Snider vs Valpo

[GOLDRUSH1985]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Obviously with such a bold statement, you've got data to back it up.

Mind sharing your 40 year old spreadsheet?

That's the difference between Living Indiana high school football for 40 + years or just researching through spreadsheets . My spreadsheet is experiencing games first hand . Is your name Will Hunting ?

[GOLDRUSH1985]

27 minutes ago, temptation said:

Asking the wrong guy.  

@GOLDRUSH1985, you're on the clock.

Go ask as many HOF coaches you can find if they feel that a 2 hr bus trip makes a difference . 

[temptation]

20 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

That's the difference between Living Indiana high school football for 40 + years or just researching through spreadsheets . My spreadsheet is experiencing games first hand . Is your name Will Hunting ?

Then I am sure you can reference 40 years of games off the top of your head.

Go for it...otherwise you are just a poser.

16 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Go ask as many HOF coaches you can find if they feel that a 2 hr bus trip makes a difference . 

Got their e-mails?  

Go for it.

The burden of proof is on you.

[GOLDRUSH1985]

But yet we all supposed to believe the Almighty Temptation when he says it doesn't make a difference . Where is your Spreadsheet that says it doesn't make a difference?  Any long ride , rather it be Plane , car, bus, and train has an effect on the human body . Rather it be sports , academics etc. 

[Rodney]

13 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

But yet we all supposed to believe the Almighty Temptation when he says it doesn't make a difference . Where is your Spreadsheet that says it doesn't make a difference?  Any long ride , rather it be Plane , car, bus, and train has an effect on the human body . Rather it be sports , academics etc. 

Some people are just built different.

I once drove 36 hours straight through the night  in order to make it home in time to go to the bars Saturday.
 

straight out the u haul and to the bars at 6pm 

 

side note: a 2 hour bus ride ain't shit.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Rodney

[temptation]

36 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

But yet we all supposed to believe the Almighty Temptation when he says it doesn't make a difference . Where is your Spreadsheet that says it doesn't make a difference?  Any long ride , rather it be Plane , car, bus, and train has an effect on the human body . Rather it be sports , academics etc. 

Don't put words in my mouth.  I stated that in this specific case, it won't make much of a difference.  Its actually not really provable so anyone can throw out theories.  You can't point to a fumble, a missed tackle, an interception or a kick that misses wide left as being due to travel.

Its an overstated built in excuse/idiom that has grown legs over time.  Sports are filled with them.

"Its tough to beat a team three times."

"Two quarterbacks mean you really don't have one."

I could go on all day.

These are high school kids.  Two hours is round trip to the grocery store in some rural places.  Don't overthink it.

Side note, check the other thread.  I have Whiteland "overcoming" a long bus ride to Newburgh and rolling Castle.

23 minutes ago, Rodney said:

Some people are just built different.

I once drove 36 hours straight through the night  in order to make it home in time to go to the bars Saturday.
 

straight out the u haul and to the bars at 6pm 

 

side note: a 2 hour bus ride ain't shit.

Correct.  I have done the same and am over twice the age of anyone playing Friday night.

How do they ever do it in Texas, Florida and California?

Edited November 15, 2022 by temptation

[slice60]

On 11/14/2022 at 11:17 AM, Boilernation said:

Valpo doesn't have Charles Salary (great RB at LaPorte and Marian U) or a long time HC eyeing his final shot at a State Final's appearance. The stars aligned for the Slicers in 2014. Snider is fine this year if they just show up and play their game. Valpo doesn't have enough offensive talent to win a shootout. The fact Valpo is still alive is a testament to how well Marshall is coaching them and they were fortunate enough to only have Duneland opponens on their playoff schedule up to this point. I think the run ends Friday night at Northrop.

Yes, the stars aligned for the Slicers, especially that night. I drove from Indy to FW to meet my Dad (retired Slicer AD who hired Bob Schellinger). Temps were right around 0 degrees & those frozen conditions favored LP for sure. Best night ever to be a Slicer.

