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Damar Hamlin


Bobref
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Last night was a sobering reminder that there are things more important than football.

One thing to keep in mind. There has been an awful lot of conversation in recent years about the effects of violent contact on the health of the players, short and long term. But this horrific incident had absolutely nothing to do with the nature of football. This was a sudden cardiac arrest, almost certainly from an arrhythmia, and there was no trauma involved. It could just as easily have happened when he was standing in the checkout line at the grocery store. The outcome will be determined by how quickly and effectively they got chest compressions going while they used a defibrillator to restore a normal sinus rhythm and get blood circulating effectively. Without circulating blood, brain tissue starts to die in just a few minutes. The fact that they were able to restore a heartbeat while he was still on the field is a positive sign. People recover well from cardiac arrest followed by CPR … on TV. In real life, recovery without some type of damage is, unfortunately, uncommon.

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Since I posted that, I’ve spoken to a highly regarded athletic trainer I know. He related that there are a number of case studies of “commotio cordis” resulting from football contact. This is a condition where a sharp blow to a specific place, at a specific point in the heart’s rhythm, results in cardiac arrest. I was aware of cases involving baseball pitchers struck in the chest by a line drive, or a hockey player by a slap shot. So, it’s entirely possible that this routine looking tackle is what caused his arrest.

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44 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Since I posted that, I’ve spoken to a highly regarded athletic trainer I know. He related that there are a number of case studies of “commotio cordis” resulting from football contact. This is a condition where a sharp blow to a specific place, at a specific point in the heart’s rhythm, results in cardiac arrest. I was aware of cases involving baseball pitchers struck in the chest by a line drive, or a hockey player by a slap shot. So, it’s entirely possible that this routine looking tackle is what caused his arrest.

Any other possibilities?

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18 minutes ago, temptation said:

Any other possibilities?

Certainly but they are low probability and probably nothing to do with vaccines like some low IQ individuals on Twitter might think.

I think this is almost certainly the one you hear about in baseball/lacrosse with being hit in the chest very hard at just the wrong time.  Baseball catchers and lacrosse goalies have huge chest pads just for this reason and yet it’s still a risk even with the protection. 

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7 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Certainly but they are low probability and probably nothing to do with vaccines like some low IQ individuals on Twitter might think.

I think this is almost certainly the one you hear about in baseball/lacrosse with being hit in the chest very hard at just the wrong time.  Baseball catchers and lacrosse goalies have huge chest pads just for this reason and yet it’s still a risk even with the protection. 

Gotcha.  Just love how everyone either becomes a medical expert or conveniently has an expert friend in the medical field all of a sudden.

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2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Gotcha.  Just love how everyone either becomes a medical expert or conveniently has an expert friend in the medical field all of a sudden.

That’s social media for you.  I don’t think people are acting like experts when they are sharing the most likely and most known about cause. 
 

anyone who has played baseball, lacrosse, hockey, football has noticed an AED on the sideline.  It’s there for this reason.  The training staff is trained for this exact situation. 
 

the fact that Damar Hamlin is alive and in critical condition right now is because the staff at the nfl game were trained for this exact scenario and their training is what has kept Mr. Hamlin alive so far.  

don’t need to be an expert at all to understand any of this, just have to be a sports fan/former player.  
 

people using this event as a means to push a political agenda, or advance their social media status by grifting, are just disgusting.  

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58 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

That’s social media for you.  I don’t think people are acting like experts when they are sharing the most likely and most known about cause. 
 

anyone who has played baseball, lacrosse, hockey, football has noticed an AED on the sideline.  It’s there for this reason.  The training staff is trained for this exact situation. 
 

the fact that Damar Hamlin is alive and in critical condition right now is because the staff at the nfl game were trained for this exact scenario and their training is what has kept Mr. Hamlin alive so far.  

don’t need to be an expert at all to understand any of this, just have to be a sports fan/former player.  
 

people using this event as a means to push a political agenda, or advance their social media status by grifting, are just disgusting.  

Also, this is another example of the first to post superseding being the most accurate.

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

Any other possibilities?

Sure. He could have had an undetected rhythm disturbance which just chose that moment to manifest itself. Remember Hank Gaithers, the basketball player?

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17 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Sure. He could have had an undetected rhythm disturbance which just chose that moment to manifest itself. Remember Hank Gaithers, the basketball player?

Lawyer by day, ref in the evening, doctor as a hobby?

