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Footballking16

6A shaping form

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Having IPS schools in a Sectional would make said Sectional considerably easier to win, correct?

Today yes, not 5, 10, 15 years ago though. From the 2000-2001 season through the 2009-2010 season Northwest went 7-5 against Ben Davis and twice knocked them out of sectionals.

In that same time frame, Arlington knocked Warren out of sectionals 3 times.

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I don't necessarily understand the argument with IPS. IPS programs didn't necessarily start falling off until around 2008. Northwest, Tech, and Arlington all had programs that were among the top in 4A. Arlington had some monster teams under Larry Nicks, especially their 05 team. Today, yes, you'd be right, only Tech has seen success in basketball over the last few years.

Historically, IPS Basketball has seen a lot of success, including some excellent regional games with Washington and BD.

In football, Arlington made a great 99 run to the regional before falling 16-15 behind a 56-yard field goal by BD's Damon Fine. Arlington may have won 5A that year if not for that field goal.

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Football has taken a huge chunk out of basketball in this state.  Given the popularity of the Colts, and the improvement of Indiana football in the Indianapolis metro area.  Football was always strong in the northern half and its gotten much stronger in the central and southern regions.  On the b-ball side, class basketball in my opinion has weakened local rivalries and traditions, and the Indiana-Kentucky all star game is almost defunct at this point.  I don't disagree that basketball is still king, but it doesn't carry the lead like it used to, and football is getting bigger.  Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Texas and California are the kings, but Indiana is much higher on the map that it was 20 years ago.

Indiana has also become a fringe Top 10 wrestling state as well over the past 15 years.  

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And it was just a coincidence that IN BOTH CASES the number of IPS schools in Ben Davis' Sectionals decreased, right? 

 

IPS School or not, they would have run into Pike too.  Pike's dominated the class era and BD's spent most of the time within its Sectional.  I'm not here to debate the quality of IPS basketball.  Northwest has been very competitive with BD over the years as has Tech.

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I don't necessarily understand the argument with IPS. IPS programs didn't necessarily start falling off until around 2008. Northwest, Tech, and Arlington all had programs that were among the top in 4A. Arlington had some monster teams under Larry Nicks, especially their 05 team. Today, yes, you'd be right, only Tech has seen success in basketball over the last few years.

Historically, IPS Basketball has seen a lot of success, including some excellent regional games with Washington and BD.

In football, Arlington made a great 99 run to the regional before falling 16-15 behind a 56-yard field goal by BD's Damon Fine. Arlington may have won 5A that year if not for that field goal.

Arlington played Ben Davis tougher than any opponent during the 99' season. Ben Davis posted a perfect 15-0 record and won the 5A state championship. Ben Davis beat their tournament opponents by an average of 30.5 points while destroying Bloomington South 38-0 in the semi state and hammering Penn 27-3 in the state finals. Arlington would have definitely won the 5A state championship in 99' if not for a 56 yard BD field goal in the final minutes of the regional.

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Arlington played Ben Davis tougher than any opponent during the 99' season. Ben Davis posted a perfect 15-0 record and won the 5A state championship. Ben Davis beat their tournament opponents by an average of 30.5 points while destroying Bloomington South 38-0 in the semi state and hammering Penn 27-3 in the state finals. Arlington would have definitely won the 5A state championship in 99' if not for a 56 yard BD field goal in the final minutes of the regional.

 

I will never forget that game and how long it seemed to take for Damon Fine's kick to get to the uprights.  It was like slow motion.

 

Ben Davis had great games that year at Penn, barely beat Terre Haute South, and actually trailed LN at the half 9-7.

Edited by BDGiant93

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Arlington played Ben Davis tougher than any opponent during the 99' season. Ben Davis posted a perfect 15-0 record and won the 5A state championship. Ben Davis beat their tournament opponents by an average of 30.5 points while destroying Bloomington South 38-0 in the semi state and hammering Penn 27-3 in the state finals. Arlington would have definitely won the 5A state championship in 99' if not for a 56 yard BD field goal in the final minutes of the regional.