 

[BTF]

I always felt that Snider played poorly when they traveled long distances to the Region or Indy. I actually researched this last week, but couldn't find any data to back it up. When it comes to data, I have to side with Temp on this one. 

My common sense tells me that a two hour bus ride has to have some sort of negative affect. Maybe there is a difference between riding in a bus 20-30 years ago vs riding in a bus today. Do teams still travel in the run of the mill yellow school buses? If so, that kind of sucks for two hours. The buses Snider took to Mishawaka looked like luxury busses to me. That could be the difference right there. 

Goldrush could argue that it took Snider an entire half to find their footing against Mishawaka and MAYBE had something to do with going down 21 points. Personally, I just think the game came down to adjustments for the Panthers.

Being a Penn guy, I can see where Goldrush may have a point. The Kingsman seem to play MUCH better at home than they do when they travel. It didn't do them any favors this year against Carroll. But it seems like they play they Indy teams better when they don't travel. 

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, BTF said:

I always felt that Snider played poorly when they traveled long distances to the Region or Indy. I actually researched this last week, but couldn't find any data to back it up. When it comes to data, I have to side with Temp on this one. 

My common sense tells me that a two hour bus ride has to have some sort of negative affect. Maybe there is a difference between riding in a bus 20-30 years ago vs riding in a bus today. Do teams still travel in the run of the mill yellow school buses? If so, that kind of sucks for two hours. The buses Snider took to Mishawaka looked like luxury busses to me. That could be the difference right there. 

Goldrush could argue that it took Snider an entire half to find their footing against Mishawaka and MAYBE had something to do with going down 21 points. Personally, I just think the game came down to adjustments for the Panthers.

Being a Penn guy, I can see where Goldrush may have a point. The Kingsman seem to play MUCH better at home than they do when they travel. It didn't do them any favors this year against Carroll. But it seems like they play they Indy teams better when they don't travel. 

I'd be shocked if HSE were not traveling up Friday night in a chartered bus...

[BTF]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

I'd be shocked if HSE were not traveling up Friday night in a chartered bus...

I'll let you know. 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

3 hours ago, temptation said:

Don't put words in my mouth.  I stated that in this specific case, it won't make much of a difference.  Its actually not really provable so anyone can throw out theories.  You can't point to a fumble, a missed tackle, an interception or a kick that misses wide left as being due to travel.

Its an overstated built in excuse/idiom that has grown legs over time.  Sports are filled with them.

"Its tough to beat a team three times."

"Two quarterbacks mean you really don't have one."

I could go on all day.

These are high school kids.  Two hours is round trip to the grocery store in some rural places.  Don't overthink it.

Side note, check the other thread.  I have Whiteland "overcoming" a long bus ride to Newburgh and rolling Castle.

Correct.  I have done the same and am over twice the age of anyone playing Friday night.

How do they ever do it in Texas, Florida and California?

And I think Whiteland would win if they drove in a school bus to Florida . I feel that Whiteland is that much better that it will not matter . Are you thinking that HSE rolls Carroll ?

[temptation]

19 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

And I think Whiteland would win if they drove in a school bus to Florida . I feel that Whiteland is that much better that it will not matter . Are you thinking that HSE rolls Carroll ?

Earlier you made the statement of ALL SEMISTATE games.  Whiteland/Castle still qualifies.

I expect HSE to win fairly handily but not by as big of a margin as I am expecting from Whiteland.  I think Carroll will be slightly more competitive against HSE than Castle is against Whiteland.

Edited November 15, 2022 by temptation

[BTF]

The only skepticism I have toward Carroll is past performance by all 6a teams outside of the Indy area.

It's hard to ignore that not only did Carroll defeat Homestead by a larger margin than HSE did, but they also beat Penn by a larger margin than Cathedral. Not one, but two examples. 

I understand why fans are cautious though, I'm one of them. 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

56 minutes ago, BTF said:

I always felt that Snider played poorly when they traveled long distances to the Region or Indy. I actually researched this last week, but couldn't find any data to back it up. When it comes to data, I have to side with Temp on this one. 