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30 minutes ago, temptation said:

Lawyer by day, ref in the evening, doctor as a hobby?

Medical malpractice lawyer for 35 years. Lots of cases involving cardiac arrests, arrhythmias, CPR, etc.

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29 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Medical malpractice lawyer for 35 years. Lots of cases involving cardiac arrests, arrhythmias, CPR, etc.

How dare you threaten the Mr. Know it All status of the self-proclaimed GID know it all.

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

Also, this is another example of the first to post superseding being the most accurate

agreed.  To me I think it’s just common sense….that being the most obvious thing is probably it and there isn’t much else to speculate on.


Damar Hamlin went for a tackle and elevated his arms exposing his chest.  Tee Higgins lowered his shoulder and ran into his chest.  The following events/symptoms/treatment align exactly with what doctors/bobref are saying is “Commotio cordis”  

looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, moves like a duck….it’s probably a duck 

obviously we will know more as this unfolds …there will certainly be an investigation…just think the obvious answer is probably the right one for this 

 

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

Lawyer by day, ref in the evening, doctor as a hobby?

Wow!  Either someone is still grumpy about the Michigan loss, or someone pissed in your Wheaties this morning.....

Is sharing some possibilities as to the cause of such a horrible event really that bad?

After all, this is a forum....and I've not known you to be shy about sharing your thoughts......

Edited by Bash Riprock
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3 hours ago, temptation said:

Gotcha.  Just love how everyone either becomes a medical expert or conveniently has an expert friend in the medical field all of a sudden.

My daughter is a Nurse Practitioner and my daughter-in-law is a Cardiac Nurse. But it didn’t happen all of a sudden. 

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37 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Wow!  Either someone is still grumpy about the Michigan loss, or someone pissed in your Wheaties this morning.....

Is sharing some possibilities as to the cause of such a horrible event really that bad?

After all, this is a forum....and I've not known you to be shy about sharing your thoughts......

Nah, @Bobrefmic dropped on me.

Just think that speculating a matter of life and death on social media is an irresponsible slippery slope.  I “share my thoughts” about sporting events…completely different.

That’s all.

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5 hours ago, Bobref said:

Since I posted that, I’ve spoken to a highly regarded athletic trainer I know. He related that there are a number of case studies of “commotio cordis” resulting from football contact. This is a condition where a sharp blow to a specific place, at a specific point in the heart’s rhythm, results in cardiac arrest. I was aware of cases involving baseball pitchers struck in the chest by a line drive, or a hockey player by a slap shot. So, it’s entirely possible that this routine looking tackle is what caused his arrest.

While rare this is not that uncommon in bat and ball sports. I seem to recall a 12-13 year old baseball player around Cincinnatti in the not so distant past. You hear of this stuff occasionally. 
If you’re a coach PLEASE GET YOUR CPR TRAINING! I was involved in an accident several years back, CPR within seconds and local police with a AED responded within 90 seconds. If your school does not have an AED at every athletic venue, urge them to do so. I think most trainers have them as part of their kit. 

Edited by Impartial_Observer
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1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

While rare this is not that uncommon in bat and ball sports. I seem to recall a 12-13 year old baseball player around Cincinnatti in the not so distant past. You hear of this stuff occasionally. 
If you’re a coach PLEASE GET YOUR CPR TRAINING! I was involved in an accident several years back, CPR within seconds and local police with a AED responded within 90 seconds. If your school does not have an AED at every athletic venue, urge them to do so. I think most trainers have them as part of their kit. 

As bad as this is for Demar, his family, and the Buffalo Bills…a lot of good like this is going to come out of this accident 
 

sometimes you see something on the news about it, or maybe someone explains why an AED is at a game of a random sport….but millions of people who love sports saw it live in action on primetime TV and it was probably one of the scariest things many have seen on live Tv.

now you can bet that every training staff for a sporting program is going to get a refresh on this training and coaches are definitely more aware of this risk.  Even the players are now aware.  
 

tl;dr 

As scary as this is and I hope that Mr Hamlin survives….there are going to be children whos lives are going to be saved because of this horrible accident. 

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2 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

As bad as this is for Demar, his family, and the Buffalo Bills…a lot of good like this is going to come out of this accident 
 

sometimes you see something on the news about it, or maybe someone explains why an AED is at a game of a random sport….but millions of people who love sports saw it live in action on primetime TV and it was probably one of the scariest things many have seen on live Tv.

now you can bet that every training staff for a sporting program is going to get a refresh on this training and coaches are definitely more aware of this risk.  Even the players are now aware.  
 

tl;dr 

As scary as this is and I hope that Mr Hamlin survives….there are going to be children whos lives are going to be saved because of this horrible accident. 

