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Special treatment? Why is Cathedral dropping to 4A?

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Bobref said:

New Pal has been very, very good for awhile. 74-4 over the last 6 seasons. You do know they could elect to play up a class for better competition? Why do you think they haven’t done that? Easier trophies?

 

Not sure you can do that.  You can elect to stay in a class, but not elect to play up.  Maybe you can, but nobody has ever done it.

Electing to play up a class won't change their conference, which fits every other sport nicely.  They are already playing up a class, as they should be in 4A by enrollment.  5A has been very competitive for them.  And they are a public school.

My point is this, Cathedral views themselves (as they should) as an elite football program.  I've just never understood the mentality to then "play down" when given the chance.

Edited by CaptainHook

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Actually a school or two have elected to play up, just can't remember exactly who.  I believe it was a private/parochial in the Indy area.  Ritter maybe or Brebeuf?  

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, johnathanspencer said:

Actually a school or two have elected to play up, just can't remember exactly who.  I believe it was a private/parochial in the Indy area.  Ritter maybe or Brebeuf?  

They elected to stay in a class when they could have moved down. 

As far as I know, it’s only happened once in football. Merillville? I think?

Edited by CaptainHook

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It was Mishawaka in 2015.  When Columbus East and New Palestine bumped up to 5A, Mishawaka could have gone down to 4A.  They chose to stay in 5A.  To my knowledge, that is the only football team that has stayed in a higher class when they cold have dropped to a lower class.

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In the early 2000’s Ritter or Scecina elected to play “up” in 2A with 1A enrollment. That caused Seeger to be bumped down to 1A where they were a state champion and state runner up back to back years. 

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Well this is odd. Snider is being placed back in 6A due to the changes. Apparently, the IHSAA is going to redo sectional alignments. This article does not say who else is affected, but does say more schools than just Snider will be impacted.

https://outsidethehuddle.net/2019/06/14/ihsaa-rules-change-bumps-snider-football-back-to-class-6a/?fbclid=IwAR0SkrQJvD9JgnoHvNmYJ7cKw9QaeJzoGPPnMx6jcGO2mrcZfCQV9YBi_T8

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I heard a story yesterday this was going to happen.  To go along with that Cathedral will be in 5A and BNL dropped to 4A.  Interesting.

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7 hours ago, slice60 said:

All I can say is "You're welcome, everybody."

 

 

Funny how some things take years and this took weeks.   No board should ever let this happen.  Reeks of rot at the top. 

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21 hours ago, Major said:

In the early 2000’s Ritter or Scecina elected to play “up” in 2A with 1A enrollment. That caused Seeger to be bumped down to 1A where they were a state champion and state runner up back to back years. 

Sorry, I was talking about in the Tournament Success Factor Era.

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On 6/14/2019 at 10:23 PM, Irishman said:

Well this is odd. Snider is being placed back in 6A due to the changes. Apparently, the IHSAA is going to redo sectional alignments. This article does not say who else is affected, but does say more schools than just Snider will be impacted.

https://outsidethehuddle.net/2019/06/14/ihsaa-rules-change-bumps-snider-football-back-to-class-6a/?fbclid=IwAR0SkrQJvD9JgnoHvNmYJ7cKw9QaeJzoGPPnMx6jcGO2mrcZfCQV9YBi_T8

Let me ask the dumb question. Is the IHSAA only doing realignments for the 4A through 6A sectionals or every class?

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Posted (edited)

To me, you apply the new rule going forward, after this two year cycle concluded.  Or you apply it to all teams as this cycle concludes (which doesn't make much sense to me).  What you can't do, is what they did, and apply it to some and not others.  

Edited by CaptainHook

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On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 7:40 AM, Robert said:

Funny how some things take years and this took weeks.   No board should ever let this happen.  Reeks of rot at the top. 

I would agree with that statement 100%. Every word of it.

However, I do like the new rule. If a team is good enough to call themselves sectional champions (Snider), why would they go down a class? If a team is good enough to call themselves regional champions (Cathedral), why would they go down a class. This new rule is good for the game. But why wasn't it implemented for the NEXT cycle? Robert is right, normally something like this takes years to change, not weeks.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

That probably pushes Valpo down to 5a    

and the consolidated Elkhart school moves up in a year? and Zionsville moves down?

Edited by CaptainHook

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On 5/22/2019 at 10:32 AM, Coach Nowlin said:

That by-law change had ZERO to do with Cathedral going to 4a.

Cathedral is in 4a because they did not earn enough points to stay in 6a, so they dropped down to 5a, also did not earn enough points to stay in 5a, so in this classification cycle, they were placed in the class per their enrollment. 

 

 

I don't believe they were ever fully in 6A. 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, TrueWarrior06 said:

I don't believe they were ever fully in 6A. 

What? They played in 6A in the 2015 and 2016 seasons. The won sectional championships both years, however, at the time 3 points was necessary to stay up in a class. So yeah... Cathedral was "fully" in 6A.

image.thumb.png.c77c782843f054d36ec339f781a1493e.png

Edited by NLCTigerFan07
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my mistake. I was assuming they'd be in the same sectional with Warren and the Lawrence schools. Who was their sectional made up of?

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8 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

That probably pushes Valpo down to 5a    

Why would Valpo move down to 5A?? They had just as many success points as Snider did I believe??

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Why would Valpo move down to 5A?? They had just as many success points as Snider did I believe??

As far as I know, Tournament Success Factor points have no bearing in the top class. They will move down strictly on enrollment numbers. They would be the smallest non-TSF in 6A. If FW Snider stays in 6A, that bumps Valpo down. 6A is capped at 32 teams. Although your point is valid....

Edited by CaptainHook
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11 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

As far as I know, Tournament Success Factor points have no bearing in the top class. They will move down strictly on enrollment numbers. They would be the smallest non-TSF in 6A. If FW Snider stays in 6A, that bumps Valpo down. 6A is capped at 32 teams. Although your point is valid....

I think Valpo is bigger than Snider, so I'm not quite understanding why snider stays with lower enrollment number and same points earned. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I think Valpo is bigger than Snider, so I'm not quite understanding why snider stays with lower enrollment number and same points earned. 

Because Snider doesn't have a choice, as they were bumped up and forced to remain due to TSF.  Again, I don't think that applies to teams already in 6A due to enrollment numbers.

Edited by CaptainHook

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6 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

Because Snider doesn't have a choice, as they were bumped up and forced to remain due to TSF.  Again, I don't think that applies to teams already in 6A due to enrollment numbers.

OK, I guess that makes sense? Was really hoping for Snider vs New Pal rematch in Indy this November. Implying that Snider got past Dwenger in Sectional.

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