Temp's 6A Bracket Analysis

[MonkeyButt]

Just now, FastpacedO said:

2015 Center Grove beat Penn 28-16, was that not competing?

Maybe. But if Penn was even in the game that is still one championship game since 2014.

[PDB26]

4 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

2015 Center Grove beat Penn 28-16, was that not competing?

@MonkeyButt probably should have said "consistently competing" or more than "occasionally competing". I do think you could say that Penn was consistently competing with Carmel for a  stretch from 2013-2017. Being honest, it hasn't been pretty for the true north for about 20 years now.

[Rodney]

1 hour ago, MonkeyButt said:

I am not familiar with CP's schedule and because they are in the north and I am from central Indiana I tend to have the central Indy mentality that many 6A northern teams are overrated in comparison to teams in Indy and the surrounding area.

this is warranted

DAC football is suboptimal

[FastpacedO]

5 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

Maybe. But if Penn was even in the game that is still one championship game since 2014.

The statement was "I have yet to see a 6A team from the north come close to competing with an Indy team for a state championship title". I just gave an instance regardless and it was 7 years ago. There is no if it was 21-16 in the 4th qtr between Penn and CG. I would 100% call that competitive.

3 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

@MonkeyButt probably should have said "consistently competing" or more than "occasionally competing". I do think you could say that Penn was consistently competing with Carmel for a  stretch from 2013-2017. Being honest, it hasn't been pretty for the true north for about 20 years now.

It hasn't but there has been competitive game between Central Indiana and Northern Indiana teams at the Regional Semi-State Level. It's not the State Championship but they gave a battle to a Central Indiana team in the Regional or Semi-State, but it ended up being 2 Central Indiana teams in teh State Cgponship game

[MonkeyButt]

1 minute ago, FastpacedO said:

2015 Center Grove beat Penn 28-16, was that not competing?

Note 6A has only been around since 2013 so 9 years old. Back in 5A (pre 6A) the last true Northern team to win (not Central Indiana) was Penn in 2000 with a 21-0 win over Center Grove.

I know this argument is as "old as time" that Indy teams are better but looking at tournament history in the 2000's and then 5A prior to 6A formation they are in regards to larger schools (5A and 6A). Penn and FW Snider are the only northern teams (tru north, not just northern bracket) to win in this decade and that was once each. AND if we go back further in 5A all the way back to 1985 only 4 times did a northern team win and again that was the same two teams, FW Snider and Penn. So in the last 36 years a team from the north has won state in either 5A or 6A a total of 6 times. Indy teams have largely dominated. Even if it is a close game, they aren't taking the title home on even a semi-regular basis. I am not saying northern teams are overrated, but they have been largely dominated in the sense that they aren't able to win the championship when it is all said and done. 

[MonkeyButt]

1 hour ago, PDB26 said:

@MonkeyButt probably should have said "consistently competing" or more than "occasionally competing". I do think you could say that Penn was consistently competing with Carmel for a  stretch from 2013-2017. Being honest, it hasn't been pretty for the true north for about 20 years now.

Fair enough

 

[MonkeyButt]

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

The statement was "I have yet to see a 6A team from the north come close to competing with an Indy team for a state championship title". I just gave an instance regardless and it was 7 years ago. There is no if it was 21-16 in the 4th qtr between Penn and CG. I would 100% call that competitive.

It hasn't but there has been competitive game between Central Indiana and Northern Indiana teams at the Regional Semi-State Level. It's not the State Championship but they gave a battle to a Central Indiana team in the Regional or Semi-State, but it ended up being 2 Central Indiana teams in teh State Cgponship game

I get what you are saying. But why do the Indy teams pull them out regularly? Why do they win the tight games more often than not? Is it because their are more battle tested? Since being in Indy and see the history of winners in 5A and 6A it baffled me that Indy teams do win as much as they do as far as titles. Is it because Indy area teams have tougher schedules and are overall better? I curious on y'alls take who are more familiar with northern school schedules.