If you or your company is looking to donate some cash, the portable AED’s are not cheap.  After our accident, all athletic facilities are equipped with an AED and our trainer has one. 

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11 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Certainly but they are low probability and probably nothing to do with vaccines like some low IQ individuals on Twitter might think.

Probably? Meaning you don't know for sure?

What is the correlation between a person's IQ and their opinion of the vaccines? 

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I guess it was inevitable that the conversation would go down this path. The fact is there will be no way to tell if being vaccinated (if he was) had any impact on his current condition. What we do know is he was hit in the chest and within seconds, his heart stopped. Anything beyond that point is pure conjecture. My issue is this, regardless of what angle you take with vaccine conversations, they spiral out of control quickly and turn ugly. And once that conversation turns ugly, it seems others do as well, and people start making more and more ugly comments about each other. That is what got the original OOB shut down. My request is we stay focused on the fact that a young man is clinging to life and that alone in this topic. I REALLY hope this does not continue down that path. Those conversations occur in far too many other places in life as it is. 

As far as Damar goes, a standard protocol for cardiac arrest patients is to put them on oxygen/breathing tubes. He had been at 100% oxygen intake, and the family reports he is down the 50%. Hoping and praying that trend continues.  

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5 hours ago, Irishman said:

I guess it was inevitable that the conversation would go down this path. The fact is there will be no way to tell if being vaccinated (if he was) had any impact on his current condition. What we do know is he was hit in the chest and within seconds, his heart stopped. Anything beyond that point is pure conjecture. My issue is this, regardless of what angle you take with vaccine conversations, they spiral out of control quickly and turn ugly. And once that conversation turns ugly, it seems others do as well, and people start making more and more ugly comments about each other. That is what got the original OOB shut down. My request is we stay focused on the fact that a young man is clinging to life and that alone in this topic. I REALLY hope this does not continue down that path. Those conversations occur in far too many other places in life as it is. 

As far as Damar goes, a standard protocol for cardiac arrest patients is to put them on oxygen/breathing tubes. He had been at 100% oxygen intake, and the family reports he is down the 50%. Hoping and praying that trend continues.  

Honest question.  If it were actually found that the vaccine (or prior Covid infection for that matter) actually played a role in this event (no matter how small), do you think that information would be released to the public?

The NFLPA would have an absolute fit and a work stoppage would be possible.

Those people who are so quick to dismiss it concern me much more so than those who are entertaining the possibility.

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

Honest question.  If it were actually found that the vaccine (or prior Covid infection for that matter) actually played a role in this event (no matter how small), do you think that information would be released to the public?

The NFLPA would have an absolute fit and a work stoppage would be possible.

Those people who are so quick to dismiss it concern me much more so than those who are entertaining the possibility.

Ok…..so this is my only dive down this rabbit hole. Exactly how would it be determined that the vaccine or even covid was a factor in what happened? What tests exist to make that determination? 
 

Don’t misinterpret my post though. I am NOT dismissing anything. The fact is people from every angle have very strong opinions. This topic has given a glimpse of what has happened to every other topic where the vaccine or the virus are mentioned. Want to start a topic exploring the impact of covid and/or the vaccine on athletes? No problem with that. My concern is that either of the two became the focal point of so many topics since it started. And as I said, it was getting uglier with each post. I am just not a fan of seeing it happen here. 

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15 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Ok…..so this is my only dive down this rabbit hole. Exactly how would it be determined that the vaccine or even covid was a factor in what happened? What tests exist to make that determination? 
 

Don’t misinterpret my post though. I am NOT dismissing anything. The fact is people from every angle have very strong opinions. This topic has given a glimpse of what has happened to every other topic where the vaccine or the virus are mentioned. Want to start a topic exploring the impact of covid and/or the vaccine on athletes? No problem with that. My concern is that either of the two became the focal point of so many topics since it started. And as I said, it was getting uglier with each post. I am just not a fan of seeing it happen here. 

You are asking the wrong guy.  I don’t play a doctor on the internet.

 I mean modern medicine is pretty damn amazing and if I had to guess I would imagine a control group of athletes in a specific age group who had not had the virus/vaccine vs a separate group who had had one or both would be a good starting place.

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