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On the field rule changes


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Here is my four cents on a few changes I would like to see

1. On field goals attempts if the kicking team misses the ball is spotted at the line of scrimmage not the 20.  
 

2 on kickoffs the receiving team can call a fair change if they are inside the 20 and ball will be spotted at the 20.

3 on a first down a more consistent job between crews on how fast they start the game clock.  I have seen some where it is almost the like they say first down then start the clock and others that what till the down markers are set.

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1) Whis got the spot? R need to write that down or are we going to hire another chain crew member? Philosophically this conflicts with a lot of stuff. 
2) Why should K be penalized for not quite being good enough to get the ball to the EZ?

3) The game clock starts when the box is set, I’m not understanding the lack of consistency?

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1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Here is my four cents on a few changes I would like to see

1. On field goals attempts if the kicking team misses the ball is spotted at the line of scrimmage not the 20.  
 

2 on kickoffs the receiving team can call a fair change if they are inside the 20 and ball will be spotted at the 20.

3 on a first down a more consistent job between crews on how fast they start the game clock.  I have seen some where it is almost the like they say first down then start the clock and others that what till the down markers are set.

 

1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

1) Whis got the spot? R need to write that down or are we going to hire another chain crew member? Philosophically this conflicts with a lot of stuff. 
2) Why should K be penalized for not quite being good enough to get the ball to the EZ?

3) The game clock starts when the box is set, I’m not understanding the lack of consistency?

1. Trojanmp52 has a good point. It is done at every other level.  It cannot be that hard.

2. Don't see it as a priority.

3. Impartial-the inconsistency is in the statement Trajanmp52 made.  Some take the time to wait on the chains, and others do not.  That sounds inconsistent to me.

 

I would like to see covered up TE's and receivers recognized better by crews, and 5 men in the backfield.  I think that these are two things that are missed in games on a consistent basis.

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11 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

would like to see covered up TE's and receivers recognized better by crews, and 5 men in the backfield.  I think that these are two things that are missed in games on a consistent basis.

I can see where you would think that. Lining up on vs. off the line receivers is something that our officials are told not to nitpick. Ordinarily, this is handled as a “talk-to” unless the violations are egregious or repeated.

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14 hours ago, Bobref said:

I can see where you would think that. Lining up on vs. off the line receivers is something that our officials are told not to nitpick. Ordinarily, this is handled as a “talk-to” unless the violations are egregious or repeated.

Honestly, this is a terrible answer.  Defensive coordinators set coverages and defenses based on formations and receivers.  It is important to identify ineligible receivers as a defense.  This is why a covered TE is allowed to go down field and catch passes.  Shouldn't 5 men in the backfield be important?  It is terrible on so many levels.  You are allowing the possibility of 6 eligible receivers!  I'm guessing that if you are not "nitpicking" on vs. off then you don't care if teams have 5 ineligible numbers on the field either? Officials are more worried about the sidelines, if they are being observed, reading the scripted card before the game, if the balls have enough air in them, are they the correct balls, then applying simple on the field basic rules!

I already know your reply will be something in line with not enough eyes, or we do what Mr. Faulkens says, or go to the IFCA, or there is already a shortage of officials "and guys like you are why!"

This is bad to me.

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15 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

Honestly, this is a terrible answer.  Defensive coordinators set coverages and defenses based on formations and receivers.  It is important to identify ineligible receivers as a defense.  This is why a covered TE is allowed to go down field and catch passes.  Shouldn't 5 men in the backfield be important?  It is terrible on so many levels.  You are allowing the possibility of 6 eligible receivers!  I'm guessing that if you are not "nitpicking" on vs. off then you don't care if teams have 5 ineligible numbers on the field either? Officials are more worried about the sidelines, if they are being observed, reading the scripted card before the game, if the balls have enough air in them, are they the correct balls, then applying simple on the field basic rules!

I already know your reply will be something in line with not enough eyes, or we do what Mr. Faulkens says, or go to the IFCA, or there is already a shortage of officials "and guys like you are why!"

This is bad to me.

Just telling you the way it is. Don’t shoot the messenger.

Edited by Bobref
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I hear what you are saying Punt; however, there are a few coaches that push the limits and coach from the bottom of the numbers over and over, all game long. That's one reason for the emphasis on sideline control. Some coaches push the limits to the point, "when are they going to eject this clown"? There are a few officials that get under my skin with the tight assed way rules are applied, but on the whole they do a good job that no one else wants to do!

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1 minute ago, Impartial_Observer said:

As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, that’s the way it’s called in NFL and NCAA. 

What are you talking about?  It was not pointed out earlier in the thread that it is called that way in the NFL and NCAA.

