors, but Northwood wasn't one of them. I see your point though. 

To Warren Central's credit, they didn't exactly get blown out by Center Grove and Ben Davis. 

Thanks for the poll Temp, good stuff. 

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3 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

It is very hard to call a team the top team in the state from just being eye candy.  They have to play a similar schedule all year long...while a single game looks good, it is not the same of playing that degree of difficulty all year long.  Its all hypothetical.

Roncalli and New Pal are outstanding...but they are not playing the best of HCC and MIC all year long....and then in the playoffs, both the best of HCC and MIC, along with the best of the north.  Its surviving the grind that makes a team the very best.  I don't put a ton into a single game or if a team beats an opponent by a larger spread or that another team didn't on a given night.  Carmel lost to Trinity on opening night....impossible to judge a football team for the season based on an opening game.  CG lost to Trinity in double OT in Louisville, coming off playing WC and Carmel, losing one of the top backs in the state.  It is not an apple to apple comparison.  

So according to this logic why do people even try to put together a multi-class power ranking? According to this logic the HCC and the MIC and Center Grove and Carmel should be the only teams in spots 1-16 and still yet your logic says that after those conferences and two teams the other 6A teams, because of their schedule, will fill up the remaining spots. 

Head to head and common match ups between teams and the teams they play is the only other fair way to include teams in lower classes. In some ways I joke about these power rankings, but honestly the "They have to play a similar schedule all year long..." metric in a power ranking like this is moot. You can't compare because even a school like CG lost a majority of their games and someone said that an undefeated Merrillville should be ranked above them, someone would use the argument, "Well Merrillville doesn't play the tough schedule that CG plays. That logic and metric defeats the rankings. The question has to be can Team A defeat Team B on any given day. Not Team A doesn't play the year long tough schedule Team B does so regardless they can't be ranked above them even though it is agreed Team A could or would beat Team B. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MonkeyButt said:

So according to this logic why do people even try to put together a multi-class power ranking? According to this logic the HCC and the MIC and Center Grove and Carmel should be the only teams in spots 1-16 and still yet your logic says that after those conferences and two teams the other 6A teams, because of their schedule, will fill up the remaining spots. 

Head to head and common match ups between teams and the teams they play is the only other fair way to include teams in lower classes. In some ways I joke about these power rankings, but honestly the "They have to play a similar schedule all year long..." metric in a power ranking like this is moot. You can't compare because even a school like CG lost a majority of their games and someone said that an undefeated Merrillville should be ranked above them, someone would use the argument, "Well Merrillville doesn't play the tough schedule that CG plays. That logic and metric defeats the rankings. The question has to be can Team A defeat Team B on any given day. Not Team A doesn't play the year long tough schedule Team B does so regardless they can't be ranked above them even though it is agreed Team A could or would beat Team B. 

Nah, teams improve during the ebbs and flows of the season.

Head to head is my #1 factor when creating these.

Common opponents and how each team fares can give folks an idea but there are other variables that must be taken into account such as when the game is played, the venue, weather, etc.

The reason I moved Roncalli in front of Carmel/BD was precisely what you mentioned when it came to the Male/Trinity dynamic.

As far as why I hold CG to a higher standard is the fact that they have not lost to an Indiana team in 2+ years.  I need to see it to believe it (perhaps unfair).  I said the same thing about Westfield and now think I firmly have them where they belong based on 2022 results.  I was a bit bullish on them due to their domination of the HCC.

Wins also gain/lose significance as opponents’ seasons play out.  Suddenly LC/BD’s wins over Warren don’t carry as much weight to me.

I did move Brownsburg ahead of CG after last nights destruction of a Zionsville team for which I have a lot of respect.

I now think those top NINE teams may be interchangeable as Roncalli/Fishers are playing their way into that conversation.

Thanks for reading.
 

Edited by temptation
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32 minutes ago, temptation said:

Nah, teams improve during the ebbs and flows of the season.

Head to head is my #1 factor when creating these.

Common opponents and how each team fares can give folks an idea but there are other variables that must be taken into account such as when the game is played, the venue, weather, etc.

The reason I moved Roncalli in front of Carmel/BD was precisely what you mentioned when it came to the Male/Trinity dynamic.

As far as why I hold CG to a higher standard is the fact that they have not lost to an Indiana team in 2+ years.  I need to see it to believe it (perhaps unfair).  I said the same thing about Westfield and now think I firmly have them where they belong based on 2022 results.  I was a bit bullish on them due to their domination of the HCC.

Wins also gain/lose significance as opponents’ seasons play out.  Suddenly LC/BD’s wins over Warren don’t carry as much weight to me.

I did move Brownsburg ahead of CG after last nights destruction of a Zionsville team for which I have a lot of respect.

I now think those top NINE teams may be interchangeable as Roncalli/Fishers are playing their way into that conversation.

Thanks for reading.
 

All that seems fair. I think that if Roncalli beats Elder and wins out should be moved up though. Other than that the playoffs will really weed out the rankings of the ones who deserve top ten and those who don't.

