4A #1 New Palestine at #2 Roncalli

[CaptainHook]

1 minute ago, Bobref said:

I’ve seen both this clip and the sideline Hudl view. Neither is helpful. You can’t see most of the runner’s body on the end zone view, and the sideline view is from the opposite side of the field. The runner’s body is between the camera and the football. The one thing I did notice was that the linesman is coming in about to make a very emphatic “down” signal, and he had a better view than either of the video angles. I don’t think there’s much of a controversy here.

c'mon man

[indycoach10]

2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I’ve seen both this clip and the sideline Hudl view. Neither is helpful. You can’t see most of the runner’s body on the end zone view, and the sideline view is from the opposite side of the field. The runner’s body is between the camera and the football. The one thing I did notice was that the linesman is coming in about to make a very emphatic “down” signal, and he had a better view than either of the video angles. I don’t think there’s much of a controversy here.

The Roncalli folks I’ve talked to disagree with your assessment, but doesn’t really matter at this point. 

[CaptainHook]

I have now sent you the sideline view as well.  No part of the RB is ever down.

4 minutes ago, indycoach10 said:

The Roncalli folks I’ve talked to disagree with your assessment, but doesn’t really matter at this point. 

this is true!

[The TW]

What about when the referee mishandled the ball at half tIme and cost Roncalli the opportunity for a field goal (literally dropped it off his foot). Or the numerous holding calls on the edge of the pocket on key third downs that were missed? Or the no call on the pass interference on Roncalli’s drive immediately following their second score? Or the numerous spots NP benefited from both with and without the ball on key third downs?

I’m sure New Pal fans can come up with a similar litany of times they were hosed. Both teams played their hearts out. The officials were balanced at worst. 

[Impartial_Observer]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Cannot make that call from a still photo. That’s clip #130 of the Hudl video? It hasn’t been shared with the IFOA yet, or I’d have access to it. PM me if you can share it with me, and I’ll give you the e-mail I use for Hudl. Better yet, have the coaching staff share it with the IFOA.

Both teams seem to take multiple emails to get a copy. 

[Bobref]

58 minutes ago, indycoach10 said:

The Roncalli folks I’ve talked to disagree with your assessment, but doesn’t really matter at this point. 

 

54 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

I have now sent you the sideline view as well.  No part of the RB is ever down.

this is true!

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. Let me be clear. I’m not saying it either was or wasn’t a fumble. I’m saying the Hudl video is inconclusive. If this were NFL replay, they would say the call on the field “stands,” i.e., on the basis of the video, the call on the field can be neither reversed nor confirmed.

[CaptainHook]

10 minutes ago, Bobref said:

 

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. Let me be clear. I’m not saying it either was or wasn’t a fumble. I’m saying the Hudl video is inconclusive. If this were NFL replay, they would say the call on the field “stands,” i.e., on the basis of the video, the call on the field can be neither reversed nor confirmed.

We will definitely agree to disagree on that. Sideline view shows RB feet 4’ in the air, so his knees are clearly not down. End zone view shows his head, shoulders and elbows are not down either. He is on top of a player as ball comes out. Sideline judge just missed it. And it’s ok to say that.

Edited November 12, 2022 by CaptainHook

[Komets2727]

And the “paper tiger#1” goes down again…

[The TW]

It’s ridiculous to call New Pal a paper tiger. There’s no way you’ve seen them play if you think that. They are monstrous. Literally. They were the most physical team I’ve seen in a long time - like old school GCL mean. There are only a handful of teams in the state that could compete with them and none for which a victory could be assured ahead of kickoff. 

[JustRules]

7 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

We will definitely agree to disagree on that. Sideline view shows RB feet 4’ in the air, so his knees are clearly not down. End zone view shows his head, shoulders and elbows are not down either. He is on top of a player as ball comes out. Sideline judge just missed it. And it’s ok to say that.

You do realize the knee is not the only body part that makes a runner down? Anything but a hand or foot. In your own picture it appears the helmet is on the ground so that shows you are already incorrect on one of your facts. The ball is already loose in that photo so we don't know how long the helmet was on the ground before the ball became loose. That's why you can't use a still photo as evidence.

These types of plays are generally not conclusive on Hudl video. That type of precision is not what coach videos are trying to capture.

You may be 100% correct but it's very unlikely these videos are conclusive either way. And stills definitely don't prove anything. Your best argument is you and everyone you talked with fell it was a fumble. Unfortunately only one opinion matters and that was the unbiased person on the sideline who had a great view. He had the best chance of getting it right. 