Penn played a really bad game in the state finals, because Ben Davis forced that bad game. I think Arlington would have been a better game to watch.  However, Ben Davis was clearly the best team in the state that year.  Arlington may have beat Penn in the state title game, but I don't think it would have been to the tune of 27-3.

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Center Grove has clearly established themselves as the team to beat in 6A following a convincing win over Ben Davis Friday. Leading 31-6 at one point, Center Grove took a commanding lead in the MIC. Still have a couple of tough tests looming with Pike and Cathedral left on the schedule.

Carmel held on against Pike who was looking for back to back upsets after beating Ben Davis a week earlier. Carmel may not catch Center Grove but my bet is for these two to meet again Thanksgiving weekend with a lot more on the line.

Newcomer Cathedral's stock continues to rise after routing rival Chatard. Chatard is very good team regardless of class and always a tough out whoever they play.

Despite a loss, Penn held their own as their comeback attempt fell just short against Michigan's and one of the nations best teams. Think they'll meet Carmel in semi-state and a win there wouldn't be shocking. Think as of now, the first 4 teams I listed will be 1-4 when the next polls come out.

I understand Warren is banged up, but a little puzzling Lawrence Central played them that tough. I've yet to be impressed with Lawrence Central this year.

HSE might be the sleeper in sectional 4. They continue to find ways to win and their comeback win over Fishers was nothing more than spectacular. A Fishers loss leaves the HCC race wide open.

Pike and Avon both have shown to have high powered offenses. Sectional 5 is wide open and I'm not ready to say Ben Davis will be the one to win it.

Brownsburg again continues to disappoint. Unbelievable talent on the offensive side of the ball, just wondering when their defense will show up.

Edited by Footballking16

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How soon we forget that the last two years (the only years 6A football has been in existence) the hottest team in September did NOT win the title.  I said it before and I'll say it again, don't pencil in CG as the team to beat.  Warren two years ago and BD last year proved that its about health, getting hot, and a bit lucky when you are talking all of these powerhouse schools.  I think there are a DOZEN yes a DOZEN teams that could hoist the trophy.

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How soon we forget that the last two years (the only years 6A football has been in existence) the hottest team in September did NOT win the title. I said it before and I'll say it again, don't pencil in CG as the team to beat. Warren two years ago and BD last year proved that its about health, getting hot, and a bit lucky when you are talking all of these powerhouse schools. I think there are a DOZEN yes a DOZEN teams that could hoist the trophy.

I think a dozen is a stretch. Looking at the sectionals coming from the North; Penn, Carmel, HSE Fishers (4) it's impossible for more than 1 team to come out of sectional 4 so you're looking at Penn-Sectional 4 winner.

In the South; Pike, Avon, Ben Davis, Cathedral, Warren, Center Grove (6). Again only 1 team can come out of sectional 5 so that eliminates 2 out of 3 between Pike, Avon, and BD.

That being said you are correct: depth and attrition plus some luck goes into winning it all. If CG runs the table very good chance they'd have rematches in regional-state games. Warren regional and either Ben Davis-Pike-Cathedral in semi-state and then possibly Carmel in the finals. Always tough to beat a team twice. But as it stands, after week 4 Center Grove has established themselves as the team to beat.

Edited by Footballking16

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How soon we forget that the last two years (the only years 6A football has been in existence) the hottest team in September did NOT win the title. I said it before and I'll say it again, don't pencil in CG as the team to beat. Warren two years ago and BD last year proved that its about health, getting hot, and a bit lucky when you are talking all of these powerhouse schools. I think there are a DOZEN yes a DOZEN teams that could hoist the trophy.

Yes....been thinking the same thing - especially about MIC teams recently.

Seems almost like the kiss of death the last few years when one MIC team beats another in the regular season....then has to play them again in playoffs.

Don't know if I'd go as far as a dozen but I'd go as high as 8.

Edited by Lysander

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Penn, Carmel, Fishers, HSE, Cathedral, Warren, Center Grove. Ben Davis, Brownsburg, Avon, Pike

 

I stand corrected...11.

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Ben Davis may be a year away.  I don't know.  Just seem very young.