 

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16 hours ago, MonkeyButt said:

So according to this logic why do people even try to put together a multi-class power ranking? According to this logic the HCC and the MIC and Center Grove and Carmel should be the only teams in spots 1-16 and still yet your logic says that after those conferences and two teams the other 6A teams, because of their schedule, will fill up the remaining spots. 

Head to head and common match ups between teams and the teams they play is the only other fair way to include teams in lower classes. In some ways I joke about these power rankings, but honestly the "They have to play a similar schedule all year long..." metric in a power ranking like this is moot. You can't compare because even a school like CG lost a majority of their games and someone said that an undefeated Merrillville should be ranked above them, someone would use the argument, "Well Merrillville doesn't play the tough schedule that CG plays. That logic and metric defeats the rankings. The question has to be can Team A defeat Team B on any given day. Not Team A doesn't play the year long tough schedule Team B does so regardless they can't be ranked above them even though it is agreed Team A could or would beat Team B. 

No…my logic is that while perhaps fun, this is just hypothetical. Handle business first. Win the games you need to be crowned champion in your weight group. Then the “logic” of who beat who on a given night while playing schedules of vastly different difficulties becomes a discussion of a tad more merit. 
 

I get it that you are invested in one of those teams. 

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21 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

No…my logic is that while perhaps fun, this is just hypothetical. Handle business first. Win the games you need to be crowned champion in your weight group. Then the “logic” of who beat who on a given night while playing schedules of vastly different difficulties becomes a discussion of a tad more merit. 
 

I get it that you are invested in one of those teams. 

It is hypothetical. Rankings are always the fun of the season to debate. But you are right, nothing matters until the dust is settled and someone is crowned king of the hill at LOS. I love that two 4A schools are in the discussion though. 6A and 4A are going to be fun to watch come playoff time. 

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35 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

It is hypothetical. Rankings are always the fun of the season to debate. But you are right, nothing matters until the dust is settled and someone is crowned king of the hill at LOS. I love that two 4A schools are in the discussion though. 6A and 4A are going to be fun to watch come playoff time. 

You just can’t make your mind up can you?

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6 minutes ago, temptation said:

You just can’t make your mind up can you?

LOL Come on Temptation why make rankings if not to have people argue with you about them? I still hold to everything I have said about your rankings, but I am well aware that is all they are. All that matters is being the last one standing at LOS with a trophy over head. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MonkeyButt said:

LOL Come on Temptation why make rankings if not to have people argue with you about them? I still hold to everything I have said about your rankings, but I am well aware that is all they are. All that matters is being the last one standing at LOS with a trophy over head. 

I can take the heat.  Trust me.

One moment you are outraged and nit pick every aspect of the rankings and then in the next breath, you state that they are irrelevant, lol.

Edited by temptation
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All of the arguments on this topic are good. Fortunately for Roncalli, New Pal, and any other school that feels there strength of schedule is holding them down have a GOLDEN opportunity to add CG, Carmel, Cathedral, and probably a couple other MIC schools to there schedule starting next season. But I’m willing to bet none of them will.

Hard for me to understand why you would schedule a 6A team from out of state when there’s plenty of schools locally looking for games.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, HomeCookin said:

All of the arguments on this topic are good. Fortunately for Roncalli, New Pal, and any other school that feels there strength of schedule is holding them down have a GOLDEN opportunity to add CG, Carmel, Cathedral, and probably a couple other MIC schools to there schedule starting next season. But I’m willing to bet none of them will.

Hard for me to understand why you would schedule a 6A team from out of state when there’s plenty of schools locally looking for games.

Only if said schools “culturally align” with Carmel and CG though…lol.

This decision looks worse for the MIC 6 with each passing minute…other than the fact that they can tout mythical conference titles in all 20 sports.

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29 minutes ago, temptation said:

Only if said schools “culturally align” with Carmel and CG though…lol.

This decision looks worse for the MIC 6 with each passing minute…other than the fact that they can tout mythical conference titles in all 20 sports.

$$$Cultural Allignment$$$ or nobody showing up to watch the games is debatable.

What is unfortunate is the top programs in the state can’t get a full schedule of games without playing out of state teams. Especially when there are programs locally  that can argue they have a better team.

If you want to be the best you need to beat the best!

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19 minutes ago, HomeCookin said:

What is unfortunate is the top programs in the state can’t get a full schedule of games without playing out of state teams. Especially when there are programs locally  that can argue they have a better team.

I bet the Grovers are going to find out soon why you have to play out of state teams to fill a schedule. Especially if the MIC teams stop playing them. 

Look at what Cathedral had to do this year. They are all over the state AND had to play a team from Cinci. I think they even had a bye this year because they couldn't find a game for week 5. 

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21 minutes ago, HomeCookin said:

$$$Cultural Allignment$$$ or nobody showing up to watch the games is debatable.

What is unfortunate is the top programs in the state can’t get a full schedule of games without playing out of state teams. Especially when there are programs locally  that can argue they have a better team.

If you want to be the best you need to beat the best!

I agree but after the news broke everyone was “concerned” that CG/Carmel would have trouble finding opponents…then everyone kept playing them but it “doesn’t count” in the conference standings…

Its a joke…

Might as well be what soccer enthusiasts refer to as “a friendly.”

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