[Bobref]

5 hours ago, JustRules said:

You do realize the knee is not the only body part that makes a runner down? Anything but a hand or foot. In your own picture it appears the helmet is on the ground so that shows you are already incorrect on one of your facts. The ball is already loose in that photo so we don't know how long the helmet was on the ground before the ball became loose. That's why you can't use a still photo as evidence.

These types of plays are generally not conclusive on Hudl video. That type of precision is not what coach videos are trying to capture.

You may be 100% correct but it's very unlikely these videos are conclusive either way. And stills definitely don't prove anything. Your best argument is you and everyone you talked with fell it was a fumble. Unfortunately only one opinion matters and that was the unbiased person on the sideline who had a great view. He had the best chance of getting it right. 

What he said.

[CaptainHook]

9 hours ago, JustRules said:

You do realize the knee is not the only body part that makes a runner down? Anything but a hand or foot. In your own picture it appears the helmet is on the ground so that shows you are already incorrect on one of your facts. The ball is already loose in that photo so we don't know how long the helmet was on the ground before the ball became loose. That's why you can't use a still photo as evidence.

These types of plays are generally not conclusive on Hudl video. That type of precision is not what coach videos are trying to capture.

You may be 100% correct but it's very unlikely these videos are conclusive either way. And stills definitely don't prove anything. Your best argument is you and everyone you talked with fell it was a fumble. Unfortunately only one opinion matters and that was the unbiased person on the sideline who had a great view. He had the best chance of getting it right. 

Really?  It's not just knees? 🙄

Did you read any of the rest of my posts?  It's a still photo taken the moment a body part hits the ground and the ball is already out.

It is pretty clear on the two videos when you piece them together...I'm not going by a still photo...if you'd like to see them, shoot me a pm

Edited November 13, 2022 by CaptainHook

[FastpacedO]

4 hours ago, Bobref said:

What he said.

Curious question, in HS football if an offensive player is on top of a defender are they considered down by contact? If not does that mean the can roll over top of a defender then continue to run? Honest question because i know HS rules are somewhat different than College and definitely NFL.

Edited November 13, 2022 by FastpacedO

[CaptainHook]

29 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Curious question, in HS football if an offensive player is on top of a defender are they considered down by contact? If not does that mean the can roll over top of a defender then continue to run? Honest question because i know HS rules are somewhat different than College and definitely NFL.

They are not down until a body part besides the hand touches the ground.  The NP RB rolled off a tackle and went to the end zone in the first game vs Mt. Vernon this year.

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, CaptainHook said:

besides the hand

or foot

2 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

It's a still photo taken the moment a body part hits the ground

😂🤣😅

[CaptainHook]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

or foot

😂🤣😅

thanks for clarifying that a foot isn't down 🙄

from the sideline video you can see his lower body, and from the end zone cam you can see his upper body 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 13, 2022 by CaptainHook

[fenderbender]

Just for reference, the kid in the middle is 6’7” and 290lbs.  

[FastpacedO]

19 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

They are not down until a body part besides the hand touches the ground.  The NP RB rolled off a tackle and went to the end zone in the first game vs Mt. Vernon this year.

Thank you @CaptainHookI was just checking because I know various rules are different in HS than College or Pro. Appreciate the response.

[crimsonace1]

Bottom line, even with the fumble/no-fumble call (and it looked out from my perspective, but I'm not exactly unbiased), NP would've had to drive the length of the field against a defense it had struggled to move the ball against. Roncalli's OL/DL were as good as any I've seen at the high school level, especially in 4A. 

The one real officiating "mistake" was a play where NP was called for illegal man downfield on a TD pass. It was actually an illegal forward pass - the QB was a half-yard ahead of the LOS when he threw the ball but in watching the video last night, it appeared all five linemen were behind the LOS. The misapplication/confusion likely worked in NP's favor, as illegal forward pass is a loss of down penalty, but the Dragons failed to convert on 4th-and-1 later that series, so it was all moot. 

[CaptainHook]

5 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

Bottom line, even with the fumble/no-fumble call (and it looked out from my perspective, but I'm not exactly unbiased), NP would've had to drive the length of the field against a defense it had struggled to move the ball against. Roncalli's OL/DL were as good as any I've seen at the high school level, especially in 4A. 

The one real officiating "mistake" was a play where NP was called for illegal man downfield on a TD pass. It was actually an illegal forward pass - the QB was a half-yard ahead of the LOS when he threw the ball but in watching the video last night, it appeared all five linemen were behind the LOS. The misapplication/confusion likely worked in NP's favor, as illegal forward pass is a loss of down penalty, but the Dragons failed to convert on 4th-and-1 later that series, so it was all moot. 

agree with all of this