 

[BTF]

16 hours ago, MonkeyButt said:

I know this argument is as "old as time" that Indy teams are better but looking at tournament history in the 2000's and then 5A prior to 6A formation they are in regards to larger schools (5A and 6A). Penn and FW Snider are the only northern teams (tru north, not just northern bracket) to win in this decade and that was once each. AND if we go back further in 5A all the way back to 1985 only 4 times did a northern team win and again that was the same two teams, FW Snider and Penn. So in the last 36 years a team from the north has won state in either 5A or 6A a total of 6 times. Indy teams have largely dominated. Even if it is a close game, they aren't taking the title home on even a semi-regular basis. I am not saying northern teams are overrated, but they have been largely dominated in the sense that they aren't able to win the championship when it is all said and done. 

I would argue that Snider had the best team in the state of Indiana in '86, '92, '97, and '04. It took Carmel overtime to beat Snider in '86 and Snider was without their starting quarterback and turned the ball over four times. The '04 team is arguable. Warren Central was very good. But they did have some lucky bounces to their way in defeating a Snider team whose D1 running back was out with a broken ankle. 

But the main question here is whether or not anyone up north has been competitive in the last 9 years. Yes they have. It was Penn in 2015. 

As far as Indy teams being better? No, that's just not the case. In fact, Indy football inside the donut is utterly awful. The teams out of Indy that dominate the rest of the state are the three mega giants...........Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central. And the suburban schools who outnumber most of their competition in terms of enrollment. But to say Indy football is better? That's completely false. 

[temptation]

17 hours ago, MonkeyButt said:

I get what you are saying. But why do the Indy teams pull them out regularly? Why do they win the tight games more often than not? Is it because their are more battle tested? Since being in Indy and see the history of winners in 5A and 6A it baffled me that Indy teams do win as much as they do as far as titles. Is it because Indy area teams have tougher schedules and are overall better? I curious on y'alls take who are more familiar with northern school schedules.

 

You answered your own question...when you reach the tournament and can look your players in the eye and say "we've been here before" or "we've played teams tougher than our semi-state/state opponent in OCTOBER (no coach would actually say this out loud, lol) it is a huge advantage...and with the recent tournament results at the 6A level, its nearly impossible to argue that these are true statements.

Combine that with the commitment to the sport being more serious in central Indiana in terms of pay, teaching schedule, facilities, etc...and the enrollment advantages in most cases, which can not be ignored.

[Boilernation]

On 11/1/2022 at 9:32 PM, Boilerup said:

Cp is not overrated! They are 10-0 ! Just because everyone goes by rankings , does that mean they don’t deserve the high praise by coaches and media around the state  are giving them!  The players and the coaches are undefeated for a reason!    May not be to your liking but they have not lost this year. 
For Cp to advance in this weeks game and later games they must run the ball and eat as much clock as they can and play field position against every team ahead of them.  Make teams have long drives to score and keep the clock in their favor!  Carroll, HSE,Westfield have better athletes than CP . In my opinion I don’t  think CP defense can stop Carroll’s passing game .  They sure can’t stop HSE passing game!  From what I have seen they have the best Receivers in the State!
CP is on their way to be a contender in the North, just not yet. 

So let’s not pop-poo their achievements! U have to start somewhere! 

 

Overrated. I love Region football and will always watch. But, enough is enough. 6A football up there just isn’t good. If I were Buzea I would strictly focus on scheduling Central Indiana teams in OOC. Rivalry games against Andrean and Lowell do nothing but add fluff to the Dogs record. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Boilernation

[BTF]

Speaking of scheduling, let's give some props to Carroll:

2023: Hamilton Southeastern, Warren Central, Snider, Homestead, Dwenger, and North Side. They'll be tested by all six of those teams. Not sure which three teams will fill out their schedule. 

[FastpacedO]

On 11/3/2022 at 7:07 AM, BTF said:

I would argue that Snider had the best team in the state of Indiana in '86, '92, '97, and '04. It took Carmel overtime to beat Snider in '86 and Snider was without their starting quarterback and turned the ball over four times. The '04 team is arguable. Warren Central was very good. But they did have some lucky bounces to their way in defeating a Snider team whose D1 running back was out with a broken ankle. 

But the main question here is whether or not anyone up north has been competitive in the last 9 years. Yes they have. It was Penn in 2015. 