 

Center Grove is the team to beat.  Doesn't mean they will win it, but they are the one with the big target on them for the others to try to catch...and rightly so.

Edited by BDGiant93
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IPS School or not, they would have run into Pike too.  Pike's dominated the class era and BD's spent most of the time within its Sectional.  I'm not here to debate the quality of IPS basketball.  Northwest has been very competitive with BD over the years as has Tech.

I'm a Pike grad, but heck, Ben Davis' basketball teams have been really, really solid, but are in a loaded sectional. 

 

The old Ben Davis sectional in single-class had two big Marion County schools (Pike/BD), two IPS schools (Northwest/Washington) and Brebeuf was always a factor. For the last 15 or so years of single-class, Pike and Ben Davis dominated, with Alan Henderson's Brebeuf team winning it a couple of times. Since class hoops, Pike/BD have continued to be pretty competitive with each other in the sectional (and Pike has been pretty dominant no matter who its opponents), but they've been grouped with Brownsburg/Avon, been with IPS schools, been with Decatur Central and Southport ... doesn't really matter. Pike & BD have generally been the two strongest teams in that tourney. 

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I'm a Pike grad, but heck, Ben Davis' basketball teams have been really, really solid, but are in a loaded sectional. 

 

The old Ben Davis sectional in single-class had two big Marion County schools (Pike/BD), two IPS schools (Northwest/Washington) and Brebeuf was always a factor. For the last 15 or so years of single-class, Pike and Ben Davis dominated.

Pike won two sectional championships in the 15 years prior to class basketball. Ben Davis won nine during the same period, however, their run started with the implementation of federal court ordered busing of IPS students to township schools. Most of their best players were bused from Indianapolis Washington.

Indianapolis Washington won five of the final seven sectional championships held at Ben Davis prior to federal court ordered busing. Ben Davis recorded a total of four sectional championships prior to busing.

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Pike won two sectional championships in the 15 years prior to class basketball. Ben Davis won nine during the same period, however, their run started with the implementation of federal court ordered busing of IPS students to township schools. Most of their best players were bused from Indianapolis Washington.

Indianapolis Washington won five of the final seven sectional championships held at Ben Davis prior to federal court ordered busing. Ben Davis recorded a total of four sectional championships prior to busing.

 

This is why that 1995 game between Washington and Ben Davis in the Regional meant so much.  

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I think a dozen is a stretch. Looking at the sectionals coming from the North; Penn, Carmel, HSE Fishers (4) it's impossible for more than 1 team to come out of sectional 4 so you're looking at Penn-Sectional 4 winner.

In the South; Pike, Avon, Ben Davis, Cathedral, Warren, Center Grove (6). Again only 1 team can come out of sectional 5 so that eliminates 2 out of 3 between Pike, Avon, and BD.

And in the championship game only  2 teams have a chance.  

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Anybody see the Lawrence Central/Pike game? I assumed a Pike victory but rather they were crushed 61 to 28 by LC. Over the first 4 games of the season LC had scored a total of 86 points. Against Pike they scored 61.

Does Pike have significant injuries?

I never saw that lopsided score coming. Also, noticed that LC is now #10 in 6A per Sags.

I will be interested to see how they perform against Center Grove next week.

Edited by Lysander

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Just shows how tough the MIC is you could come in 6th in that conference, and be really freaking good.

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Just shows how tough the MIC is you could come in 6th in that conference, and be really freaking good.

That's true coach...another reason why I never get too excited about the first half of a season...sometimes as you know, it takes a few games to get the O line and the offense clicking.  Sometimes, teams get healthy at a couple of key positions that can make a whale of a difference.

 

Back in 2011, CG went 9-5 and was wiped out by Carmel during the regular season....they got on a roll in the playoffs and lost to Carmel in a heartbreaker 21-17 at their place in the semi-state, after having a 17-0 lead, and a real chance to win down on the goal line at the end of the game.  Carmel went on to destroy Penn in the championship game.  

 

It is no shocker that a team in the middle of the pack in the MIC go on a run during the playoffs.  LC sure got my attention last night!!

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