My common sense tells me that a two hour bus ride has to have some sort of negative affect. Maybe there is a difference between riding in a bus 20-30 years ago vs riding in a bus today. Do teams still travel in the run of the mill yellow school buses? If so, that kind of sucks for two hours. The buses Snider took to Mishawaka looked like luxury busses to me. That could be the difference right there. 

Goldrush could argue that it took Snider an entire half to find their footing against Mishawaka and MAYBE had something to do with going down 21 points. Personally, I just think the game came down to adjustments for the Panthers.

Being a Penn guy, I can see where Goldrush may have a point. The Kingsman seem to play MUCH better at home than they do when they travel. It didn't do them any favors this year against Carroll. But it seems like they play they Indy teams better when they don't travel. 

It was also a little odd that it took Cathedral a whole half to get in gear when they played Penn . I wonder why ? If temp doesn't believe travel is a factor , it's his opinion . Has he ever traveled 2 hrs in a school bus to play a sporting event ,  after sitting in class for 7 hours ? I have and it sucks . Why do we believe the home team has an advantage ?

[temptation]

31 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

It was also a little odd that it took Cathedral a whole half to get in gear when they played Penn . I wonder why ? If temp doesn't believe travel is a factor , it's his opinion . Has he ever traveled 2 hrs in a school bus to play a sporting event ,  after sitting in class for 7 hours ? I have and it sucks . Why do we believe the home team has an advantage ?

Once again, putting words in my mouth.  Travel IS a factor, but a small one, especially in this case (2 hours).  As I also already stated, its immeasurable.  It's a story that has grown legs without sufficient evidence that can be proven.

YES, I have coached and competed in interscholastic athletics for decades and have walked this plank in both roles.

The home teams' advantages are obvious aren't they?  The bus ride to the game is WAY down the list.

Do we think HSE is going to watch "Remember the Titans" or "Friday Night Lights" on their warm, cushioned ride up I-69 on Friday afternoon?  That is the question.

[BTF]

7 hours ago, Bobref said:

Home teams have an advantage.

Do we have data on this at the high school level?

[BTF]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

The home teams' advantages are obvious aren't they? 

Are they? At the high school level? Aside from long road trips. What about games where the team only travels 20 minutes across town?

[Rodney]

48 minutes ago, BTF said:

Are they? At the high school level? Aside from long road trips. What about games where the team only travels 20 minutes across town?

depends, there are some fields you really don't want to have to play at.

for a lot of schools it won't be a factor though.

[BTF]

2 minutes ago, Rodney said:

depends, there are some fields you really don't want to have to play at.

for a lot of schools it won't be a factor though.

Good point. 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Do we have data on this at the high school level?

Look at Sagarin

[temptation]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Are they? At the high school level? Aside from long road trips. What about games where the team only travels 20 minutes across town?

Familiarity with your surroundings, most often more crowd support than your opponent is a good place to start.

[temptation]

Did anyone honestly believe that the Temp was not going to do his homework and let @GOLDRUSH1985’s nonsense slide?

I did his homework for him and can provide the data (though it is currently chicken scratch) upon request when time allows.

Since 2002, (the last 20 IHSAA football tournaments) teams traveling 2+ hours (simply using Google Map data) are 54-62 in the semi-state round of competition.

That’s a 46.6% winning percentage.

Do with that data what you wish but prepare for the goal posts (pun completely intended) to be moved by our friend.

#receipts

Edited November 15, 2022 by temptation

[Bobref]

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

Since 2002, (the last 20 IHSAA football tournaments) teams traveling 2+ hours (simply using Google Map data) are 54-62 in the semi-state round of competition.

How does that compare to visiting teams that traveled less than that amount of time at the semistate level?

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

How does that compare to visiting teams that traveled less than that amount of time at the semistate level?

Now you are asking too much…

I’ve already done his homework for him, he can do the extra credit.

[Bobref]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Now you are asking too much…

I’ve already done his homework for him, he can do the extra credit.

That’s the question that has to be answered to determine whether long travel is a greater disadvantage than short travel.