As far as Indy teams being better? No, that's just not the case. In fact, Indy football inside the donut is utterly awful. The teams out of Indy that dominate the rest of the state are the three mega giants...........Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central. And the suburban schools who outnumber most of their competition in terms of enrollment. But to say Indy football is better? That's completely false. 

I disagree, but to each their own. I am sure Warren Central had some injuries as well. However a young Darren Evans and Dexter Taylor played just fine against Snider in that win. If by lucky bounce you mean a Snider player muffing a punt or a option pitch that hit the ground and bounced up to Taylor, it still doesn't take away from what the Warriors did that game. There is no doubt the 04 WC team was the best team in the State Championship #2 of 4 straight I do believe.

 

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I disagree, but to each their own. I am sure Warren Central had some injuries as well. However a young Darren Evans and Dexter Taylor played just fine against Snider in that win. If by lucky bounce you mean a Snider player muffing a punt or a option pitch that hit the ground and bounced up to Taylor, it still doesn't take away from what the Warriors did that game. There is no doubt the 04 WC team was the best team in the State Championship #2 of 4 straight I do believe.

 

 

6 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I disagree, but to each their own. I am sure Warren Central had some injuries as well. However a young Darren Evans and Dexter Taylor played just fine against Snider in that win. If by lucky bounce you mean a Snider player muffing a punt or a option pitch that hit the ground and bounced up to Taylor, it still doesn't take away from what the Warriors did that game. There is no doubt the 04 WC team was the best team in the State Championship #2 of 4 straight I do believe.

 

Don't forget about WC's 99 yard hail mary that was actually well defended. I think it's safe to say WC had a few more bounces go there way. Kudos to them, they came away with the victory. I think Snider's D1 running back sitting on the bench was the difference, but that's just me. Anyway.................I'm just making a point that the North has their fair share of good football. 

[Warren Central Warrior]

33 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I disagree, but to each their own. I am sure Warren Central had some injuries as well. However a young Darren Evans and Dexter Taylor played just fine against Snider in that win. If by lucky bounce you mean a Snider player muffing a punt or a option pitch that hit the ground and bounced up to Taylor, it still doesn't take away from what the Warriors did that game. There is no doubt the 04 WC team was the best team in the State Championship #2 of 4 straight I do believe.

 

You are correct. I was a sophomore at Warren Central when the Warriors won their second consecutive state title. They became the first ever Indiana high school football team to 4peat

[Yuccaguy]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Speaking of scheduling, let's give some props to Carroll:

2023: Hamilton Southeastern, Warren Central, Snider, Homestead, Dwenger, and North Side. They'll be tested by all six of those teams. Not sure which three teams will fill out their schedule. 

Week 3 - Carroll @ South Side

Week 6 - Wayne @ Carroll 

Week 8 - Carroll @ Northrop 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Yuccaguy

[Yuccaguy]

7 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Week 3 - Carroll @ South Side

Week 6 - Wayne @ Carroll 

Week 8 - Carroll @ Northrop 

 

The guys have ONE featured Carroll game.. gonna be a "short night" and turn around....plus travel.

Get your Detective specks on to figure it out!

Edited November 5, 2022 by Yuccaguy

[BTF]

6 hours ago, Warren Central Warrior said:

You are correct. I was a sophomore at Warren Central when the Warriors won their second consecutive state title. They became the first ever Indiana high school football team to 4peat

Great accomplishment for sure. Warren Central was a beast under the direction of Kevin Wright. I know many call that the greatest 4-year span in football (large division).

[Bobref]

7 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

There is no doubt the 04 WC team was the best team in the State Championship #2 of 4 straight I do believe.

I don’t know. I’ve seen pretty much every big school championship game for the last 30 yrs. The 2003 Warren team’s performance was the best I’ve ever seen. Of course, I had a pretty good vantage point for that one.

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

I don’t know. I’ve seen pretty much every big school championship game for the last 30 yrs. The 2003 Warren team’s performance was the best I’ve ever seen. Of course, I had a pretty good vantage point for that one.

I think he was suggesting that there's no doubt Warren Central had the best team in the state in '04. I suggested otherwise had Quale Lewis been healthy. Either way, that was the best 4 year run I've seen by a large division team.