 

16 hours ago, Bobref said:

I can see where you would think that. Lining up on vs. off the line receivers is something that our officials are told not to nitpick. Ordinarily, this is handled as a “talk-to” unless the violations are egregious or repeated.

Bob pointed out that "our officials are told not to nitpick".  I assume since the thread is about high school football, he is referring to high school refs when he says "our".

The rules for covered and uncovered are a different animal in the NFL.  Not apples to apples.

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38 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

What are you talking about?  It was not pointed out earlier in the thread that it is called that way in the NFL and NCAA.

The rules for covered and uncovered are a different animal in the NFL.  Not apples to apples.

 

17 hours ago, Punttheball said:

 

1. Trojanmp52 has a good point. It is done at every other level.  It cannot be that hard.

2. Don't see it as a priority.

3. Impartial-the inconsistency is in the statement Trajanmp52 made.  Some take the time to wait on the chains, and others do not.  That sounds inconsistent to me.

 

I would like to see covered up TE's and receivers recognized better by crews, and 5 men in the backfield.  I think that these are two things that are missed in games on a consistent basis.

 

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1 hour ago, Punttheball said:

Bob pointed out that "our officials are told not to nitpick".  I assume since the thread is about high school football, he is referring to high school refs when he says "our".

I’m talking about the situation where, for example, the widest receiver is on the line, and the slot receiver on that side is off … except he’s not far enough behind the wide receiver to be in the backfield. When he goes downfield on a pass, instead of flagging him for being an ineligible downfield, we’ll talk to him after the play and tell him either to move up a step or back a step. It’s called preventive officiating. And it’s done that way at every level.

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26 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I’m talking about the situation where, for example, the widest receiver is on the line, and the slot receiver on that side is off … except he’s not far enough behind the wide receiver to be in the backfield. When he goes downfield on a pass, instead of flagging him for being an ineligible downfield, we’ll talk to him after the play and tell him either to move up a step or back a step. It’s called preventive officiating. And it’s done that way at every level.

I can appreciate that.  If a slot receiver has put his arm back and is still a questionable covered receiver, I am ok with.  The defense can identify him as an eligible receiver because of his declaration. What I am referring to is covering a TE up and the TE going down field for a pass.  There are teams that do this repeatedly and it is very difficult to get it recognized and called.  It can even be brought up in the pregame meeting with the officials.  

Bob, is 5 in the backfield treated the same?  I have seen repeated plays where the SE declares he is off and four other players are clearly off the line and it is not called or caught by the officials.  

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My suggestion is the same every year for awhile now.  I would like to see OT start from, at least, the 15 yard line so a team could gain a first down and making a FG attempt a little more challenging.  Preferably, it would even be better to begin at the 25 yard line like college OT.

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3 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

My suggestion is the same every year for awhile now.  I would like to see OT start from, at least, the 15 yard line so a team could gain a first down and making a FG attempt a little more challenging.  Preferably, it would even be better to begin at the 25 yard line like college OT.

I think HS OT is perfect. 1 possession, four plays put up or shut up. 

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9 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

DPI should be an automatic first down *in all cases. Keep the HS yardage penalty, but late in games DPI can be abused and the penalty is not severe enough (unlike college and NFL).

I agree with making DPI an automatic first down. But I like the NCAA distance enforcement better.

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1 hour ago, Bobref said:

I agree with making DPI an automatic first down. But I like the NCAA distance enforcement better.

HS football is filled with double tight, wing T, wishbone teams who throw the ball once every quarter. 

DPI on their 5 yd TE dump pass shouldn’t give them 15 yards. 

Is the extra 15 yards for intentional DPI (making it a 30 yard penalty) still in the rule book? Have you ever seen it enforced? 

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14 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

HS football is filled with double tight, wing T, wishbone teams who throw the ball once every quarter. 

DPI on their 5 yd TE dump pass shouldn’t give them 15 yards.

If we used the NCAA enforcement for DPI, that would be a spot foul.

Is the extra 15 yards for intentional DPI (making it a 30 yard penalty) still in the rule book? Have you ever seen it enforced?

“Art. 10 – Pass interference – (S33) – 15 yards. If the pass interference by either player is intentional, his team shall be penalized an additional 15 yards (S27).”

Never seen it called. Never heard of it being called. Don’t want to ever see it called.

 

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11 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

DPI should be an automatic first down *in all cases. Keep the HS yardage penalty, but late in games DPI can be abused and the penalty is not severe enough (unlike college and NFL).

I have no "likes" left but I like this.  It's a shame that the defense can sometimes actually gain advantage with a penalty inside the 30 yard line.

11 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

DPI should be an automatic first down *in all cases. Keep the HS yardage penalty, but late in games DPI can be abused and the penalty is not severe enough (unlike college and NFL).

Of course, I respectfully disagree.

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